Hi, I'm new to MB. I am 45 MM with a 44 yr old wife. We have been married for 22 years with two boys, 16 and 12. I confronted my WS in mid-Nov after catching her in the other room one morning at around 5:00am in an intimate phone conversation with the OM whom she had met on an Internet game site and with whom she had been carrying on an online affair for around 5 months, she later admitted. She said my D-Day was actually like a "wake-up call" to her because she had become addicted to the Internet and infatuated with the OM, and needed to be rescued but was powerless to stop on her own. She later admitted she was making preparations to divorce me and had talked about the logistics of physically meeting the OM after we separated. Needless to say, I was devastated by the A because she concealed it so cleverly, betrayed my trust, and I didn't think her remotely capable of doing such a thing because she had always been a good wife, mother, and strong in her Christian faith. I was obviously out of touch with her feelings. In retrospect, there were some signs I misread that could have clued me in sooner, like her not wanting to make love anymore (she had developed a strong sex drive around age 40) and an aloofness to me in general. Since D-Day, our marriage has experienced more or less a "second honeymoon" in terms of our sexual relationship, sharing of feelings, and overall affection, which were all areas in which she felt dissatisfied, she admits. She says that living with me now is like living with the husband she always wanted, which was how I was in the early years of our marriage. I admit I had taken her somewhat for granted the last couple of years, especially after she had gained a lot of weight and became less physically attractive to me, and so I feel I was partially to blame for the A. I apologized to her for this and told her I would never take her for granted again and that I love her no matter what she looks like. Nevertheless, it doesn't excuse her crossing the line into an online affair. My problem now is that everything will be going fine between us for several days, then all of a sudden something will trigger in my mind (like a news report on TV from the OM's home city, etc) and I will start grilling her with questions about the OM and the A, and it definitely ruins the mood for the rest of the day. Since she seems to genuinely want to restore our marriage and so do I, my questions of curiosity to you fine folks are the following:

1) Are my feelings normal or am I crazy to be feeling ok one moment and traumatized the next? I have never felt this way in my life.

2) How do I know her feelings are genuine toward me now or whether she is acting out of guilt because she doesn't want to risk losing the kids in a custody battle if we were to divorce? I feel she is being genuine but I really don't know anymore, if you know what I mean.

3) Is it wrong to keep asking questions about the OM and their relationship? I suspect she may have met the guy in person when the boys and I were on a short family vacation this summer during the peak of her A. She suspiciously begged off from the family trip at the last minute due to a recurring mild illness. She uncharacteristically asked us not to call her for a couple of days while she "recovered" and had the phone off the hook. I was unable to reach her two days. After D-Day, she confided to having phone sex etc with the OM during this time, who lives several hundreds of miles away, but my imagination tells me it may have been a physical meeting, because I read where a physical meeting is usually the next step in an online affair after phone sex and before divorce arrangements are made, and this would have been a golden opportunity to physically meet since we were out of state visiting my relatives. Nevertheless, she still insists she never met the guy in person and says it pains her that I don't believe her.

4) I am tempted to email the OM (I found his email id in a list of her "buddies") in hopes he would confess as to whether they ever met in person. Do you advise such a communication between me and the OM? I feel torn up on the inside until my suspicions are definitively confirmed or refuted.

*** Thank you very much for having a support site such as this because I was feeling like I had to suffer alone until I ran into your site. ***

Sounds alot like my WW but mine went to the next step and slept with the OM. It's been 5 months and my wife says she doesnt think of the OM at all ever. Says im the only man she ever wanted etc. etc. Problem is i will never forget (haunts me every day). Your lucky you caught it before it went physical, but understanding that she 100% would have and that memory will always be with you forever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

"Recover" isnt the word you need to think about, It simply wont happen like that. Coming to grips with the fact that your wife wasnt and isnt exactly the person you thought she was is the best way to deal with the situation (my oppinion).

