A 15 year old son????

I thought you said you had a 9 year old daughter?

The plot thickens......

more and more collateral damage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

okay, that's it! RANDYRAIL, if tew is a slut and a whore for cheating, what do you think that makes you? you think you're any better? where a guy like you gets off making ANY judgements is beyond sick... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Tew!
So I guess you will have to have a leash on your soon to be husband for the rest of your soon to be short lived marriage huh?
Do you realize what you said???? He slept next to you by your bedside when you were in the hospital so you wouldn't fear that he won't cheat?
My God! You two are not utilizing Plan A, it is a mockary! You are mocking every marriage that is trying to work here!
Do you realize that you need help before you are getting into this so called marriage? Yes, his kids can look adorable sleeping on their daddy's chest, but it is not about daddy's chest it is about how you two are going to be able to have a descent marriage! What is a marriage when you go into a marriage fully aware that he might cheat! Where is the trust? No trust in the beginning? DOOMED MARRIAGE! You are blind to what marriage is all about! You need HELP!
But I don't recall you answering the question in the other posts. Do you have any feelings for his exwife? Do you realize what pain she was going through? Nope! Because the was you see it, it is a game of win or loose! Honey, she is going to have the last laugh on you!
Nobody is perfect, but you ought to know better than to go after someone who has pledged their life to someone that they love!
I would wish you luck, but I have know respect for people of your morals!(very little)God will deal with you very soon!
You really think your marriage is going to work out? Like I said before, he is taking everything from his old mariage and adding the load onto you! Don't beat him up if he cheats! You knew what you are getting yourself into when he married you! Your actions discust me and your soon to be husband! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Ali!

kat,
he is always trying to reassure me about his fidelity" Are you not worried about this? Don't you trust him.........

I trust him. As I stated I wanted him to leave. Every time the IV beeped or something he'd have a cow. I know the nurses were grateful when I got out.

"There are no unexplained absences etc" funny neither did my H......................

What I meant by that was in the beginning of our EMR he was over a lot. He also participated in my daughter's school activities. He just had a lot of free time. I thought that may be his norm when we first moved in together, however it is not.

I only answered your thread because you mentioned the OW. I hope you and your H can work things out. I am not anti-marriage.

Pepper,
Thanks for your beautiful and thoughtful replies on general. I have posted at MB for almost 2 years now - initially as SOW22MM. I believe my history speaks for itself. I rarely post on Just Found Out. I only did so because she mentioned OW in title of thread. I do read the boards, all of them, to gain insight, knowledge, and experience.

General question:

Most BSs question How do you know he won't cheat on you. I don't. However, I will use this scenario:

A baby that has a history of apnea spells. In the past this baby has quit breathing on more than 1 occassion. A new babysitter is not informed of baby's history (BS before D day). A new babysitter is aware of baby's history (OP that engaged in EMR w/ FWS). In which situation is the baby's symptoms of apnea likely to be noticed first?

As the FOW of this FMM I am aware of the fact that he has cheated. I do not believe he is a serial cheater. I do believe he and his W jumped the gun and married too fast - that is why I have waited 16 months to agree to marry him. Do I trust him entirely for the rest of my life? For now yes. However, I did request (and he complied) w/ a vasectomy (can read past posts on Pregnancy to see thought process I went through at that time). I read a lot at MB. I do want to affair proof our relationship. We have done the emotional needs questionaire. However, I saw the destruction an OC can have on a relationship - socially, emotionally, and financially. Thus - the vasectomy. FMM and I will never have children and hopefully now will never have to deal w/ an OC if he does one day cheat.

There are no guarentees in life. However, as I am aware of his propensity to perhaps step outside (as is a BS that takes back FWS after Dday) I believe I am better equipped to prevent, notice the signs of, and deal w/ an EMR if one arises.

I do not promote EMRs. Nor, will I knowingly ever have one again. I have in the past. That is why I post - to share and hopefully help others.

kat,
I hope I have not offended you. I mean well. I know many are turned off by me because I am still w/ FMM. However, from my reading here and at another site I am aware that my situation is not the norm (nor was FMM's marriage) and that marriages can not only survive, but thrive after the affair. Good luck to you.

Pepper, I like you too. I have 3 kids. A 15 and 13 year old son and a 9 year old daughter. I post a lot about putting the kids above your anger because I feel I do. You already know the situation w/ my D and as far as my sons go they visit w/ out of state dad and I receive CS all w/out court order or drama.

