I talked with our pastor tonight. I had to talk to him after I was unable to corraborate her story about being at a particular female friend's house. She brought up a lot of things that I had done for good cause when you look at the entire picture but woefully lacked merit when looked at from her very narrow perspective. No, I am not trying to justify my actions. I made the decision and stick by it. However, even knowing what I know now, those decisions would not be any different. Yes, I would try a different presentation.<P>Pastor told me that he could not do what I am doing knowing that she is still in contact with OM who is a boy (yes, this is a slam and a fact, he is 30 and she is 35.) He told me he thought I would contradict myself when I was talking to him. On several occasions I know this was true because he wouldn't let me finish everything I had to say. Plus, there were those times when I was incoherent because of the rage I had at the moment. He now believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am telling him the truth. I suspect he may not talk to her again because she lied to him. I am going to continue my sessions with him because I told him that I plan on doing what God is directing me to do: love her unconditionally. He wants to help me stay accountable to God as I work through this ordeal.<P>I told him that I plan on using this as a tool to teach our boys what I have learned the hard way about relationships so that they will have a better chance at avoiding this than I did. I know I won't be able to protect them completely. But, they will be better equipped to make their marriage work, should they decide to get married, than did their parents.<P>No, I am not giving up. I am getting us out of debt so that I can shower her with the gifts that she feels she deserves. I want her to know that God sent at leastone human in her life who had her best interest in mind. I know I sound like the martyr. But it has nothing to do with me looking good in anyone's eyes. I want to be the obedient child that loves his heavenly Father. It is God who has worked His work through me. I am merely His humble and obedient child. He gets all the glory, honor, and praise.<P>I was accused of following her the other night and taking one of the tires off her car. Why would I do such a thing? I gain nothing by doing such a stupid thing. She will be saved because God has told me that she is going to be saved. I am going to die before it happens. Though I won't get to see it in this part of life, I will get to see her in the rest of our existence with God. I want her to know that God sent me to show her physically the love that comes only from Him. With out Him I would never have been able to endure what I have endured and what I continue to endure.<P>I now know why God kept my parents together. He wanted me to see a parent, my mother, make a sacrifice. Though my mother has endured my fathers affairs, she has also had an affair. She told me about it this past Saturday. It drove a stake right through my heart. I wanted to throw up after I thought about it after getting off the phone. My mother did it because she didn't want my sisters to be raised by a step-father she was. She was molested by her step-father and her mother didn't believe her. My W went through a similar situation. My W and my mother are closer to their grandmothers than they are their mothers.<P>I understand the pain that this can cause when one wants to be closer to the person who birth you. It goes hand in hand with the love thng we crave so much. I want to give my W what God has shown me. She will eventually see that God is the one who was loving her through me.<P>There is no greater love that I can give her nor a greater praise than to call her His gift to me. She has been and still is His gift to me because I have grown much closer to Him because of her actions. He is letting me know daily that I am doing what He wants me to do.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Rob,<P>What a story...<P>You are a man of great faith. Your faith is and will continue to carry you through this ordeal...<P>You are setting a good example to your kids of prayerfulness and trying to do the right thing by your W. I pray that she can see your determination to make things right between you two and your desire to truly make her happy.<P>Praying for you...<P>Roll me Away<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Thanks RMA.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Hi Rob! <P>Just trying to get some background understanding here: Is your W a Christian? is she "as Christian" as you (as in "extra devout")? <P>Thanks for praying for my soul the other day - I could feel the love. <P>Perhaps we can both pray my h's OW & your W's OM gets a life and moves away and leaves us alone....<P>Peace<P>