My wife is 60% of the woman i thought she was, i cant tell if im going to be happy with her yet, time will tell.

Forgot.. Yes, i would contact the OM and i did in my case. You really need to know the truth about the physical aspects if any and warn him to stay away from your wife, if you still want your wife. You will never be able to trust your wife unless you know the truth. I would think your wife did meet him and sleep with him by the way you explained it. Remember.. that your wife can lie to you easier then you can possibly imagine, she wanted or wants the OM more then anything in the world and would risk everything she has for just one night with him. You want to believe her but she really cant be trusted with anything she says or does. All this doesnt mean you cant live a "semi-normal life" if she decides to act like a human being again, it will just be different and less meaningful.

<small>[ December 27, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Bog ]</small>

Thanks for the reply, Bog. I am sorry to hear you went through a similar circumstance but am glad to hear I am not alone and that you are doing your best to deal with it. About the OM..... How did you contact him? By phone? In person? How were you able to get the information without fighting the urge to read him the riot act?

<small>[ December 30, 2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: lions1957 ]</small>

lions...so sorry that you've been forced into seeking out this type of site...but you've found a good one so please, read all that is available here, take from it what may benefit you and your marriage.

To answer your questions:

1. YES! This isn't called a rollercoaster for nothing. We can jump from one emotion to another in a heartbeat, without ever being aware that we are jumping until we have. ie. saddness to rage.

2. Likely your W's emotions toward you are indeed genuine. The emotions she felt for this OM were the fantasy. jmho

3a. If you need questions answered, then that's what you need. It isn't wrong or right. You do what you must to began your healing path.

3b. I can understand why you would be suspicious of what might have happened during this time of the family vacation where you were not in contact with your W. As to what happened, only she knows. Is there anyway that you can find someone who might have seen her or talked to her AT HOME during this time? Until this is resolved to YOUR satisfaction, it's going to be hard to began healing. It's a sad fact that without proof, most WS will deny as much as possible and downplay their affairs.

4. Contacting the OM would be the last option I would try. But, you may have no other choice when looking to discover the truth of that time. If you do contact him...I'd go from the idea that you already know that they saw each other, and see what his reply is....if any. I NEVER think it's a good idea to contact the OP, but it's up to you.

Thanks, Wifey. I appreciate the female perspective on my situation and the good advice. It makes sense. I am still pondering what to do regarding whether to contact the OM or not. I feel like I may need to because I suspect my W still hasn't come totally clean, but our lives appear to be "back to normal" otherwise, and I truly feel our relationship is on the road to recovery if I can only get over the hurdle of objectively knowing whether she and the OM ever met in person. She cannot prove she was at home the days the boys and I were on vacation (her word only), but I cannot prove she wasn't there either. I cannot find a way to tactfully ask family and friends if she contacted them on those days back in August without risking them asking why I want to know (I'm not that clever), and I don't want them to know about the A at this time, or maybe ever. Thanks again for responding to me. I appreciate it very much.

I am always in favor of contacting the OP. I would advise, like Wifey did, to act as if you already know the particulars. For instance, you tell him you couldn't understand why your wife's illness would stop her from going on a vacation with the family and then to find out it was because she was with him, having sex, that it was hurtful. At this point, he'll either say (or write, depending on if you email him) that "we never had sex!" or "yes, well, she said she really wanted to meet me and that would be the best time....." You get the idea.

Until you feel like your wife has been completely honest, your suspicions will continue to nag you and healing will be difficult. Areyou arranging any marital counseling? That would be helpful, too.

Thanks, Snowbelle. I might just do that. I will have to do it by email or phone, though after I know I am calm and collected enough to do it, because I might not be able to control my anger otherwise if I saw him in person, and I know that violence is not a constructive way to deal with this issue. Thanks again.

