Tewjtm,

You are right, we must not be reading the same bible. In the one I read redemption requires that the sinner do something… make amends. Also, if a person says they are following a religious teaching, then they do not get to pick and choose what works for them and throw out the rest. Either they follow the teachings or they do not. If you want to bring the Bible into this, then let’s face it, your MM committed a mortal sin as marriage is a sacred vow. You helped him do that.

Here is another example.. my 12 year old step daughter shoplifted an $85 locket from Foleys. When I realized what she did, I took her to the store to return it. Believe it or not they did not want it back, just gave her a scolding. When we got home, we still had the locket so she asked for it. After all why not right? WRONG. We donated it to a charity. It was not hers and to let her keep it would teach her the wrong lesson.

few states even enforce the alienation of affection laws.

That is because our society has fallen into a state of relative morality. No one really cares what anyone else does. Just because most states no longer enforce them, does not mean that affairs are ok, that they do not damage people and families beyond repair, or that they do not steal important tangible and non-tangible things from the BS.

So what did he take? They were not even married for 2 years? They had no mutual assets. She owned her home when they married. We have bought one together. She had her car, he has his. She hasn't even lost a check each week because she also has a live-in. His XW receives ample CS. She gets far more than required - esp since we have the daughter for 3 days a week now. 4 this week as we are not taking her back on time today.

Obviously what is taken via an affair is often relative to the investment in the marriage.. a new marriage generally has a smaller investment then a longer one. But what did he take? We would have to ask her what she feels he took. She does have some thing to do with this you know. He obviously married her under fraudulent intent, as he never really gave the marriage a chance. Of course you helped him not give it a chance by giving him a place to run to. Did he buy you presents? Did he spend time with you that he should have spent with his wife and baby? He took away from his wife her right to making decisions about own life and body.. such as benig exposed to STD’s. She is now not even allowed to mother her own child on a full time basis. Of course you don’t care what it feels like. You have what you want.

Karma has a way of catching up. Every person who is an OP/WS makes it that much easier for this type of behavior to perpetuate itself through our society. After all what’s wrong with it, right?????

I hope his wife has found some peace and finds a better man in the future. She obviously picked poorly in that marriage.

<small>[ May 26, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

zorweb,
I do not care to tun this into a debate about the bible. I am not overly religious. We do go to church each week. I do it mostly for the kids. Yes he sinned. She sinned. I sinned. My bible teaches me that when and if I am ready I have to repent and accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior and then try to live a Christ like life. As it is through faith, not acts or works.

Regardless - yes, he took time away from the home. However, she was not happy, nor was he. Yes, I hope she finds happiness also. She seems satisfied w/ her current live-in. No, she doesn't get to parent her child full-time. That is a result of the divorce process and many parents and children deal with this issue even in cases not involving infidelity. Both parents have a right to maximum time w/ the children. Parents divorce each other, not their children. Would it be better if he had just left and not pursued his parenting time? tew

In case it doesn't come across in my first response, I think that affairs are wrong. You'll get no argument from me that affairs are 100% selfish and that the morality that takes place during them is pretty sliding scale.

To answer the question (I forget who asked), no, I am not currently married. I am in a loving and committed relationship though. We are monogomous.

It always cracks me up when "good people of faith" sort of "wish" karma on me as revenge. I'll say this - my path has been my path and as for redemption, well that's between God and me.

In case it was missed from my first post, my mother was a BS. There is no question in my mind that she was devastated by my father's infidelity. I take no issue with that. The part that's taken me so long to work through is her sustained hate for OW. In time (I think) it weakened her. And God only knows what seeds where sewn in me that allowed me to so easily become an OW. Personally, I think she gave the OW so much power in her life that I came to see my step mom (OW) as powerful and my mother as weak.

These days, I have learned to go forward and leave triangulated relationships behind.

Will my partner cheat? Who's to say. It's not somthing that I worry about. I show up and do the best that I can for this relationship and I leave the rest to God.