KarmaGrrl,<BR>I thought she was when I met her and would have sworn that she was by her behavior during the first 8 years of our marriage. However, the last 6 years have shown me a side that I didn't know existed. I have found that everyone who professes is not necessarily saved. The Bible says that you will know a tree by its fruit. There are those who would say that I am judging her. I would agree only in that I am judging her fruit to ascertain whether she is the real McCoy or not. My decree is NOT. <P>Yet, she won't leave me because shedoesn't want to be the unbeliever. I told her that she would because of the associated scripture. She thinks by staying with me that she is in God's will. Just because you don't leave a believer doesn't make you a believer. You must give your life in total over to Him. I know that doing this feels unnatural because it is for me also. I just know that I have perfect peace, joy, and happiness in Him even though I am in a great deal of emotional pain.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Ok, so as my imsomniac'd mind understands it, she's a believer, won't leave you because she's a Christian, and isn't necessarily considered a good Christian in your opinion because of her fruit (her actions)? <P>Have you always been an "avid, rabid" Christian since the beginning of your marriage?<P>Lemme try again...if you are **more devout** than your W, ie - you speak in God-language in "real life" like you do on this board - read the Bible more than she does, pray more than she does - then with all due respect...mellow out. <P>If you're "Godlier" than she is - it's a turn off to her. It's called being a Holy Roller and it's wonderful and all that when it's mutual.<P>Sorry to be blunt. I'm not saying to turn your back on your beliefs or deny them! But like any kind of passion, it's possible to go overboard. <P>I'm just saying it like, suppose you loved classic cars. You obsessed over them, loved them, collected them, talked about them, attended meetings to talk about them with other classic car collectors, read classic car magazines and books, and your W does not share your enthusiasm equally - just goes along for the ride, so to speak, she's bored to tears. You need a new hobby - something you both can share. You don't have to get rid of your cars, but perhaps expand your repetoire and talk cars with your car friends, talk of other things with your W. <P>Especially, and I'm sorry if I'm assuming, if you're using your religion to shame her and make her feel bad, either directly or indirectly.<P>I don't mean to slam your religiousness, just your enthusiasm. You can be a good servant and be mellower at the same time. <P>Being a zealot about anything is too much when the other person isn't thrilled with your obsession. <P> <P><BR>

KarmaGrrl,<BR>I hear what you are saying but that is not her problem in total. I am sure it is part of her problem but only a tiny part.<P>My W is a control freak. Her need to control comes from being sexually abused as a child and not having the support that she needed. Read the following to get additional perspective:<A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb922/" TARGET=_blank>When Trust Is Lost</A>.<P>My W has experienced things in ways that are unique to her and her way of coping with those things was to create a fantasy world that is in direct opposition to the world that God has created. I don't say anything to her about it now. I have backed off. Right now I want her to make a decision. I don't want her leaching off me which is what I feel. yes, I do feel just like everyone else. I try to feel after I know I have done the right thing because the feeling is much more intense than those we work off in most cases. yes, I do blow up and lose it sometimes.<P>What you suggest I have done off and on since the very first affair. I keep praying and doing the things that God wants me to do. I have gotten to the point that I don't want to go home because I don't want to talk to her or see her because it tears me apart to know how this is affecting our boys. She is doing the same things that her mother did to her which really chafes (sp). I can only be there to comfort them where she had no one except for her grandmother who let her do almost anything she wanted. I started out doing that until I found that it was not working. It was then that I started correcting her about her behavior as it relates to God. I have now come full circle to trying the letting her have her way thing again.<P>I know you are providing me advice and that is how it is taken. I am looking for new ways to present the same package. No one knows everything thus the need for interaction as we have here. Yes, 95 - 98% of the time my walk is much like my talk. I do have my moments when I sin. I am not perfect. Jesus was the only perfect man because He was and still is God.<P>You are right about being a zealot. I know that I don't always get the balance right but anything taken into extreme is a sin. I am not taking Him to the extreme. I only want to be the obedient child that He wants me to be.<P>Mondo Hug!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 16, 1999).]