Well, I contacted OM by email around New Year's and it was bittersweet. On the positive side, I found out from OM there was no physical meeting with my WW although he was pressuring her to meet. On the negative side, it re-opened wounds that were in the process of mending. Also, apparently my WW had told him very negative things about me (some true, most untrue) and this hurt alot when I learned of them. I would not recommend contacting the OM to anyone, although in my case I just had to know whether my WW and OM ever met in person. It has been over 2 months since DDay and my wife is still doing all the right things (making my favorite meals, being affectionate, reassuring me, etc). She even discontinued our home internet service shortly after the EA since she said she was addicted to the Internet (I am emailing from a public library). However, now she is talking about wanting the Internet back on our home pc. She says its for the kids to help them with homework, etc, and that she is over her previous Internet addiction. On the one hand I want to show I trust her by letting her get the Internet back, but I don't know if I am ready for this yet, since this was the way in which she met OM in the first place (Gaming Zone). Am I wrong for wanting to take it slow? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dear Lion,

Our situations and d-days are nearly identical. I contacted the OW, RIGHT AFTER I caught H arguing with her on the IM at 2 am. I managed to make it through the conversation without cussing her, but yes, H had been dogging me to her for some time. They met while gaming as well. This is a shattering discovery, and you are right to take things slow. It's a long way back and you must completely redesign your marriage.

First off, I read in one of your earlier posts that you felt you were partly to blame for her affair. Please remember, it was *her* choice to take her affections elsewhere. No one is ever justified in cheating on their spouse. As far as your reaction goes, I read a report that said the effects of an A on the BS are the same as post traumatic stress syndrome. I was so relieved in a way when I read that because I thought I was losing my mind! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Please take care of your health and be sure to eat. (I lost 15 pounds)

You will need to be understanding and forgiving with your W, but don't cut her too much slack or be too willing to overlook her faults in this area. She needs to earn your trust again, and that will only come with time.

I pray that things will improve for you and your M. Stay in the Word, and read all you can about this from sources that honor honesty, responsibility and marriage, not divorce. Don't give up, and remember WHY you are fighting the good fight.

Blessings!

BTW, Lion, I forgot to mention, tell her that IM and gaming are FORBIDDEN, and there is no other time on the computer, except when others are in the room. I told my H in no uncertain terms that I would tolerate NO FURTHER CONTACT whatsoever, so he changed his email address, cell #, blocked his IM (she was contacting him while he was using it at work). There is spyware you can install to insure she is walking the straight and narrow. Sounds drastic, but if she's really interested in saving the marriage, she won't complain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

lions...while the information you received wasn't all that you might have liked...you did get the biggest question answered to your satisfaction. I think I'd focus on that fact. They never met! Likely, considering internet affairs...they both would have been sadly disappointed if they had, but best that it never happened at all. Few internet relationships are based on who the other person really is...too much fantasy built into these monitors. jmho

The fact that your W told him things that weren't true about you and the state of your marriage is pretty normal. Sad isn't it? But the WS is trying to justify to themselves what they are doing...they KNOW they are doing something which is wrong and want to mess with the facts and decrease their guilt. It's pretty much what many here call the infamous "fog". Not pleasant...but expected in betrayals.

Glad that you and your W are doing fairly well day to day...this is still awfully new for you...sounds like you are both really trying. Have you started counseling yet??? You really should consider it, if you haven't.

As for reconnecting the internet...If I were you...and I'm not...but I'd discuss with her that we could get the internet reconnected BUT that it would include a keylogger so that if at any time EITHER of you felt the need to see what has been going on...you would look at it together! (Have to admit...I'd want to be the "keeper of the password".) This would also give you as parents a good way of controling and knowing where your children are going on the internet...something of major concern today. (I wouldn't inform the children! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

The computer would be one area of our lives that would have to be completely open to the other. This goes for you being willing to let her see whatever you done and said on the computer, too. NO PRIVACY on the computer...might even work with the kids on second thought.

Good Luck!