These days family is pretty imporant to me. I know, however, that it only has the value that we (the members thereof) give it. We are a blended family and are in the beginning phases of becoming a larger and legal one.

<small>[ May 26, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</small>

katie,
It did come across in your first post. I also believe EMRs are wrong. Blended families are rewarding. My STBSD had a great time in the pool. She was a little skittish at first. I got some video footage and some reg pictures to send to her mother next week. We just took her back and FMM is at work now. I can now enjoy peace and quiet. The kids' bellies are full of barbeque and watermelon, they are tired from swimming, and are now napping as the rented movie watches them.

I congratulate you on your newfound happiness and family. tew

Katie, I personally don't find myself "a good person of faith". If I were that, well, I would be in church more often and maybe act a little different. I do believe what comes around, goes around. I don't believe in the literal sense(aka you are a mistress then you become the cheated on) but in a sense if you bring despair to others, despair will then find you. Same with happiness.

I find my ow about 25% responsible for the affair. She knew he was married, knew the kids and I and really couldn't give a s^*% about anyone but her. She played him like a fiddle. He is 75% responsible because he allowed it and got off on it, bad pun intended. Affairs cannot happen unless there are TWO parties willing.

I do not hate her, I don't even really dislike her. I don't know her. I do know, from much talk and H's agreement, she is the office whore. She is a gold digger and rather moronic with her money. Do I think she is suffering somewhat from the fallout? Yes, to a degree. Probably not what I am suffering, but she isn't finding this fun. I am not consumed with hate for her, I assure you. I have not confronted her, called her, bothered her or anything rude. Now, we did have sex on her desk and I found that quite empowering, but I think that is fairly well deserved.

I do not find blended families marvelous. I think the original family unit is much much better for *the kids*. I think there is plenty of research out there that overwhelming agrees that divorce is hard on kids. The reason my h has such issue is due to coming from a broken up home. He grew up well off, but messed up. The psychologist he sees pinpointed it. I swore I would never date anyone from a divorced family, because the likelihood of them divorcing is very high. Obviously I did date and marry someone from that situation. Unfortunately, he played out his father's part to a T, fortunately, I didn't play his mother's part

My children are the most important thing to me. I will suffer this humiliation(and it is humiliating) and we will both see to protecting our marriage and our love from now on.

I can tell you that if he decides to cheat again, and I find out, then I am done. then that will be 100% him and not the ow. Then my kids will suffer through the pain of divorce.

Blended families are a far second to a loving original parent home. Different story in the case of abuse, addictions, or some other awful thing in the marriage. Blended families due to affairs are just a sad side effect.

Thank God my Father was a good man that didn't have affairs(and I do know this for a fact from my mother) I thank God daily for the luck of my formative years.

Naive,
I saw your post on the other board about the desk incident, too funny. Good for you. Personally I don't feel it is the divorce in and of itself that harms the children, but the way the 2 parents handle it and each other. There is also research that shows that children that grow up in a home w/ excessive fighting etc. do poorly. A parent can divorce his or her spouse w/out divorcing the children. I know my FMM has been and will continue to be an active parent. tew

I guess we base most of our viewpoints from our own experiences. My H and I rarely ever fought. We got along great. I would bet there are many marriages out there that are the same way. I like my husband and I did then. I was happy. I thought all was great. The kids were happy. he wasn't happy, but being the person he is, he internalized it all. Then she was there, being "his friend" and it escalated.

I am very certain we would have had a very nasty divorce. He KNOWS how to have a nasty divorce from seeing a divorce that went as far as the state supreme court(his parents). We have discussed this and as I expected, as time went on, he would have been totally awful. His affair was selfish. It was ALL about him and how he felt. The week long seperation(yes, it wasn't very long) was hell on the kids and I. I was a mess. I couldn't believe MY life was now in the toilet. I could not believe HE had cheated on me. The man that had always seemed to worship me. The man I loved.