Ok, so what you're saying is your W has unresolved childhood issues stemming from sexual abuse that has caused her to become a "control freak." But she herself is out of control, living in a fantasy world, doing whatever she wants (having her own way), and leeching off of you. Your anger distances her from you.<P>What would you say is her #1 complaint about you? You already said being a zealot is one part of it. <BR>

KarmaGrrl,<BR>Her number one complaint would be that I wasn't there to support her when she need me just as her mother was not there when she had been molested as a child. If I were the cold uncaring person that she thinks that I am then I would have left her and attempted to get custody of our boys along with child support even though I make almost three times as much as she does. <P>I am not blaming her for the environment in which she grew up. She only understands based on the things she has learned up to this point. Her view of life is to narrow for her to understand.<P>I'm sure she would also bring up my not going to her mothers home as much as we have mine, that I have spent to much time on the computer (which I do enjoy, yet, I am supposed to do those things independent of her that give me some enjoyment), that I wouldn't let her spend us into more debt than we already are (her mother used to take her paycheck when she was a kid), that I have told our boys everything that she has done (she told them before I ever addressed it with them), that I told my family everything that she has done (she told my brother who in turn told the rest of my family, I talked to no one but God about this for the first 4 years she was having affairs), that I slapped her when she was fighting me (she needed to know that I wasn't going to take any crap off her), that I called the cops to have her thrown in jail (she had our oldest call the cops, I had him wait until I was done talking to her), that she was upset because the cops asked me if I wanted to press charges because she didn't have a mark on her (they gave me the abused spouse phone numbers because I had a cut on my chin and a scratch on my brow), that I wanted to control every aspect wbout her life (my pastor said that we are accountable to each other as the Bible states), that I ruined her life because she was impulsive and married me before she turned 35 which was the age she decided she sould get married and have children (I did not hold a gun to her head to make her marry me.)<P>NO ONE ELSE CAN RUIN YOUR LIFE. She made all the decisions that has caused her to feel the way she does about what is going on. I am not saying that I don't want to be with her because I know she needs someone to care. I was where she is when I was a child. She has never grwon out of being that very needy child. Most of her actions are that of a child. If she were the adult that she claims to be then we would be able to sit down and discuss what we need to do. She is only happy when EVERYONE does exactly what she wants them to do. She even had enough gaul (sp) to say that I should know exactly what she wants without havng her say it. I know of only One who is capable of that: Jesus.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 16, 1999).]

Do you really have her best interests in mind? It seems to me that you are somewhat indifferent to her need for the amount of love and devotion that you set aside for your faith.<P>You mentioned 'getting us out of debt so I can shower her with the gifts she feels she deserves'<P>Three questions about this:<BR>1)Does her OM 'shower' her with gifts?<BR>2)Has she told you that she needs to be showered with gifts?<BR>3)Do you honestly believe she needs material gifts rather than the same type of emotional devotion you so willingly give to the Lord?<P>I am a Christian, but I believe that the best way for married couples to worship God is to be transmitters to each other for the love and grace the good Lord shows to all of us. What I mean is that marriage should be a love triangle with God, not a one way commitment, hoping that God will hold the strings together. God helps those who help themselves. We cannot always throw our hands up and say 'Lord I give up. Please take over for me' HE doesn't work that way.<P>Please go to her, get her back, love her, devote yourself to her. God will not punish you for Loving your wife as you love him...he will honor you for it.<P>Why weren't you the one who followed her? Maybe she wants you to be a little jealous to see if you really care.<P>Don't be a victim. Don't be a 'Miniver Cheevy' if you know what I mean. Stand up and take the reigns of your life back from God. He wants you to be more than a conqueror. He wants you to be strong in His name.<P>Also, don't you dare blame her for her issues due to her childhood abuse. Now is not the time to be firm with her and try and make her see that she actually has control over herself. NO....now is the time for you to love her, to comfort her, to show her the GRACE she has never known.<P>I don't know what is making me go off on you like this, but I sure do feel HIM with me.<P>------------------<BR>Hanging on by a Thread