<small>[ May 25, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

krista,
Thank you for that response. tew

WAY TO GO NAIVE!
I don't see her (TEW) having any conscience either!
But yet, they deserve each other! I wish his ex-wife is posting. We could be helping her! I would not want tew being a step Mom to my kids!
look at RR's OW's(thing) daughter like mother like daughter! Going to South Padre island to pick up fresh meat together with OW sister? The three Amigo sluts!
But to answer the over all question. We B]cannot[/B] Be angry if an OP goes after our husband./wife. We sure can hate them! But they cannot take the bate!
Yes, Kris way to go on RR's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> He was not the victim as I keep telling him that! It was both of them! They both made the decision. He should have run the other direct. TEW is exactly like RR's Hobag, going after something that is married But he should have know to run! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Ali!

ali, i'm glad to hear from you! frankly, i don't know why your husband is still alive! his refusal to take any responsibility for anything that's happened fills me with "shock and awe". don't know if you've followed his thread, but evidently he thinks i'm mean because i keep calling him on his statements placing all the blame on her!

you know, i got pregnant at 17. before that i was prom queen, sports star, i met ozzy osbourne and others like him because i hung out in hollywood clubs. i felt so good and worthwhile because i was so in demand and popular. then i became mommy and left it all behind. and darn it i miss it!

but i had to become a grown up, to realize that it was my own actions that cost me that which i prized. your husband ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) has yet to get that until he stops focusing on how horrible she was and sees how horrible he's been no healing will occur. i'm sorry but i'm not going to pat his hand and tell him that he's doing good when he clearly has not moved forward!

if you need to talk, feel free to pm me ali. i'd love to talk to you about this!

tew, i know a bit more of your story from certain other board so while i do not approve of adultery in any form, i also think some marriages should never have been. the mm your with now included! you did know better, but i can't see you doing it again. we all do stupid things, just don't do them again!

Ali,
So I guess you will have to have a leash on your soon to be husband for the rest of your soon to be short lived marriage huh?
Do you realize what you said???? He slept next to you by your bedside when you were in the hospital so you wouldn't fear that he won't cheat?

That is not what I said.

I imagine the same way a lot of BSs feel. I already know he has the capacity to cheat. We are quite open and he and I both plan A daily. Any man can cheat. Due to our history he is always trying to reassure me about his fidelity - even though I don't question it. Recently I had surgery. He got a cot and stayed at bedside so I wouldn't worry about where he was. I WANTED him to go home. I was in so much pain I wouldn't have cared if he had sex w/ the nurse at my bedside. He said that was the morphine talking and I mught wonder later.

Notice I stated I wanted him to go home. I, at this point (perhaps naively) do not expect him to cheat. Thus, I do not need a leash. Nor, do I require him to check in etc. He does so because he does not even want the hint of uncertainty in my thoughts about his fidelity.

My God! You two are not utilizing Plan A, it is a mockary! You are mocking every marriage that is trying to work here!

Why? So in September, when we marry, we can magically use Plan A? I don't buy into all of MB philosphies, but I do take what I think is worthy and we inpliment it into our relationship. I hink I should be my best daily. Appreciate him daily. Should I wait intil I fail to meet his needs, he goes elsewhere, and then Plan A? Remember - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Do you realize that you need help before you are getting into this so called marriage? Yes, his kids can look adorable sleeping on their daddy's chest, but it is not about daddy's chest it is about how you two are going to be able to have a descent marriage! What is a marriage when you go into a marriage fully aware that he might cheat! Where is the trust? No trust in the beginning? DOOMED MARRIAGE! You are blind to what marriage is all about! You need HELP!

I trust him. So I know he has cheated. So are the BSs and FWSs that choose to stay together doomed as well - and if not, why not?

But I don't recall you answering the question in the other posts. Do you have any feelings for his exwife? Do you realize what pain she was going through? Nope! Because the was you see it, it is a game of win or loose! Honey, she is going to have the last laugh on you!

WELL, I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO COPY AND POST EVERYTHING, HOWEVER YES I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HIS W. I POST AT GLORYB AS FEMALESARGEANT AND IF YOU CARE TO GAGE MY GUILT/REMORSE TAKE A LOOK AT OLD POSTS THERE AS I POSTED ABOUT IT A LOT. (sorry about caps) I do not consider this a game. I did not win. We are not on a honeymoon. In the 16 months we have dealt with:

Unemployment
His dad's surgery and recooperation at our house
Moving
Court - to secure visitation w/ both kids
His illness and surgery
My illness and surgery
His vasectomy
His aunt's death
Day to day life.

Nobody is perfect, but you ought to know better than to go after someone who has pledged their life to someone that they love!