Thanks Ejosef and Wifey for the good advice. When the subject about the Internet comes up again, I will mention to her that I will agree to Internet only with the condition a keylogger is installed. As you said, she shouldn't have a problem with it if she is being genuine with me that she is over her addiction. I definitely don't have a problem with a keylogger. I find that my love for her and my desire to be the best husband I can for her are greater than ever before, but the level of trust is only improving at a snail's pace, and the hurt is still profound. Is this normal? BTW, she recently wrote me a note that I'd like to share with you. Does it sound like someone who is genuinely over the OM?:

Dear Tom,
"I've recently had a lot of time to think. Realizing my mother is very sick and may die soon has made me re-evaluate my life. I truly believe God led you to (our college name where we met) to find me. You are the best thing to have ever happened to me outside of my relationship with Christ. Thank you for loving me unconditionally. I truly love you with all my heart. You are the only man for me. You are my true soulmate. I pray that God will let us live long lives together, after raising two godly young men. I am yours, beloved, and you are mine. There are no words that can express how much I love you."

I thought the note was genuine and heartfelt and it means alot to me, because I share the same desires for our marriage and family. Little does she know I am still haunted by things she told me in the days shortly after D-Day, like when I asked her how she broke off EA with OM. Two days after D-Day she responded by telling me she ended EA with OM by telling him (her words) "You've been a great friend and we've had a lot of fun together. Are you (OM) going to be OK?"

She now says that OM was a scoundrel who specializes in taking advantage of vulnerable married women over the Internet to sexually exploit them, but I am bothered by the fact she never told him this in person and that she had been an active participant in the phone sex and chatrooms, with her initiating the majority of phone calls (OM is divorced).

Since she ended EA 6 weeks ago, she doesn't want to send him a note or anything because she said "it is over and I don't want to think about him anymore" and "it would only give him hope again if I contacted him". I believe that she is over OM, but I believe my own healing may take longer than I expected due to memories like this. I may also seek out counseling. Please advise, and thanks for being there for me.

YES! Completely normal. Trust takes a LONG time to return and the pain often comes in waves, you think you've rounded a corner only to discover you're right back where you were before.

Her note to you did indeed sound as if it came from her heart. Keep up this type of communication...it's healthy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She now says that OM was a scoundrel
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's out of the fog and realizes that internet affairs are almost always about self and that what is on the other side of the monitor is not what we "see". She's admitted to herself that she built up the man into someone she fantasized about, not who he really was. She sees him for the "troller" he is. This is good.

While you might not have liked her way of ending the contact with this man...she did end it. Keep that in mind. I would NOT want her to do so over the phone, in person, whatever...she's already started NC...do NOT break it in anyway.

Please do seek out counseling, this is hard and having someone who is not emotionally connected to you both can be a safety net from making missteps. While a counselor isn't the only answer they can be a valuable tool in helping you rebuild your trust, faith, and marriage. Since you both seem to have a solid foundation in your faith, a priest/minister might offer you real help.

Good Luck!

Hi Lions.

I'm sorry that this happened to you. My husband became addicted on line A and had PA with many of them. I found a lot of email addresses, and had plenty of confessions from the OW. Now, there was one of them that I was able to get a phone number for. She is married also. I called her house to show her that I had her number. I told her that if she ever had contact with my WH again, I would inform her husband. This was a 5-year on and off again A. What scared me the most was the friendship they developed. Needless to say, I believe she will be avoiding him at all cost.

He is being very honest with me about everything now. Our relationship is improving, but I still find myself having a difficult time with trust. I also have plenty of triggers. I can't watch a movie where affairs are concerned.

It also helps me to know that he is a sex addict. This helps me because I can reason as to why he did it. The women were what he replaced alcohol and drugs with. He's in recovery now. So am I, I'm going to Alanon. Every day gets just a little better. We still have our fights, and believe it or not... he has a tendency to throw his affairs up in my face, just a way to hurt me when he's angry. But, it's getting better.

