Although I am rather "embarrassed" to post this, I am thinking that my "thinking" is too emotionally attached so I want to know what someone unbiased would think.
A couple years after we were married, my husband was housesitting for one week and my sister and her husband stayed at the house another week.(They stayed first). He worked second shift and it was not uncommon for him to stop at the local bar even though I did not like it.
After the people got home, I got a call saying that they found a used condom by the toilet in the bathroom. My husband denied it was his and he was so defensive about it, that I really thought it was my sister's and brother in laws so I did not ask them about it because I didn't want to embarrass them.
It did nag at me though but each time my husband denied any knowledge of it.
Ten years later, it came up and my husband admitted that it really was his and that he was embarrassed to admit it because he had used it while masterbating. He said he did stop at the bar and "happened" to find the condom on top of the machine in the bathroom and later that night, "used" it. He swears that is what happened.
Since he hates the feel of those things, and since it just "conveniently" happened to be in the bathroom at that bar, and just "conveniently" happened to be there when he was housesitting... I wondered if I was stupid to believe him?
Would anyone else believe him?
Do guys really use stuff like that for no reason except personal satisfaction?
I am thinking of divorce because of other reasons but am a Christian and only believe in divorce if there was infidelity involved. I am too embarrassed to bring this up to a counselor face to face.
How many believe him? Please advise!

Let's see, guy housesits without his wife, goes to bar and later a used condom is found by the toilet of the house where he was staying without his wife....hmmm. I vote for infidelity. Never heard of a guy using a condom for fun by himself, although others may have more knowledge in this area? Usually guys find condoms to reduce pleasure not induce it. Married guys routinely going to bars at night without wife raises red flags for me. I would agree that you should be doubtful.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: want2shine ]</small>

Hmmm... sounds fishy to me. You are a Christian but you are not stupid. You may want to believe your husband but he lied the first time instead of just fessing up. Why did he lie in the first place? I would believe him IF he didn't lie in the first place so to answer your question, no, I don't believe him.

When is a liar a liar? How many lies does it take to make a liar? I think only one...

p.s. Oh, and masturbating with a condom is about the dumbest thing I ever (EVER) heard of--especially if he's right there at the toilet.

It sounds like when he went to toss the condom, he missed. Plain and simple. He's busted...

Don't let him off the hook. Keep after him until you get the truth--if that is possible... Cheating goes hand in hand with lying. You can't have one without the other. I'm sorry you're going through this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ana:
<strong>Although I am rather "embarrassed" to post this, I am thinking that my "thinking" is too emotionally attached so I want to know what someone unbiased would think.
A couple years after we were married, my husband was housesitting for one week and my sister and her husband stayed at the house another week.(They stayed first). He worked second shift and it was not uncommon for him to stop at the local bar even though I did not like it.
After the people got home, I got a call saying that they found a used condom by the toilet in the bathroom. My husband denied it was his and he was so defensive about it, that I really thought it was my sister's and brother in laws so I did not ask them about it because I didn't want to embarrass them.
It did nag at me though but each time my husband denied any knowledge of it.
Ten years later, it came up and my husband admitted that it really was his and that he was embarrassed to admit it because he had used it while masterbating. He said he did stop at the bar and "happened" to find the condom on top of the machine in the bathroom and later that night, "used" it. He swears that is what happened.
Since he hates the feel of those things, and since it just "conveniently" happened to be in the bathroom at that bar, and just "conveniently" happened to be there when he was housesitting... I wondered if I was stupid to believe him?
Would anyone else believe him?
Do guys really use stuff like that for no reason except personal satisfaction?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! I agree there are some red flags here but don't make a "rush for judgement". It is possible he did use a condom to masterbate...perhaps, he didn't want to take a chance that he might make a "mess" in some else's home. On the other hand, it is very possible (and very likely) he did cheat.

Something else to consider...if you find the topic of masterbation embarassing to discuss, why wouldn't he?? Some consider this topic to be a very private, personal part of themselves and would get very defensive and emabarassed if confronted about it (can also read...I cheated and if I get angry you'll leave me alone).

My point is, you don't have enough information at this point to end your marriage.