I did not "go after" him. And I wish you luck as well. tew

kris go to me thread!

okay, by me thread i assume you mean the one you started, right?

tew

I for one will not condemn you. I appreciate your honesty and admire you for having the courage to step foreward and answer the question that was asked. I can understand what you are trying to say. I do not agree with the path that you took to get here, but this is where you are. Unfortunately when some people ask a question they do not really want an honest answer. What they generally want is someone to agree with their position. But they haven't that certain something that it takes to honestly state what it is that they want.

If you were to have met him after his divorce you would be given all the support in the world by most of the women here, but since he hadn't yet divorced, they will never see your position. The sticking point is that he was still married. It does not matter if he was destined to divorce or not. Guilty or not you are going to be blamed for breaking up his marriage. It does not matter how hard you tried to help him with his marriage, you are the one who is going to be condemned because they could no work out their problems.

I hope that your future marriage is filled with love and happiness. May god bless you for you are also one of his children and deserve his love as much as we who have driven our mates into the arms of another. I have no stones to throw at you for I am not any more holy than thee. I am sinner too.

Sometimes it is best to simply move foreward and leave behind those who would condemn us without regard to their own guilt. There are many threads on the forums where your advice and experience will be appreciated. Hold your head up and knock the dust off your heels as you leave.

Agape. fudd.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KatHurt:
<strong>What kind of woman tries to/breaks up a marriage?

Is it just me, am I old fashion but I cannot understand what goes through a woman's mind when she is having an affair with a married man.

In my case she was married too(for 3 years). No kids. She knew that my H loved and cared madly for his kids but she continued to play a part in this dirty farce. I am not saying that my H is not partly to blame too but you do not take what is not yours........

How does she feel now I wonder, now that we are together and trying to recover with all our might. Will she realise how little the sordid A meant to him?

What kind of morals do these females have?

View please?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KatHurt, your guess is as good as mine. In my case, I suspect OW's did not realize WH was married. Even when one of them was told, she didn't want to believe it. I suspect that WH was very good at creating a fantasy for these women. Of course, they were "excited" about what he does for a living (entertainment attorney) and probably thought they were being very supportive.

Some OW's see it as a challenge of some sort. Keep in mind that sometimes WH's will rewrite history and make it seem as if you're unsupportive, uncommunicative, and otherwise lacking. Meanwhile, the OW is made to feel as if she's smarter, sexier, more beautiful, more supportive, more understanding, more this, and more that. So, these OW's may see it as their mission to make him happy and fulfill those emotional needs that WH identified--including their need for admiration and sexual fulfillment. It's like when they're together, they're in this enchanted cottage, where ordinary cares such as household bills, car notes, childcare issues, job security, replacing the refrigerator and clothes dryer, in-law problems, etc., don't intrude on their fantasy. Of course, the fun really starts once the A is exposed to the light of day. Those rose-colored glasses seem to come off real quick.

WH's may even make promises and build up certain expectations in the minds of the OW's. These promises range from promising to leave "soon" so they can always be together to telling to promising to tell BS that they are leaving for her. Some of these women put their lives on hold waiting for the fulfillment of these promises. They will spend holidays without their stolen man, while he spends them with his family. When they do manage to get together, WH may go so far as to tell OW that he was miserable during that time and that he was only with his family out of a sense of obligation. The OW in this situation may even forego dating other men because she's "saving herself" for her stolen man. Sounds pathetic, doesn't it? I don't think that particular decision is made in a vacuum either. Some WH's can be selfish and demanding of OW's time. HE can go home to his wife and family every night, but OW better NOT even think of having someone of her own! Some of these OW's may actually get a clue and start to have an epiphany and they move on after one broken promise and indignity too many. Never mind the indignity BS's have had to endure while the A was going on!

Some OW's may have underlying self-esteem issues, which makes them willing to share a man with someone else.

Then you have the ones who will blatantly go after your H, with no regard whatsoever for your marriage. These are the ones who truly have no morals whatsoever. Some of them become stalkers and may have been emotionally unstable to begin with. Some of them like to play games and bear YOU ill will for wanting to work on your marriage. Some become downright vindictive when they're dumped.

Oh, and how's this for twisted? Some OW's never even INTEND for WH's to leave their marriages. If he gets on her last good nerve, it's all good since he goes home to his BS and SHE can put up with him. When WS does leave his marriage, the whole aura and "excitement" of the A is damaged in the mind of this particular OW. This guy is now going to be around ALL THE TIME, which means that OW has taken on the job of fulfilling his EN's FULL-TIME. Serves her right!