In an abusive marriage of any kind, it is best to not be in it and have the kids exposed. I believe serial affairs included. In a marriage that is not abusive and you absolutely don't hate the person, you are better off trying to love the person. There was something in the beginning that made you feel that way. Love is a choice. I have made that choice to love my husband and forgive him for what he has done. I did not take that choice lightly. I was very ready to be on my own and not be treated like a disposable doormat. It has been HIS actions after the affair that have made me keep loving him. I am still extremely hurt and very disappointed in him, but since there is love left in the marriage, since we both are going to do our best in the marriage, it is a far superior choice than divorce ESPECIALLY for our children. I don't want them to have to relive his childhood. Even if we divorced, it would never be THAT bad.

Yes, there are two things that have helped me regain some public dignity. The first being my throwing all his belongings at his work door, to show I wasn't going to take his behavior(it went on awhile and everyone knew but me, so lovely) and the second was doing it on her desk. That is so very out of character for me. Funny thing is, she only blames ME for the incident. She is putting no blame on him. H and I were talking about that last night, how I had blamed him and she was blaming me. Rather ironic. The mooney eyes she was giving him (she was starting again, I know because H was telling me) had to stop. I figured even *she* couldn't want him after that kind of disrespect.

Anyhow, I am not trying to step on toes, I am just relating what my thoughts are from a bs who had a fairly decent marriage pre A. I do have to say that my marriage is better now than it has ever been. Again, another irony. Maybe I will thank her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As my blended family is not the resultof any affair I really can't speak to that reality.

My personal opinion though, is that #1 if the parents are healthy, loving well adjusted people then they will raise the same. #2 children deserve a stable loving home to grow up in reguardless of the number of parents there or the gender of the parents.

#3 infidelity is a curse and cheating is it's own punishment

Lastly, there are statistics and studies to prove absolutely any point you want to prove. The real measure of how "great" a family is is what is produced from that family.

Naive,

I want to ask you a question, but I really am not sure of the politically correct way to ask.

I'll just ask and if you're offended, please ignore it.

You say that your marriage was fine before and that it's better now than before. My question- how would you know? You didn't know that there was a problem before?

I truely hope that things are well and that your husband has learned his lesson, but until HE makes major major changes inside himself how do you ever trust that things are ok. I mean really ok inside of his head?