IMHO the question should be...Have there been any other red flags since this incident??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ana:
<strong>
I am thinking of divorce because of other reasons but am a Christian and only believe in divorce if there was infidelity involved. I am too embarrassed to bring this up to a counselor face to face.
How many believe him? Please advise!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a Christian you know that Christ taught forgiveness, compassion and at the very least, leave God as the highest judge. Yes, infidelity does break one of the 10 commandments but, it's not necessarily a good reason to end a marriage. If you got married in a church, you promised your H and God that you would stick with him "for better or worse, in sickness and in health etc." This is one of the "worse" times. I'm hoping you didn't expect marriage to be easy/problem-free all the time!?!? I get frustrated when I hear people use Christianity as an excuse to run away from issues, and that is exactly what you are doing. There are many people here at MB...some Christian, some not, who do go on to recover their marriages after A PROVEN INFIDELITY (you aren't even sure at this point if anything happened). If you want to end your marriage then do so but, don't use religion as a "front" to justify your actions.

A marriage should end when you can honestly say to yourself that you did everything you possibly could to make the marriage work. I don't think you can honestly say that, at this point. If there is domestic violence or addiction of some kind then yes, get out now!! Do not place your safety or health (or that of any kids) in jeopardy.

As for being embarassed with a counsellor...don't be. They've heard it all before and I doubt the topic of masterbation would be a "shocker" for him/her. They won't even blush. This person is there to help, that's what you are paying them for!! So, let them do their job, let yourself be helped. You are going to have to "go outside your comfort zone" if you expect the counselling to help.

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

I'm a guy and I've never heard of that way of masturbating, and beleive me, I've heard some pretty crazy masturbation stories in my time (i.e. vacuum cleaners, inflatable dolls, small animals, insects, etc, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) from other men. My vote is that he used it with another woman and after he finished, he simply forgot to throw it away. I say this because the only valid reasons for a man using a condom is to avoid impregnating a woman or to avoid becoming infected with an STD.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>I'm a guy and I've never heard of that way of masturbating, and beleive me, I've heard some pretty crazy masturbation stories in my time (i.e. vacuum cleaners, inflatable dolls, small animals, insects, etc, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) from other men. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> TMCM...men never cease to amaze me!! That being said...women get pretty creative too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>[QUOTE]LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> TMCM...men never cease to amaze me!! That being said...women get pretty creative too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep that's us allright, can't live with us, can't live without us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ana,

I would have to vote for infidelity also. But I just have to ask.... have you always had this conflicting lack of trust or did something else happen recently to bring up the subject? If his behavior as of late is bothering you, try to focus on that. After ten years, I'm afraid that you'll be obsessing over something you'll never know the complete truth about.

There IS hope for marriages that have suffered infidelity. I know that is a difficult thing to understand, but it's true... read the recovery board.

And remember, Ana, as a christian... yes... we are taught that infidelity breaks the holy covenant of marriage so I can see your resons to consider divorce.... but we are also taught to forgive, and take problems we can no longer handle on our own to the Lord.

I was afraid to bring up certain things to our pastor as well... but you know what? He FLOORED me with some of the things he knew about and was able to help us with every aspect of our lives as a married couple. I know it's a leap to feel so vulnerable (especially with a pastor, priest or sister in your church) but in my case... it was well worth it. Please come back if you need help.

Danni

Ana, am wondering if you would be willing to share what are the "other reasons" you are considering divorce? Is it possible you are trying to prove an episode of infidelity so that you will be able to feel you are getting a Biblically sanctioned divorce when really you want a divorce for reasons you feel are less valid? I am just curious about this. Otherwise, a nagging suspicion of 10 years would likely mean you have other reasons to question his faithfulness. Looking back in my own life, there were only LITTLE clues that might have pointed out my husband's unfaithfulness, so I can't encourage you to disregard this clue.
TMCM--INSECTS?????!!!! (lol followed by slight gag)

Once or twice I have used a condom, when it was important that I not leave ANY mess at all. There isn't any other means to do that that is foolproof. He was in another person's house, so it IS possible that he used it as a way to prevent anything from getting onto their stuff.
I agree with what the others are saying, though, it may be a possibility but not a probability. Are you looking for the truth, or a way out of this marriage?