Thanks to everybody who has taken the time to reply. All very interesting. I seemed to have started off a painful subject.

Tew, thanks for replying and agree with the fact that if he was divorced before you met him, you would not be getting such a hard time. However, he was married and not matter how you dress it up you took what did not belong to you.........

You still did not answer my question regarding if you have been in the wife's shoes. The betrayed person? Have you ever felt the gut renching feeling in the pit of your stomach when you realise that your husband has been with another woman. Broken your trust. Broken your heart. Let you down. Let his children down.

KAT - that's why I warned you in the beginning... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> A topic like this can get emotions running wild! As I stated before, I am the BS, and my FWH's FOW was my own sister. In MY case, the FOW has serious "issues", and is one of the OP who got vindictive after the A ended. My sister wanted to destroy my life... why? I'm not really sure, but I do know she has hated me for most of my life... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

But this is not the case in all A's... some other posters have hit the nail on the head here! As easy as it is to blame the OP in an A, it's not fair to do it... I blame BOTH my H and my sister!!! She went after him... he should have RUN FOR HIS LIFE!!! But, obviously he didn't, or I wouldn't be here!

tew - so many of us BS's "hate" the OP because I think it is easier than accepting that our own S made a bad decision that hurts soooo damn bad... I know I didn't marry my H thinking "Yep, this is it... the man who will someday break my heart!"... what you participated in was wrong... the fact that you MM did it was HORRIBLE!!! I really hope you will not ever have to feel the pain of being betrayed by the man you love... because it really sucks!!!

JMHO!
mc

At the risk of being seriously flamed, I'm going to answer your questions Kat, but only what you asked specifically. I will warn you though that my style tends to be balls out/no fluffy so I apologize up front if anybody is offended by my truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KatHurt:
What kind of woman tries to/breaks up a marriage?

I have had several affairs with married or otherwise involved men. It was never my goal to break up the marriage. Truthfully, as ugly as it seems now, I was entertaining myself. I was selfish and getting my own needs met. I could never see myself marrying a man who cheats, but I was tickled to death to "use" one. It made me feel powerful.

Is it just me, am I old fashion but I cannot understand what goes through a woman's mind when she is having an affair with a married man.

My father was a WS and my mother a BS. I felt that women who stayed were fools and weak. I came to LOATHE that aspect of my mother's personality and in a continuing effort to NOT be "weak" like her I think i've over identified with my father and become a victimizer and therefore powerful in my mind.

In my case she was married too(for 3 years). No kids. She knew that my H loved and cared madly for his kids but she continued to play a part in this dirty farce. I am not saying that my H is not partly to blame too but you do not take what is not yours........

Never underestimate the power of addiction. I became wildly addicted to the drama of it all.

How does she feel now I wonder, now that we are together and trying to recover with all our might. Will she realise how little the sordid A meant to him?

My last A ended nearly 2 years ago now and I have made a conscienceous effort to NOT be in another one. It is of no conwequence to me that MM and his W are still together. It was never about their marriage anyway.

What kind of morals do these females have?
Just different ones than you. I've actually learned a lot since my affair ended, and have made it my personal goal to not be in such relationships. I lead a different kind of life now. The difference being that I don't regret the past neccessarily. I hate the ugliness that I allowed myself to be involved in. I take full responsibility for MY actions. But feel that their marriage is not my business. And I know enough now to lot let myself be dragged into such a situation.

Hope this helps

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ May 26, 2003, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</small>

I just love relative morality, if it feels good then it's ok to do&#8230;. Now there&#8217;s a moral code to live by.

Many OP feel that they have done nothing wrong because they are not the one breaking vows.

I do not buy into the idea that the OP is just some one looking to get their needs met so they are not bad people. A person is only as good as the worst thing they do. The only caveat I put on that is that there is redemption.. but that only comes when the OP steps totally out of the affair relationship.. marrying the MM/MW does not constitute redemption. (MHO)

Many OP feel that they have done nothing wrong because they are not the one breaking vows. Here&#8217;s an analogy.. Joe owns a business with Mary.. XYZ Enterprises. He has an other business cohort.. Jane. Joe and Jane decide to go into business&#8230; to that end they rip off XYZ Enterprises. When it goes to court, Joe and Jane are found guilty of embezzlement. Jane is not off the hook legally because she stole from a company she did not have legal obligations too. It did not matter that Joe was a partial owner. What matters is that they both embezzled.

IMHO, infidelity is a form of theft, or embezzlement, (usually more on the emotional level but there are also physical considerations) carried out by two very selfish people.

