I thank you all for replying. The feelings of most of you all is that it takes two very selfish people to start an A. Two people who for some reason or another want something they can't have even if it is only for a short while.

A fantasy..........A small and meanless bit of excitment in a life which is otherwise stable and steady..........Then reality hits home.....It all goes wrong.

God why are people like this. Why can they not be happy with what they have got and don't go looking for trouble.

Tew,

Yet, it was ok to remain in a relationship w/ him for 12 months while he was still married?

This guy is a guy that I’ve known since I was 13 years old. We an item from 13 – 22. Then went our separate ways. When I was 30 I ran into him again when I was stationed in the same city he lived in. He had filed for and received a limited divorce in the state of Maryland a couple of months before I saw him again. In the state of Maryland they have what is called a limited divorce, the divorce is final. But then after that the couple can work out the details. So for the next year they were supposedly working out the details. It’s a little bit of an odd legal issue. So he was divorced in one sense, but if a couple decides to get back together the divorce can be set aside. I did not know this at the time.

At that time in my life I believed that if a person had received a limited divorce that it was all right for them to start seeing other people. New Mexico has something similar, my ex-H tried to do that in our divorce so he was not responsible for spousal support during the divorce period.

Shoot, the other day I hear Dr. Laura of all people say that if divorce has been filed then the signing is only a formality and dating is ok. I was very surprised to hear her say that. I do not agree with that anymore.

So, for 12 months she knew he was involved w/ you?

They had a limited divorce. He was sharing a townhouse with a male friend of his. I have no idea if she knew he was dating me or not.

But, you did for 12 months.

Only because he had the limited divorce. What I did not know for a while is that he had gone back to her. When I found that out, that is when I got out of the situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you are going after them when they are valnerable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Truth be told... nobody "TOOK" my man... he "WENT". And if I hadn't taken steps to ensure that my H knew that he could be happy where his committment already was, who's to say that he WOULDN"T have been happier with her? I'M NOT DEFENDING TEW, I'M MERELY POINTING OUT THAT AN A IS NOT ABOUT THE BS... NOT FOR THE WS AND NOT FOR THE OP...SO WHY CHANNEL SO MUCH ENERGY INTO TRYING TO MAKE HER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH PAIN SHE'S CAUSED? SHE DOESN'T CARE.

RR,

You have yet to GET this... perhaps that is why you are having a hard time diving head first into recovery. You're missing the forrest for the trees. An OP has NO PLACE in your M, your home or your family, and every time you choose to resent someone with no moral obligations to you, you give her one.

tew,

YOU DO have issues. Maybe you have subscribed to some warped brand of pseudo-empathy for the M you helped to destroy in order to avoid them. In fact, you sound a lot like my H's XOW.. "I told him you guys needed counseling..." Wonder if she whispered that to him while she had her tongue in his ear?

Anyhoo, I give your M to him 5 years. Somebody start a pool in General Questions.

I will say it again... an A is not about the BS, so you can't expect anyone, especially not the OP to take the resposibility they should. Selfish people don't take responsibilty for causing pain if they ultimately get what they want. The ends truly justify the means for these people. But consequently, without husbands and wives who are willing to reach out to men and women they're not married to, there wouldn't be any OPs. DO NOT LOOK FOR THE WHY... IT WILL MAKE YOU CRAZY.

It's based on lies.

OP will say {he} never lied to ME.

It causes pain to loved ones.

OP will say {he} never hurt ME.

ME, ME, ME..... and ME. The entire act is about the OP's and the WS's self absorbed lack of responsibility and committment. I'm glad I saved my M, but I can honestly say that if it hadn't worked, I would have preferred he come to me like a man and do it the right way... leave me, be honest about what it's for, divorce me... and eventually present the OP as your SO in a way that commands SOME respect... rather than lying to me and stringing me along. All of you in this forum know that most WSs can't do that. It's all about what they can get away with, and how much cake they can have. SELFISHNESS by definition excludes EVERYONE else. Don't look for the WHY. You already know what it is.

Randy and ALI,
There is no book, no article, no forum that is going to give it to you. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but if you want to recover.... the why only matters in the context of PREVENTION.... a word that has NOTHING to do with the past. Please don't misunderstand this is not a "get over it" post. I understand that moving forward is the hardest thing in the world to do. But these questions of "why?", "how could she?", and "have you no morals?" are probably the most self defeating aspects of recovery we will deal with.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm done asking them. They just don't matter.

zorweb,
I was not condemming you as to the fact that you also were w/ a MM in the past. Nor, do I doubt the fact that you are telling the truth when you stated it was during his "linited" divorce status - even though that was not pointed out in your initial post to me. The basis of the story remained the same, even though minor details were added to. As is often in my posting. It is hard to give all the details as one would post forever.