hangingbyathread,<BR>I am with you on everything you said. I sound indifferent because I am going through that irrational phase where part of me doesn't care. I just want it to end with her leaving thus relieving me of a great annoying pain or staying and being the W that God intended her to be for me thus relieving a great annoying pain as well. I know that my tone was less than sterling. <P>I am doing everything that you said. Last night we did shopping for Christmas for the boys. I told her how much cash I was going to give each of them. I am applying the cash to what she has gotten them. I even tried to have more than mere casual conversation with her which is all she will allow me to give her right now.<P>When she came home terrified because she thinks that someone is stalking her, I gave a hug. I was shocked that she let me give her a hug. I am a huggy kind of guy. I love hermore than life itself. I would go to hell in her place if I knew He would let me just so that she does not suffer. I am giving her space because the excess baggage is what is the root of our problems. I have studied her , read up on the subject, listened to many talk shows (Christian and non-Christian) to understand why she is doing what she is doing, talked with other women to get their points of view, etc for two years now and keep coming to the same conclusion that I can only be there for her in the ways that God tells me and that she allows as long as those two are compatible.<P>Yes, she likes me showering her with material gifts. I didn't do much at the beginning of our marraige and began at the 6 year point to do so. She was elated and bragged on me more than any other time in our marriage. She told all her female friends that she got gifts year round as opposed to only on special occasions.<P>Other man professes to be Christian but acts like she does. He is younger. She sees him beneath her mentally. She wants to be in charge having others do what she says. She doesn't have that with me. I can't give her what God won't allow me to give her. <P>It felt good to shop with her last night. She is slowly warming up to me even though she makes it a point to tell me that it means nothing. She leans on me because no one else is there for her when she needs them. She still respects me from the way she honors me: for my intellect. She has always placed me on a pedestal that she perceives she will never be able to reach. I am praying that once she gets her masters degree that I can convince her to get a doctoral degree so that she will have something that I don't have though I desire to earn one.<P>The OM and the other people she hangs around are not nearly as bright intellectually as she is. She even tells them that she learned from the master: me. The people I have talked to says how much she reveres me. I just want her to see me as her H who is on the same level as she is.<P>I know that the marriage covenant is in three parts. She doesn't see it that way. The sleeping around thing is related to her mother having a father for each of her sisters; there are 4 of them counting her.<P>As far as being jealous, I tried that during the first three affairs that were almost going on simultaneously. She wants me to get upset so that she can predict my being irrational by flying off the handle. I see no need to be violent because she is cheating on me. I accomplish nothing by doing that except making God angry with me. I can't do those things that she wants me to do that violate my relationship with Him. I love her very much but I will never compromise my relationship with Him for anyone not even my parents whom I love dearly. I can say that I have thought about having him beat up. I have a friend who is connected. This firend asked me if I wanted him beat up.<P>I am showing her the love that He has shown me. That is why I am still here after 8 affairs in 6 years.<BR>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 16, 1999).]<P>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 16, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 16, 1999).]

Do you ever grow tired of analyzing?<P>There are a number of reasons people act like they do, but there is only one way to overcome them...love.<P>Have you tried Plan A?<P>Have you posed the question to her: "Do you want this to work?"<P>What is her response?<P>She must also stop being a victim, but she must choose to do so for herself.<P>From your point of view she seems somewhat selfish, but I think that it may have more to do with a lack of loving affection from others. She is definitely missing something. Find out what and give it to her...I don't think it is the material gifts...by the way, you didn't answer if her OM gives her material gifts.<P>Ok...just saw your addition...well, maybe you need plan B. I mean at some point, someone needs to take accountability for their actions. Sounds like you are both too proud to admit your mistakes. 'Pride goeth before a great fall'<P>Don't have the OM beat up. That would not make God happy at all.<P>Sounds like (if you are telling the truth about exhausting all your resources) that she needs to make a commitment to what she is doing one way or the other. She needs to decide what is important. The unfortunate thing is that you can't make her.<P>I guess you can do nothing but pray and love.<P>But I would also take some course of action towards making her accountable and responsible.<P>If she doesn't want to decide then plan b...<P>God be with you<P>"The Lord is my Rock, my strength and my redeemer"<P>"I am always aware of the Lord's presence. He is neer and nothing can shake me."<P>------------------<BR>Hanging on by a Thread