I suggest contacting the OM. Finding the truth has helped me getting through this. At first, it will be like adding salt to the wound. But afterwards, I found that having the truth was well worth it.

Sorry i didnt gread your post again. I contacted him by phone and email, he is from norway i am from the U.S.A. so meeting him face to was kind of difficult. he didnt know my wife was married so i rationally could speak to him, i am a calm person. Where i got violent was when he was still making advances, then i threatend his life. He was a liar and lying to me that he wouldnt contact her made me even more irrational and violent. I have been violent to my wife and go into rages somtimes but im getting better.. Its normal to want to know about the OM. What kind of a person can accept their wife sleeping with strangers or having any kind of outside relationship? I wouldnt be a man or a good husband if i could roll over so easy. Just my oppinion, many think im wrong but im who i am.

Had a good talk with W last night. Very positive. I told her that I am still struggling with the issue of trust. She agreed she needs to earn my trust again and promised to be an open book in terms of honesty and faithfulness, including letting me see detailed phone bills for her cell phone, credit cards, etc that she used to hide from me during EA. I admit I was naive and trusted her totally, which is probably why I was so devastated on D-Day. She also used prepaid phone cards to call OM from home when I wasn't around and I don't know how to double-check these. Anyone know how to do this? No big deal, just curious. BTW, she said she won't bring up the topic of getting Internet reinstated anymore because she knows it is still a sore subject with me. She said she would rather have me than the Internet and she will wait until I am ready, and it's ok if I never decide to reinstate it, although she assured me she would never go gaming again. I told her I am still bothered by images in my mind of her pleasuring herself with OM on the phone and in chatrooms. She reassured me how wrong it was of her to do it and she wishes it had never happened, especially since it caused me and our boys so much pain and is against God's commandments (our boys don't know the details, just that Mom and Dad argued alot for a number of days after D-Day). She feels ashamed by it and didn't realize she had gotten so addicted until it was too late. She finally confessed to me what made her cross over the line into online sex and occasional phone sex with OM... She said she finally gave in to the persistence of OM after a few months of blocking his advances because she believed I (the hubby) was only concerned about my own needs in our sexual relationship and not hers, whereas OM was all too eager to meet her needs sexually, so he finally wore down her defenses (she thought I would never change). I told her there is no valid reason for her crossing the line, and she responded she has always had problems with "proper boundaries" with men ever since she was sexually abused by family members when she was a young girl, including her father, and felt the only way she could get a male's approval was through pleasing him sexually. I never knew she had problems with boundaries before, since she had never shown signs of unfaithfulness before in our 22 yr marriage. Ironically, her online affair started around the same time her therapist told her she needed to quit spending so much time worrying about pleasing others and spend more time on making herself happy. Needless to say, I think the advice backfired or she misinterpreted it, because I suspect the therapist's words helped her justify her A. For my part, even though I am still somewhat of a rookie at it, I have concentrated more on meeting her sexual needs when we make love, and she says our sexual relationship is more satisfying than ever. However, if she had only told me we had a problem to begin with I would have tried to fix what was wrong, but I never knew there was a problem. I know I can be a little dense (I'm a guy what can I say - some of us have male pattern deafness, lol) but I generally respond well to a little honesty and openness you know... Thanks again for everyone's help and advice, especially you, Wifey. You've been a great help to me during these hard times. Bog, I hope you will seek out more constructive ways to vent your anger at your wife. Physically abusing your wife under any circumstances is not appropriate in my view, even though I understand why you are angry. In my view, you should either decide to stay in your M and do your best to work things out without violence or you should separate. You shouldn't make a habit of abusing her physically or verbally, especially if she is genuinely repentant. It doesn't do you, her, or your M any good (jmho) . Thanks again everyone. I feel I have turned the corner now. Like a death in the family, I know things won't ever be the same and I will always feel the pain of betrayal, but hopefully time and a restored relationship with a faithful wife will lessen my hurt through the passage of time.