I see you made mention of our power of atty. I hope my pointing out my "legal rights" pertaining to her (their daughter) aleviate some of your concerns. I was very thorough in the creation of the approved parenting plan. I have written it to cover future issues as schooling, activities, employment, etc. I tried to spell it all out to avoid future conflicts. Besides those measures and POA are a great way to see that I have the right and ability to secure medical attention for the baby if needed.

She is napping now - goes home today - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> we will miss her dearly as always. Take care. tew

lady,
Truth be told... nobody "TOOK" my man... he "WENT". And if I hadn't taken steps to ensure that my H knew that he could be happy where his committment already was, who's to say that he WOULDN"T have been happier with her? I'M NOT DEFENDING TEW, I'M MERELY POINTING OUT THAT AN A IS NOT ABOUT THE BS... NOT FOR THE WS AND NOT FOR THE OP...SO WHY CHANNEL SO MUCH ENERGY INTO TRYING TO MAKE HER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH PAIN SHE'S CAUSED? SHE DOESN'T CARE.

Good for you anD him. How long have you 2 been in reovery?

tew,

YOU DO have issues. Maybe you have subscribed to some warped brand of pseudo-empathy for the M you helped to destroy in order to avoid them. In fact, you sound a lot like my H's XOW.. "I told him you guys needed counseling..." Wonder if she whispered that to him while she had her tongue in his ear?

In what way do I or did I express empathy for their M? And ys I have issues - don't we all?

Anyhoo, I give your M to him 5 years. Somebody start a pool in General Questions.

WOW! Five years - at least your generous. Most here feel we won't make it to the ceremony - lol.

I will say it again... an A is not about the BS, so you can't expect anyone, especially not the OP to take the resposibility they should. Selfish people don't take responsibilty for causing pain if they ultimately get what they want. The ends truly justify the means for these people. But consequently, without husbands and wives who are willing to reach out to men and women they're not married to, there wouldn't be any OPs. DO NOT LOOK FOR THE WHY... IT WILL MAKE YOU CRAZY.

It's based on lies.

OP will say {he} never lied to ME.

It causes pain to loved ones.

OP will say {he} never hurt ME.

ME, ME, ME..... and ME. The entire act is about the OP's and the WS's self absorbed lack of responsibility and committment. I'm glad I saved my M, but I can honestly say that if it hadn't worked, I would have preferred he come to me like a man and do it the right way... leave me, be honest about what it's for, divorce me... and eventually present the OP as your SO in a way that commands SOME respect... rather than lying to me and stringing me along. All of you in this forum know that most WSs can't do that. It's all about what they can get away with, and how much cake they can have. SELFISHNESS by definition excludes EVERYONE else. Don't look for the WHY. You already know what it is.

Yes, affairs are selfish acts by the OP and WS.

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

I think the OW must have low self-esteem and needs the challenge maybe of stealing a man? My H's OW called me the next morning bawling to tell me how sorry she was, but when I didn't feel sorry for her she turned around and tried to hurt me. Sent me awful emails telling me what a great lover my husband was, once a cheater always a cheater....that kind of thing. Even forwarded me some of the emails that they had sent each other...and she was SORRY!!!??? I refuse to let that woman have any control over me. Who has him now? I am choosing to look at this as a learning experience and make my marriage better than ever. Oh, it's not easy....but I WILL NOT let that worthless peice of SH** ruin my marriage and the life of us and our four kids. She is the one who will have to live with the fact that he didn't leave me for her....I'll admit it's been very tempting to forward her some of the sweet emails he has been sending me since I found out and give her a taste of her own medicine, but I realize that to do so would just show her that she still has some power, that I'm thinking of her.....Sure my H is as guilty as she, but he has never been cruel and is as remorseful as a person can be....I will view her as a bird dropping on my windshield that I washed away!