Hanging on by a Thread,<BR>I do analyze evrything because I don't know the entire picture to know what the truth is. That is why I read His word as He says we are to do.<P>OM doesn't buy her anything. He was a needy type that she latched on to because she likes listening to people who have problems. This took a fair amount of time to develop. He was having problems with his W. It grew from their. He did the same for her. I have asked her what she wants me to do. She can't express it. I have no other choice but to analyze the response that I get from her and try new things that others suggest that I haven't tried before.<P>I have been praying for 6 years and doing as much as I can to meet her needs among the other things that I must do: work, spend time with the boys, etc. I need about 8 of me to do everything that she wants me to do. I just want the compassion that she wants me to show her. If I looked at life the way she does, I would have been gone five years ago and taken our boys if the courts would let me.<P>Everything that you suggest, I am doing in the doses that God is directing me. She is now responsible for her portion of the budget. She still keeps spending more than she makes though. She hates to come to me for her errors. The only thing that I haven't done is to leave her to fall flat on her face. I am doing what God wants me to do for her. If I had done what I wanted, she would have divorced me five years ago. I have endured this because God said to go down this path.<P>I am not upset with you. I have thought extensively about the things you have said. I have done most of them in many different mixtures. I just haven't interpreted what mixture God wants me to use.<P>MONDO HUG my friend.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Wow, yours is complicated. How to get fulfillment while sticking to our faith?<P>It is a question I ask myself and the only answer I have for myself is that something has to give.<P>I just don't know what I want to give up...my pride...admitting failure and taking my losses; along with my faith in the commandments <<or>> my happiness and self confidence; my freedom and my control; my appreciation and zest for life at the expense of not offending God?<P>I have to say though that I have come to understand a great deal about God's grace. It is made up of two things...unconditional love (God will love me even when I commit the greatest of sins) and eternal forgiveness (God will forgive each and every sin and allow me every chance to repent and redirect my soul).<P>They sound like two great excuses for being a sinner don't they? But that's not how they are to be used. They are (Grace is) our salvation in the darkest of times and the lowest of moments. When we have no solution save our basic instincts.<P>I may get a lot of criticism for saying this here, but sometimes we convince ourselves that the paths we have chosen are really the paths God has intended and I don't believe that is always the case. Can we be so arrogant to assume that the paths we have chosen (marriage) were the right ones? Pride gets in our way: "We serve God...how can we be wrong? God would not let us make mistakes that cost our soul"<P>The truth is we are wrong many times...we are imperfect beings and He knows this. He does let us choose our own path...that is our test. But we are saved by Grace...Amazing Grace. And we are wretches but we can open our eyes and see again because He loves us.<P>I'm not suggesting to give up, but I know that I am human and weak. In rage I may react...In spite I may speak...in sin I may give up...but I am not lost.<P>Perhaps I need help from you as you need it from everyone here. Perhaps all we need is to forgive ourselves enough to let go.<P>Out of curiosity are you Catholic, Protestant, Evangelistic...where do your values reside?<P>------------------<BR>Hanging on by a Thread