The only way to found out what number your wife dialed using an calling card is
1 Getting an hold on the used calling card and request an detailed form with the # s dialed.
2 Call your phone company and request the same thing
3 Or install an phone recorder on your phone line in the basement witch will trigger the recording as soon somebody picks up the phone they are not expensive around 50 - 60$ and can record one hour of phone conversation on an 30 min tape side.

Sounds like the lines of communication are open and that is one of the most important steps in all of this. While betrayals are never easy to overcome, of any kind...they can be overcome with honest effort on from both parties.

I can't answer your question about calling cards...but what L&D posted sounds like it would work. I do know that you can ask your local phone carrier to give you an itemized list of all calls, local and long distance...I would assume that call card numbers would show up, but do not know for certain.

If it's a concern, then having a recording might work, if you feel this is a real need for your trust to be regained. (Personally, I hope that you don't need this, but if you do...then do what you must.)

While you may well feel as if you've turned a corner...and you actually have, don't be discourage if you take a lot of backsteps and seem to end up back around that same corner. Hope this doesn't happen, but do realize that it can and not feel as if you and your W are failing in your rebuilding. There will be a LOT of mistakes which the two of you will make during rebuilding. We don't get a blueprint with all the fine print listed, we make errors, we say things best left unsaid, we are NOT perfect. We continue to hurt those we love by word and deed, but you keep the committment to be better each day, to avoid the mistakes you made yesterday and continue on. That's what a true marriage is all about.

God speed on your healing path!

Over the weekend, while sharing together during a safe, loving moment, W confessed that she had had cybersexual relationships, including phone sex, with other men besides the one OM she had told me about previously. All of that stopped at D-Day, for which I am very happy since there has been NC since then. I had suspected this (other email ids in her buddy list that sounded like men ids) but I couldn't prove any illicit activity. When I asked her why she hadn't told me before, she said it was because she was ashamed and didn't want me to think she had become some sort of Internet slut or something. In reality she had become addicted to her Internet world and wanted the attention she wasn't getting at home, and this behavior allowed her to be the center of attention with the guys so she was drawn to it. Now that she is out of the "fog", she is embarassed and horrified she could have done such a thing and said it was like watching another person... Part of me feels worse with this new revelation, especially that she waited so long to tell me (nearly 3 months), but in a sense I feel relieved to know she was addicted and swallowed up by her online world rather than truly in love with OM and OMen. Would be curious what you think about my W's new revelation, and what this says about about how I should be treating her. I am also glad to know she is now being mentored by some of her girlfriends at church who are more mature than she is and they have been helping her since D-Day. These ladies apparently suspected something was up during EA and confronted her in private at that time but her response at the time was total defiance.

Over the weekend, while sharing together during a safe, loving moment, W confessed that she had had cybersexual relationships, including phone sex, with other men besides the one OM she had told me about previously. All of that stopped at D-Day, for which I am very happy since there has been NC since then. I had suspected this (other email ids in her buddy list that sounded like men ids) but I couldn't prove any illicit activity. When I asked her why she hadn't told me before, she said it was because she was ashamed and didn't want me to think she had become some sort of Internet slut or something. In reality she had become addicted to her Internet world and wanted the attention she wasn't getting at home, and this behavior allowed her to be the center of attention with the guys so she was drawn to it. Now that she is out of the "fog", she is embarassed and horrified she could have done such a thing and said it was like watching another person... Part of me feels worse with this new revelation, especially that she waited so long to tell me (nearly 3 months), but in a sense I feel relieved to know she was addicted and swallowed up by her online world rather than truly in love with OM and OMen. Would be curious what you think about my W's new revelation, and what this says about about how I should be treating her. I am also glad to know she is now being mentored by some of her girlfriends at church who are more mature than she is and they have been helping her since D-Day. These ladies apparently suspected something was up during EA and confronted her in private at that time but her response at the time was total defiance.