HELP!! I AM IN DESPERATE NEED OF HELP, I HAVE NEVER POSTED HERE, IM NEW. IM NOT EVEN SURE IM DOING THIS RIGHT. BUT I JUST FEEL LOST AND I AM WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING! I FOUNG OUT 8 MONTHS AGO MY HUBBY HAD AFFAIR WITH ONE OF MY SO CALLED FRIENDS. I WAS VERY OPTOMISTIC IN THE BEGINING, BUT THAT IS DWINDLING. SHE TOLD MY HUBBY I HAD AN AFFAIR 3 YEARS AGO, HUBBY AND I SEPERATED BEFORE ANYTHING PHYSICAL BUT I WAS ALREADY TALKING TO THE OTHER GUY, HE WAS PART OF THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THE SEPERATION. BUT ANYWAY, MY NOT SO GOOD FRIEND DEVELOPED AN ATTRACTION FOR HUBBY, TOLD HIM OF INFIDELITY, WHICH HE SUSPECTED ANY WAY , AND THEN TOLD HIM HOW SHE WAS IN LOVE WITH HIM. SHE TOO WAS HAVE MARRITAL PROBLEMS, CAME OVER ALOT, FOR MORAL SUPPORT , I NEW THE WERE BECOMING CLOSE, BUT WE ALL HAD BEEN FRIENDS FOR YEARS. I WAS PREGNANT AT THE TIME, SO HUBBY DIDNT TELL ME OF THE INFO HE HAD, HE CRIED ON HER SHOULDER, I WAS ON BEDREST, HAD MED. PROB. SO HE COULDNT TELL ME ANYTHING. BUT NOW I KNOW EVERYTHING, I AM JUST SO HAUNTED BY IT ALL, I CAN GET IT OUT OF MY HEAD. IT IS LITERALLY DRIVING ME CRAZY. I CAN SEEM TO HANDLE THE BETRAYAL, EVEN THOUGH I AM GUILTY OF THE SAME THING. THAT SEEMS TO OFFER ME NO COMFORT EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD. EVEN THOUGH HE HAS TOLD ME IT MENT NOTHING, SHE TELLS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY. I STILL TALK TO HER HUBBY SOMETIMES, ALL OF US WERE FRIENDS BEFORE, SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. BUT HER HUBBY SAYS SUCH DIFFERNT THINGS THAN WHAT I AM BEING TOLD BY MY HUBBY, I DO KNOW THEY ARE STILL HAVING SERIOUS PROBLEMS AND THAT IS PART OF THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THERE GAME PLAYING, WE HAVE MADE IT CLEAR WE ARE MOVING ON , OR AT LEAST TRYING AND I BELIEVE THEY BLAME MY HUBBY FOR THERE MARRIAGE BEING DESTROYED. SO THEY PLAY HEAD GAMES WITH ME, I AM BIPOLAR, I TAKE MEDS. SO I AM AN EASY TARGET. I HAVE RECEIVE ANONYMOUS EMAIL, PHONE CALLS HAVE BEEN MADE, AND THE LAST PLOY WAS A LETTER IN THE MAIL. IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY, I CANT HANDLE ANYMORE, ITS ALL I THINK ABOUT, MY HUBBY HAS BENT OVER BACKWARDS FOR ME, AND NEVER THREW WHAT I DID IN MY FACE, BUT TRIED EVERYTHING TO SHOW ME HOW MUCH HE LOVED ME AND THAT THIS WAS JUST THE RESULT OF HIM BEING HURT, THERE WAS NO MEANING BEHIND IT. BUT I CANT GET THAT OUT OF MY HEAD. HOW DO I DEAL WITH THIS? I CANT FUNCTION! I AM TRUELY OBSESSED, PLEASE IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVISE, ILL TAKE IT, I JUST CANT STAND ANYMORE. I FEEL LIKE I AM LOOSING A GRIP ON EVERYTHING, I HAVE THREE CHILDREN THAT NEED ME, AND I AM SO LOST IN DEPRESSION, I JUST CANT TAKE CARE OF THEM LIKE I SHOULD. I DONT KNOW HOW TO LET THIS GO, I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY I OBSESSE ABOUTY DETAILS, THERE STORES ABOUT WHEN IT HAPPENED ARE DIFFERENT, I TEND TO BELEIVE M;Y HUBBBY ,SHE TELLS OF A MUCH LONGER AFFAIR, I BELEIVE TO MAKE HER SELF LOOK LESS SLEAZY, SHE USES THE DEFENCE THAT THEY WERE IN LOVE, SO IT WASNT LIKE " THAT" , IT WAS LOVE, H ASSURES ME , THERE IS NO FEELING, BUT I STILL WONDER. WHAT DO I DO TO LET THIS GO? H HAS BEEN WONDERFUL FOR MONTHS , IF I DONT LET GO, I WILL PUSH HIM AWAY. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

To tewjtm

"My H and I rarely ever fought. We got along great. I would bet there are many marriages out there that are the same way. I like my husband and I did then. I was happy. I thought all was great. The kids were happy"

This could sooo much be me. My H and I have been and are still good friends as well as man and wife. Yes you may think I have been stupid for not noticing the signs of betrayal but my H had just started a very high powered job (thus the younger girl's attention - thought she could use him as a step up the ladder) and I put his moods down to stress. It was acutally guilt....

"My children are the most important thing to me. I will suffer this humiliation(and it is humiliating) and we will both see to protecting our marriage and our love from now on."

My H tells me all the time that I am the strongest person he has ever met. To go through all this pain and still love him, still hold the family together. He cannot believe my strength therefore to see a BS stay in a marriage is not a sign of weakness. It takes some guts I can assure you. It is not the easy way out.

My H is 50% to blame for this nightmare. He tells me that I play not part in him straying. He was never unhappy at home just flattered by a young girls attention and stepped over the line before he realised the result of his actions.