kng
i just tuned into you this post and not sure of your story. but what does your husband feel! that is the only thing that is stopping me from feeling the way you feel.. is my husband!
i don't want this slut to get the best of me but some how i am allowing "it" to take over! can you respond on my thread re randyrail?
i would really like to know your thought on this matter?
ali

skipped ahead. Didnt read previous. I have a few choice words for OW !@@#@#@*&(())^%**** ALl the curse words arent enough for how I feel at the thought of her. I,m sure she feels she has won now that my H went thru with divorcing me. The story is TOO long. We all worked together. I think they started up long before I realized & her trying to be my "friend" was all part of her plan. We started going to the gym together on Saturdays, until I realized my H & her were purposely meeting on weekday AM's and NOT exercing (in the gym anyway). She was married then & complained how her H was always gone out of town for work. Her son was 2 at the time. I replied to her "how do you stand it? _____ and I do everything together". Looking back, I think she made her mind up there & then to break up my marriage. That it would be a challenge for her to see if she could get this man I was with for 15 yrs, married for 10, a loyal quiet person up to that point - away from me. Witch. She lied to him about things I never said and visa versa. She divorced her H shortly after and mine started talking D after that. She doesnt deserve to have a child the way she treated him. Her only obsession was sex & getting my H to dovirce me.

Someone else who knew her, told me that she is one of those kind. ONly in it for the game. That once my H divorced me, she would probably drop him & move on for the next conquest. I found out she even told her now -ex that she wanted some "to make her feel wonderful. . yada yada." She ruined her childs life. He is like a ping pong ball now - back & forth every few days and she has included my H in that life, having him over there & her at my ex-H's place. (Ex-H refuses to tell me his address, even though its been 7 months he moved out, divorce final since March!!! I was told by others she threatened the child with spanking if he mentioned my ex-H's name to his dad !!(which he innocently had done - my H bought a motoorcycle which he has apparently seen & raved about). The child is 4 or 5 now. What a rotten psycho witch she is. What burns me more is that my H & I never had a child and last yr I had surgery which might have been cancer - as it turned out wasnt, but I had 1 ovary & tube removed and am almost 40. It kills me that she has such a wonderful little boy & treats him so & that she & my ex-H think us spouses are so stupid as to believe their lies.

They are not worth the time of day. No matter how much we think about it and wonder WHY? we will never know. And trust me it is not cause she was younger, thinner, sexier etc. It is that something was wrong with our spouses emotions & morals that they crossed that line. Refuse to have anything to do with her. Do not talk to her. Do not tell her your business. If she calls your home, HANG UP. I hope your H is working to show you that you can trust him again and is willing to gradually bit by bit answer your questions.

There is a lot of talk about "forgiveness" these days. It is not letting the other person off the hook for wrong doing, or that you could EVER forget all the pain it caused; but that you are not going to let anger & bitterness control your life anymore & are letting it go in that sense. I have forgiven my ex-H (though he doesnt realise this OR the EXTENT of it!! He doesnt realize or believe that I know half of what I do about their affair. He constantly denied anything to do with her but the proof was blatant & he was a lousy liar). I would love to see revenge on OW but I dont wish for it or fantasize about it half as much. She is a piece of trash & is not worth my thoughts. Dont give OW a 2nd thought. Work on the issues with your H & please stay open to Counseling jointly for the long haul!

kng-there is no "challenge" in getting a married man. They are easy pickings if one so desires to date one. I have had more married men hit on me than single ones. Not that I take them up on it, but I could have several different dates a week if I wanted to date married men.

Wychywoman,

But doesn't that just gross you out. i was hit on
several times by married men, both before i was married and after. Some of them were very very attractive but the fact that they were married was the biggest turn off.

Hi kat,
Sometimes drugs or alcohol play a part in the "whys" of affairs. People who are not in their right minds tend to take risks without considering the consequences! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have to really agree with stunned-dad at the bottom of page 5 of this thread.

The most meaningful thing for you would be to understand the dynamics that contributed to your WS's affair, you know, try to understand what was going on in his mind and how can you effectively meet his emotional needs in order to affair-proof your marriage from this point onward.

We all have the will to do whatever we want to do. It's difficult to accept, but I think basically WS's have affairs because at that moment in time, it's what they wanted to do.

Good luck in your recovery Ms.kat!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wytchywoman:
<strong>kng-there is no "challenge" in getting a married man. They are easy pickings if one so desires to date one. I have had more married men hit on me than single ones. Not that I take them up on it, but I could have several different dates a week if I wanted to date married men.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK. But on another thread, you said you are the other woman. So, which is it?

I am currently an OW. But I was just saying that married men ask me out all the time. Same thing happens to most other women I know. I do not make a habit of dating MM. But for women that choose to do this regularly, there is no challenge in it. I was just disagreeing that OW's do it for the challenge.

Wytchywoman

Are you proud of what you can do to marriages?