Hanging on by a Thread,<BR>I am Protestant, Baptist. I have let go. When I met my W I told her I would divorce her if she ever did this to me. God toldme differently when I got to that bridge. Pride is not an issue with me right now, that is why I speak so freely about what has and is still going on. It is to heal while being an example for others to follow.<P>I am only that which He has made me to be. When I look back over my life from my birthday in Jesus which was 25+ years ago, I realize that He was directing my path as He says in His word before I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He has let me know that I am to be the person who sets the real example for her and our boys.<P>I give Him all the glory, honor, and praise for what I have done. I am nothing without Him and everything I am is Him except the rebellious sinful part.<P>I go to Him because He is the only one who comforts me enough for me to endure. Besides He sent me here so that I could heal as well as give hope to others. I know this but I know when I say anything with any conviction I am accused of being prideful. I repeat He gets all the glory, honor, and praise for anything that I do.<P>I have grown much closer to Him because of her. I owe her the perfect peace that has increased because He gave her to me as His gift. Satan is the one who lied to her and she took the bait hook, line, and sinker.<P>I have found that I am right only when He has called the shots. I am wrong when I decided without relying on Him to give me the answer. This occurred when I made love to her before we were officially married before all to include Him. Another time was when I made love to my ex-girlfriend. There have been numerous other times also but those were the very biggest. I have made love to only two women. I am not a prude. I just know how to keep things in perspective most of the time. <P>He is still working on me. I love reading His word because it comforts me. Getting to know Him is more important than anything else because in getting to know Him I learn how he wants me to react and approach her. His word is the manual that most of us don't want to read because we fail to understand that it is a relationship with Him that is real. We must cultivate that relationship moreso than the one we have with our spouses, family, and friends. Once we have that relationship right then all other relationships will fall into place.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Your W, is she your "little girl?" <P>

KarmaGrrl,<BR>Not sure what you mean? However, there are times I do want her to be that in the sense that I want to love her as though she were my little girl in a fatherly protector kind of way. There are those times when I truly enjoy the woman that she is when she acts mature. I love all these aspects as long as she is willing to enjoy all the aspects of me. I too want to be alittle boy at times and other times to be the man. However, I have found that she won't let me be the little boy that I have been wanting to be here lately. When I want to be the little boy, I want to be pampered in the most loving manner. I receive only anger and much distance. <P>This is how we all are made.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

You're a good man. You want to win. Reread 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 from a totally new perspective this time.<P>This time, when it says that a married man's interests are divided, he must please God and please his wife, think about that. You are married but living as if you weren't. A single man can concern himself only with pleasing God.<P>You, however, chose to be married. That means that your interests should be divided. It sounds like you haven't concerned yourself too much with doing things that make your wife pleased. You've focused on pooh-poohing her wishes and wants and focusing just on God. If you read 1 Corinthians 7 from that perspective, you'll see that choosing to be married but refusing to have your interests divided is sin. Repent. Make your wife happy again.<BR>

Dear Rob,<P>I understand completely how tough your life is and you are on the right track by depending on the Lord to love you first and then extending that love to your wife and others. You do seem to have a bit of the martyr in you, though, by having a need for others to see what you're doing and to give lots of details and self justifying information to others, even unbelievers. You are even having unbelievers giving you advice on this board to which you at least give the appearance of taking seriously. This is wrong. "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night." (Psalm 1:1-2)<P>Theoretically, the Lord himself and his Spirit working in and through you should keep you calm and take away the need to reach out so much to others and justify your position before man which is clearly motivated by your flesh. Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh." (Galatians 5:25) However, what you are doing and the way you are doing it are understandable and the Lord does not condemn you for it. <P>I think you are basically on the right track but need one good Christian male friend who understands what you're going through and loves and accepts you in the Lord. Between that, the Lord himself and your faith in Him working itself out in love, you will get through in good shape. The results are not guaranteed but the Lord is good and He promises that He will work all things together for your good.<P>Yours in Christ,<P>Murray<P>murray@starlinx.com<P> <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Murray (edited December 17, 1999).]

Cuckold,<BR>I have done as you suggest. I can only please her if she is capable of seeing that I am trying to please her. I have always done everything to please her. That is why she is getting her space right now. I can't force her to let me touch her or force her to talk to me. I still will not violate my relationship with Him in order to please her solely. I will only please her where the thing I do pleases Him. There are things that she will want done that will not please Him but will please her.<P>I am doing the very thing that you suggest. That is why I am still here and she hasn't left. If she was that unhappy, she would have gone by now.<P>MONDO HUG. I am sure that I stated this a little to strongly but please forgive me if I did. I am trying to tone things down a little. It is difficult when you are working hard both at home and at work and getting no appreciation for the things that you do. I do periodically get it here. Yet, He is giving me lots of confirmation through His word.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>