Tew, do you really think that on judgement day you are going to be exonerated because it felt good to you and because you were not the married one?

fudd,
Thank you for your lovely post. I also hope those same hings for our marriage. There certainly is no fantasy in our relationship (as the term is often used here at MB), however I believe we will both be fine so long as we remember to tske the time to appreciate and cater to one another - regardless of how busy we get.

kathurt,
Yes, my ex-husband cheated on me. However, I guess it had little, if any, impact on me. I realize that is not the norm. He had hit me on 2 occassions and that was the issue. I had to leave the marriage on that basis.

I am not sure the specifics of your M. I do believe people often tend to take their parners for granted. Mt step-father stayed married to my mom for the sake of my sister. She is an ob-gyn he is a banker w/ normal hours. My mom treated this man llike [censored] for years. He had an EMR in the late 90s my mom found out and was devestated. She came to me crying, I told her I was surpised he hadn't left her years ago, He only married her in the first place because she got pregbabt on purpose. They got counseling, he left the EMR, and they moved out of state to create distance.

My mom slowly began to go back to her old patterns of abuse. This man was her rock. He did anything and everything for her. Due to her schedule he ran the household. The day my mom drove myt sister to the college dorm for her first semester, she came home and found him gone. He had moved out. Ny non called me again crying etc. I told her he vowed in counseling to stay till Nicole was an adult and would stay forever if you changed. She changed long enough to get him back.

Personally I don't know how he withstood her all those years. I am surprised he never snapped and killed her in a rage. Yet, my mom still plays the role of the victim. She has been married 5 times and is not even 55. They stayed together 17 years and only for the child.

I am not saying all BSs are that way. Nor, did my mother's abuse make it right for my step-father to have EMR. However, he was human and it made it understandable in my eyes - not ok. In truth they should have divorced long ago. My aunt has l me through the years my sis emailed her etc and felt so guilty her dad was staying married only for her sake. That is a lot of pressure to place on a child.

mc,
Thanks for those thoughts. My mom also had an intense anger and hatred towards the OW - even called the lady's husband. She refused to see any fault of her own. Let me preempt that by stating I still don't think her behavior made it right for him to cheat - but it was understandable. the funn thing is our family still thinks he was a saint. It is him, not my mom, that is invited to get ogether w/ the family on holidays.

I think it is lousy your sister betrayed you. If I recall your story your family has supported HER in this. Nuts. I hope you are doing well.

katie,
I too admire your honesty. Are you now maried?

zorweb,
So, because FMM and I are getting marrid we are not worthy of redemption? You must read a different bible than me. Yes, we were wrong. We are now doing all we can to better ourselves and our relationship. I have 3+ years invested in this R. We will make it. We are aware of the pitfalls that happen in relationships. We both do a lot of reading.

As far as "theft" from the M. I do not agree. Vr few states even enforce the alienation of affection laws. So what did he take? They were not even married for 2 years? They had no mutual assets. She owned her home when they married. We have bought one together. She had her car, he has his. She hasn't even lost a check each week because she also has a live-in. His XW receives ample CS. She gets far more than required - esp since we have the daughter for 3 days a week now. 4 this week as we are not taking her back on time today.

Speaking of which, their daughter, I have to go now. I am going in to town and buying her one of those circular ring thingys. Today will be her first day going "swimming". As soon as the sun comes down a little we will get wet. It also will make a nice picture for the paper I work for.

Katie, you have alot of guts to say what you did and your honesty anonymously on the interent is stellar.

Moral standards are pretty much cut and dry. You can change them to suit you, but morals are morals.

You are the kind of woman that preyed upon my husband. He is no victim, for he was the one that broke his vows, but what you are saying is what enables people to have affairs.

It sure would be a nice world for all of us if we all had morals. Not morals that suit us as we please. How sad is it for the wives and children of the men you seduced.

I guess I rest easy in the idea of Karma, you reap what you sow. H ow is doing that as we speak. I have pity for her, but I can't say I am sorry that her life is falling apart due to her actions. Karma, what goes around, comes around.

Women who have affairs with married men...

are SELFISH.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>

IMHO, infidelity is a form of theft, or embezzlement, (usually more on the emotional level but there are also physical considerations) carried out by two very selfish people.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">zorweb, you hit the nail right on the head. The thievery is so insidious. It constitutes stolen moments, time, emotion, finances, resources, and thoughts. It has always bugged me that OP's are so willing to accept someone else's "stolen goods." And, of course, embezzlement, like infidelity, is an "inside job" perpetrated by someone who sets up the conditions under which the embezzlement can occur in the first place.