I love my H and I truely believe he loves me. He made a mistake and I forgive him. He is a broken man through all this. She never made him happy or he would not be so ashamed of his actions.

My family. A typical night. Last night we all sat round the dining table, having a meal, my H and I drinking wine. We all listen to music - 60/70/80's, laugh, sing and dance. We are a unit. We are happy after all this s.... how many families do this before an A let alone after.

Katie, *I* thought the marriage was fine because my husband is a major major conflict avoider. He didn't really tell me how unhappy he was because he didn't want to make ME unhappy. Yes, he has made HUGE changes within himself. He has been going to therapy which has helped tremendously. He is much much more open. He sees how she manipulated him, how his head got messed up and how holding things inside are not the best way.

I have never read a study that said that kids are better off in blended families. It is devastating to kids to not have both parents they love. It shakes up their world, it makes them feel insecure. Yes, how a divorce is handled does minimize the negative impact, the younger it happens the better if it is going to happen. You can rationalize it and make it fit your view, but there is no way you can say that it is as good for the kids. Read the post web page this is what happens to children during affairs. I have two children, my 3 yr old daughter asked me "Mommy, why has daddy made you sad, will you ever stop crying?" I laughed once after he came home and she said "Mommy, you are happy again!!" Another time, she said "Is daddy going to love you again?" Yes, I could have been stronger and not cried, but I was dying inside. Yes, I could have looked less like I had been tortured, but within that first week, I was absolutely devastated. I was doing well to feed, bathe and get them where they needed to be. You don't get it, you are on the destructive side of the fence. Not the keeping it together side.

How do I know he will never cheat again? I don't. We do have a better understanding of each other's needs and he has a better understanding of his. He also has learned to understand what motivates women like his OW. His words last night, "she was looking for a good catch, one that was successful and already there(financially and position wise) the fact I was married was inconsequential to her". There are a lot of women out there like her. She wanted a ready made husband, not a 21 year old like herself that she had to go through the young person climbing the corporate ladder with. She also saw her mother cheated on and her dad left. She had no idea where he is. That is a child of divorce and infidelity. That is what I want to protect my children from. The emotional fate of divorce/infidelities that my H and this OW went through. It messes you up for life.

I had a very stable loving home. I am a very stable and loving person. I have a strong moral conviction(I didn't say I was an A #1 Christian) I know right from wrong. I would NEVER have been interested in a married man. NEVER. I would not have an affair now. It is against my core. I have never stolen anything, shoplifted and I can't lie to save my life. Core morals are all the same, the 10 commandments are what morals are.

The Ow was a thief, H agrees, It is a theft to take what is someone elses. You get involved with a married man, no matter what the reasons, what ever he said or did, you are a thief, you are selfish. To me, my husband has the vast majority of blame. She is still a thief and extremely selfish. Even if the keys were left in the car, you don't have the right to steal it.

I am not perfect, I am not a pillar of strength. I know I am not wrong in this instance though.

Ali88,
Frankly, I get sick of your name calling and holier than thou attitude. This specific discussion was addressed to "OW" so why do you even bother to come here? I get the impression from this and other discussions that you're more interested in punishment than understanding and reconciliation. If your desire is to name call and punish, you don't need to come to MB. You're quite a pro at that from what I can see. And yes, I am a BS.

Sociopathic elements is my short answer/opinion.

Tewjtm,

I am not a Bible thumper either, but …

My bible teaches me that when and if I am ready I have to repent and accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior and then try to live a Christ like life. As it is through faith, not acts or works.

Repentance is an act, an act of contrition and an act of penitence. Like you said, it requires that a person REPENT, accept Jesus and then live the faith. All of these are acts and works. I hardly see where carrying on an affair then marrying you affair partner falls into anything that resembles ‘a Christ like life’. But then again people generally can justify anything they do in their own minds.

I just hate to see the awful, hateful things people do to each other and then the perpetrators acting so sanctimonious. Almost like what was done was wonderful or honorable.

Would it be better if he had just left and not pursued his parenting time?