What makes MM easy picking? Would you like someone to pick up your H (if you had one)?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wytchywoman:
<strong>I am currently an OW. But I was just saying that married men ask me out all the time. Same thing happens to most other women I know. I do not make a habit of dating MM. But for women that choose to do this regularly, there is no challenge in it. I was just disagreeing that OW's do it for the challenge.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you're seeing a married man on a regular basis, how are you NOT making a habit out of it?

wytchywoman,

Of course SOME married men hit on any woman they run into all the time. I’ve had men explain to me that the reason is numbers.. if he hits on huge numbers of women then eventually he’ll find one that has low enough morals, self esteem etc to be an OW.

A married man worth having is not hitting on women all the time. So if he does not have enough character to work on his marriage then you (and other OW’en) can have him. Sure good people can fall into affairs. But the good one’s realize that they are making a huge mistake and hurting people. They end the affair and drop the OW.

As for the challenge, it’s not in getting a married man to go out with. The true challenge, as I’ve had it described is one the OW tries to set up between herself and the BS… The message is “see I’m better than the BS, I can steal her man away.”

Well you have fun now screwing up the lives of other people for your own selfish gain.

I just read this whole thread and man was it an eye opening experience for me.

When I was 19, I had a one-night stand with a married man. The length of the emotional affair was about 1.5 weeks and 2 days after he and I had the ONS, he went back to his wife.

To this day, I still recall the gut twisting I felt because I knew what I did was unbelievably wrong. When he called to say he was going back to his wife I was so relieved. I remember telling him that I hope he makes it up to his wife every day for the rest of his life.

Now to discuss my position at the time. I was feeling very depressed and I was running from any kind of relationship that could be binding. I was young and naive and made an incredibly stupid mistake. I was caught up in the fact that here was a guy that found me attractive and their would be no strings. Very sad and pathetic I know, but that describes me at the time.

Now I am paying for it, because my CLH had a 3 month affair on me. I found out 3 weeks ago and I truly believe what goes around comes around and life really bit me in the butt.

I find I think about MM and wife a lot now and I pray they are happy and he is making a good life for her because that is what I need for myself.

I wish no one had to go through this. I wish everyone is strong enough to face the problems in their relationships to try to make them work. No one deserves that kind of pain.

I am still with CLH and I chose to forgive him. I am expecting our second child and I am using this time to do some real soul searching of myself and him and of our relationship. I think a small part of me is forgiving because this is something I wish for myself for my past wrongdoing.

OW is quite delusional, apparently she fully expected me to leave CLH and they would be together now. Even told a freind that she expected her and CLH would be married in 5 years. However, she did not know about the baby on the way. I pray she takes a step back but who knows? She was a person I met though a friend (last July)and she knew right off the hop I was involved and we had a child together, she developed a crush on CLH last Novemeber and things evolved from there. He and I were in the withdrawal stage of our relationship, and were basically just living together. I was not there for him and vice versa. I don't know how many times I thought about just packing up and leaving. It doesn't excuse CLH for what he did but everything he got from OW was what he was wanting from me. She has not contacted/ seen us since the day after he told here we are officially staying together, he's happy and we are expecting our 2nd child. From what other's observed that night, she was very disturbed by this news. (Looks good on her- sorry that is the anger coming out)

Since the night he told me, we have had some important talks and we recognize now that we can never allow ourselves to get in that withdrawal trap again. The basic love is still there, that deep seeded desire to be with the other and grow old together is still there and it is going to take time for him and I to heal but we are on the right track. We are looking forward to the birth of our child as a new beginning and we are taking it one day at a time.

I hope this post helped someone out there, I am really growing as a person as a result from this. I am also focusing on the positive aspacts of the experience otherwise I will drive myself crazy.

wow, so much to take in! i am new to mb. but i was wondering if this whole place is about marriage building, why are any op's who are not working on their marriages even here? i admit in curiosity i have visited the support site, "the other woman". it's a place for ops to talk and get support. but i don't go there and post.

i get a lot of insight from the people here who have had affairs, so don't get me wrong, it is helpful. i just wonder why a single op would be coming here?

my h has had 2 pa's. the first was a mutual desire for fun and excitement and secrecy, she was engaged. it was convenient for both of them. my h said it made them both feel desirable and powerful. they are both children of alcohilcs.

h's second ow was after him in a big way once whe saw our family pictures on his desk at work. she hung on him, and gave him a sob story. she was going through a D. she villified me, lied about me and dared my h to go out drinking with her. then she told him she was horney and could he help her out. he thought he was getting free sex. idiot. she continued her game and succeeded for a while. long long story short, he hates her.

it is my h's fault. he should have said no. but she should not have tried to break up a m to make herself feel better. she is a sad, little person and i don't even wish her ill because she has done such a good job of it on her own. she lost one job, almost lost another, lost a lot of friends and even blew a chance to work things out with her own h.(because she rubbed her relationship with my h in her h's face)

it's best not to even try to understand. we need all our energy to devote to ourselves and our families. it is true that natural consequences can not be avoided.