OMG, this is not about you, it’s about a child. Interesting that your take was that I was suggesting that he leave his child and not leave you. No that is not at all the point. At this point it is best that both he and she do the best they can to raise their child. It would be honorable of him to not bring up his daughter in the home of the woman who helped destroy her family of origin. The damage is done. What would be best is if he went to his wife and asked forgiveness, returned to the marriage and gave his daughter an intact home. It would have been best is if he had worked on his marriage from day one with no interference from women who was willing to give him a place to run to. A woman who was more then happy to help destroy his marriage.. and I will not buy that that was not your intent. Your intent is shown by your actions today. Or if he felt that the marriage was such a terrible one that instead of messing around on the side he had acted like an honorable man and left her. In the best of all possible worlds they would get back together and build a viable family for that child. But that is obviously not going to happen.

That’s one thing I really like about Scarlet, she’s come to a point where she gets it and calls it like it is. She knows where she is in her life now and where she was in the past.

Katie is right about the infidelity is a curse and cheating is it's own punishment. The same goes for a marriage that is born of an affair.… that is where the Karma comes in. One of the major things that come out of it is that the solid foundation of trust has been broken. I’ve seen it over and over in marriages founded on affairs. Probably why very few last very long. To jump from one relationship into another is problematic. It does not allow the parties involved to heal emotionally and grow from the hurt they caused and that was caused to them.

Blended families are rewarding.

For who? Certainly not the children in most cases. This is the most outrageous thing I’ve heard in a long time. t the ones I’ve spoken to who have been going through the marvels of divorce and blended families.

In my case I’m dealing with a blended family in which the children were old enough to experience grave damage from affairs. My husbands two children are torn, their mother neglected them for years for her affairs and then abandoned them for the alcoholic OM. And for all that she left him for yet another man. My son has gone through a lot dealing with his broken family… again affairs had a lot to do with breaking up his original family too.

Personally I don't feel it is the divorce in and of itself that harms the children, but the way the 2 parents handle it and each other. There is also research that shows that children that grow up in a home w/ excessive fighting etc. do poorly. A parent can divorce his or her spouse w/out divorcing the children.

Not all marriages that end have excessive fighting. “A parent can divorce his or her spouse w/out divorcing the children.” That’s a cute phrase used by people to make themselves feel better about the harm they are causing. It’s also a phrase used to by parents, myself included to assure a hurt and scared child that their parents are not going to abandon them as the parents did to each other.

From my experience and observations divorce itself does harm children even if the parents conduct themselves wonderfully. Why? Because divorce means that a child, who has formed attachments to 2 parents, in a 2 parent home now has their life turned upside down, has to live in 2 places never having a stable environment. Remember that children depend on their parents for their very existence. When the family splits, it’s a threat to their stability. Divorce also teaches kids that people cannot be depended on, that human relationships are not to be trusted. You can white wash it all you want.. But in most cases divorce is very detrimental to children.

To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw “A cheater’s punishment is not in the least that he/she is not trusted, but that he/she cannot trust anyone else.”

I got some video footage and some reg pictures to send to her mother next week.

Has your STBSD’s mother asked for such photos? Do she and her ex-husband exchange such photos and videos regularly? If the answer to both of those are no, then please do not give her any photos of your home life even if it depicts her daughter. It’s a mean, cruel act.. the underlying message would probably hurt her tremendously.

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

KatHurt,

I’d say that Tew has given all good insight into the type of woman who tries to/breaks up a marriage.

Justjules

I will try to gently make a couple of points to help you get the attention you need. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

1. Look around on your screen and find the new thread button. Begin your own thread and tell your story there. People will be glad to help you. Posting on this thread as you did is called highjacking. People consider that as totaly rude and many won't answer you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

2. Poeple usualy don't answer posts that are in all capital letters.
a)They are too difficult to read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
b)All capilals are considered shouting, and no one likes shouting. They don't read shouts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

3. Break your posts into paragraphs. That makes it much easier to inderstand your thinking. You must help us this way, so we can help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Agape. fudd.