Well,
I have had kinda encounters with both type of other women, those who want to break the marriage up and those who are simply brain dead.
I am truly that I probably offended the ones who claim that they never knew he was married, and/or didn't want to break up the marriage. But... Look I am sorry, but we BSs area hurting, confused, loving-our-spouses, wanting-them-back-where-they- belong bunch. So please, forgive us and hope to h**l it never happens to you. Nothing NOTHING hurts worse. You opened your self up to this, so...
My most recent encounter with the marriage breaking female was my H's X. I still shudder at the thought. I would have been easier for both of them had they gotten back together as far as the custody thing was concerned (we have custody of all the kids, by her choice) Her ill gotten relationship was getting uglier, it was close to Xmas, she was lonely, my H thought they were "friends" (even after she screwed him over royally). Luckily, the X's untrusting partner (the man she left my husband for) has been recording her phone calls and following her. He caught them together and recorded horrific conversatipons and called me, just before Xmas. She has been trying to break us up from the get go. All she wants, as far as I can guess from the puzzle pieces I have put together, is the trophy child. And a roof over her head. And someone who will turn their back to her antics (my H is guilty of taking her back after an indiscretion and then not insisting on counceling) The 2 bit whore goes so far as to innocently poison my step-babies head about me. Poor kid didn't realize that Daddy and X were not married and never will be again. God only knows what her mother is saying to her. Say a prayer for the little girl, please.
Then there was the other time that an X best friend of mine tried desparately to poison my H against me. That's another story. They did sleep together, Revenge stuff.
Then there is the one from my first marriage, and please BETRAYER read this carefully. He screwed around and screwed around, wanted me to socialize with her ( gosh, why didn't I like her). One day I had enough. I asked him to leave. In desparation, he actaully had the nerve to call the whore, with me in clear earshot, and ask if he could come and stay with her. Ya know what she said? NO! Hmmm..... She had the habit of sleeping exclusively with married men. Could not get even vaguely attracted to single guys, wouldn't even try.
My sad experience is that, out of all the relationships I have ever been in do end with the horrible 80% statistic of affairs.(Gawd, I hate that statistic, now I don't feel so warped cause I thought I was a looser magnet) Most have involved women who just couldn't stand someone having something better than they had. And, what is more attractive than a man devoted to their family and marriage. Then they haven't got to do any of the work themselves, the BS has already found the perfect man for them. In this hectic world, why should they take the time to start fresh and find one of their own? Very rarely did the other not know, or they had been lied to by the man. Ya know, it is over anyway.
There is NO innocence in an affair. There are always ways to figure out if they are married, if you want to know. I am proud to say that I have NEVER broken up any type of relationship and NEVER will. I know how bad it hurts and don't wish it on anyone. Not even my worst enemy.

Hematite 1975

You feel guilt for what you did in the brief A you had. You know the hurt from a loved one's betrayal. I do not think that anyone who has felt that kind of pain would ever want to pass this on.

My H FOW was also married which concerns me as she must not have been committed to her own relationship, let alone making a solid one with my H.

But it is really funny as my H can see no wrong in her. He does not care a bit for her anymore but he will not say a bad word against her. Even though if any of my friends/ or his, had an A, he classed them as lying cheating scum.....In my book that is called that double standard (and I have told him that...)

He has also told me that if I were to cheat on him, he could not be as forgiving as I was. He could not share me with anyone....More double standards......

I don't understand That double standard the cheater often holds. Do you think that it is a smoke screen? And why do they see HER as someone with nothing wrong, yet berate us? There must be something wrong with me if you won't keep it where it belongs, dear H of mine.
Hey, mine went so far as to suggest we be friends, now if we could be friends, then H must have thougt we had something in common, right? Well, what was that exactly. She would be a whore and I am committd to the marriage. H talks her up, "you would like her" "wah wah wah I feel sorry for her she has had it so hard" "hey give ____ a call and have coffee with her" She would have all these probs that he will talk to her about AND H neglects out issues.
Argh!