Naive,
Thanks for your response.

For the record on blended families:
In my particular situation, I am a single (never been married) parent who met another single (never been married) parent. we are raising our children together and looking into adpotion at this time. That's what I meant about blended families being a blessing.

Truthfully i've seen the blended family thing go all different ways.

At the end of the day kids deserve a stable loving home to grow up in. There are people who are married who have never cheated who can't provide that.

I think it's about the quality and commitment of the parents that makes alllll the difference on this one.

I think it's wonderful when 2 people marry, remain committed to one another and raise a family. It irks me to read this board sometimes though because there seems to be the assumption that if 2 people are married then it's all hunky dorey. Even if they NEVER fight. Dysfunction may be alive and kicking.

I have a girlfriend who was raised in a family where nobody has EVER been divorced that she can remember. No second cousins, no long lost uncles, nobody. I know her entire family. Not one of them can find peace and contentment for the life of them.

Maybe this is a values issue. Personally, it is my sincerest hope to raise happy, loving well adjusted children. And to be all of those things myself.

I've seen such people (happy & well adjusted) emerge from blended families, gay families, single parent families and nuclear famlies.

Just as i've been angry, confused, messed up people emerge so called "normal" families.

It's allll about the people doing the raising and the commitment that they have to family (not to mention sanity).

JMHO

Oh and another thing on the lives of children of divorce. I don't have to read a study. I AM the child of divorce. One that was handled poorly I might add.

Truthfully, we loved doing every other weekend with my dad and step mom. They were fun (from what we saw) and were not miserable like my mother was.

I THANK GOD that my parents divorced!!!!!! I'm still close with OW and OC (my baby sister). Too bad my father didn't have enough character to pick a wife and stay with her. But I got some wonderful extended family out of the deal.

Like your comment about statistics, people can find examples in their lives to support just about anything they want to. A good, scientific study will interview hundreds or thousands of people to come to their results. That is more meaningful than any one story.

It’s good that you enjoyed going between your parent’s homes. Not all children experience it the same way.

I think it's wonderful when 2 people marry, remain committed to one another and raise a family. It irks me to read this board sometimes though because there seems to be the assumption that if 2 people are married then it's all hunky dorey. Even if they NEVER fight. Dysfunction may be alive and kicking.

I really don’t think that’s the assumption on this board. What I see is that people know that not all marriages are worth saving… that if there is abuse or addictions, there is no viable marriage unless those things are dealt with first. It’s impression that the assumption is that the marriages here are generally absent these pathologies. Indeed, when I’ve seen people come here with true abuse issues they are advised to get help for the problem and be safe before any concern is given to the marriage. The rest of what I have to say here addresses marriages where abuse and addictions are not involved.

There is also the understanding that many marriages seem to drift into disarray… this happens because the couple takes each other for granted and do not take care to nurture the relationship. I see a belief here that in most marriages are between essentially emotionally healthy people. In these relationships the couple can learn new, healthy relationship skills. With these skills they can rebuild a healthy, passionate marriage and a healthy family. The big question is really if both spouses are motivated to do this.

Sure divorce is usually the only viable solution where there are pathologies that are emotionally and some times physically dangerous to family members. But, there is a realization that divorce seldom solves problems; instead it usually just leads to a different set of problems. This is especially true when the couple has children.

Almost everyone I’ve ever known who has divorced with children has expressed that they wish they had stayed with the marriage and worked on it. Why? Because the divorce only created more problems for them and the children. Subsequent marriages were more problematic because of the strain.

I believe that the difference in opinions is that most here would say that having an affair, no matter the state of the marriage, is never justified. No one deserves to be hurt in that matter.

While what I see of those who advocate affairs (or at least who say they don’t but have them anyway), as do many of the OP who come here, is that affairs are a valid way to conduct oneself. They are a valid way to end a marriage. They are a valid way to ‘date’ married or unmarried. That the BS usually has most of the responsibility for the poor state of the marriage. And that somehow the WS is a victim and blameless.

Those are two diametrically opposed views, hence the long thread.