Thanks everyone for your opinion. It means alot. This happened a long time ago, but it has always caused some suspicion to me and has deeply affected my trust in him. When he had admitted this, it was several years ago, not just recently. I wanted to believe him with all my heart. Some things happened after that. One was that he came home and said that he saw his ex girlfriend's son walking and his walk reminded him of him! That young man was only months younger than my daughter and they were in the same grade! When I said that to him, he said he didn't realize that they were that close in age and no, it couldn't be his son. But, that condom haunted me as this would make the timing so that it really could be his son! But, I wanted to believe him... He was so positive that it couldnt be when he found out the age. (When I had dated him, his ex girlfriend had been married but they did get together briefly just over a year before we started going out. Yes, that meant he committed adultry then.
We had a good life together in many ways except that I never felt 100% that I could trust him and this bothers him. He is constantly saying I am accusing him of things.
As a result, he is VERY passive agressive. He will go for days or weeks not talking to me if he gets mad at something I did. He'll go someplace and not tell me where he was, do little things to get back at me, ignore me when I'm sick (I was waiting for tests results because I had cysts on my ovaries and my husband STILL never asked about it! If he knows I like something -such as I told him that I loved the way he gave a massage or something, he'll make sure he never does it again and he has excuses such as his hands ache too much, etc. He ignores me very much when he's "angry". The thing is, he'll get mad at not so much what I'm saying -- he'll take a word or two out of context and use to to fit his interpretation and when I try to defend myself, I am a "liar." There is no peace when someone is doing that to what you say. I have gotten to not be able to show emotion when I talk (can't talk faster, higher pitch, etc even when I'm upset. I have to talk as if I'm in an every day conversation, even if I'm scared or upset. Otherwise, he says I'm "ranting" at him (even if it's not about him!) and then he's off with my "punishments". One was going on a week's vacation with his friends (to Las Vegas - a place he told me he hated when I mentioned going) when he has only gone on a long vacation with me only once.
We tried counselors and I got to hear how horrible I was - one was that i "read the sunday paper for two hours in my robe" - the counselor tried to understand him but couldn't and when it made my husband look like he was doing something wrong, my husband quit going. My self esteem is so very low that people are remarking on it - which makes it worse!
I'm walking in egg shells constantly. Have to explain why I allowed someone to fish in our pond (my daughter's boyfriend) and why I want to drive our luxury car instead of my little car, etc etc. I can't be myself and most of all can't relax. My doctors literally take me by the hand and tell me that I have to relax because I have a precancerous condition that is aggravated by stress. My husband blames me for my condition too. I feel I'm married to a rebellous spoiled teenage boy.
On the plus side, I was accepted into nursing school. It's very stressful but I love the patients and find it rewarding. If I can last out this marriage another year, I will have decent income when I graduate. It's just that its hard to study when he's mad at me for such stupid things. I keep wanting to "fix it".
(In case you're thinking I'm only blaming him - I'm not. I did go to counselors for my part in things for a long time. My husband literally does get mad at really dumb things and always says that my actions, etc are directed at him. It's odd to me how my conversations of other things or people end up about him all the time.
(BTW - he gets alot of his customers from me, he depends on me to do his paperwork for his business (he is a terrible speller/writer), etc. I was told that he most likely resents me and how much he depends on me. I depend on him financially right now though)

I see that you guys have been married for at least 10 years... Exactly how long have you been married? Did you get married young? It sounds like a communication class would REALLY help! If your husband is interpreting everything you say through his filter that needs serious adjustments, then I don't see how you can win.

I have done that to my husband and it is a form of verbal abuse, I think... No, I admit. It's a way of manipulating someone and it's not right.

You must really love your dear hubby! But it's no excuse for him to keep on this way. Have you thought about how you can state your case in a way to get his attention? Have you guys explored the emotional needs questionnaire provided on this site? You should check it out! It really helped us a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Trust your intuition. I'm living through a very similar situation and unfortunately my husband had to hit rock bottom and take the whole family with him before he admitted to the truth. Whenever I had suspicions over the years he always manipulated me into backing down or turned it around into me being the one that was in the wrong by being too controlling, etc. When we went to counselors, his complaints about our marriage were about as ridiculous as your husband's complaint about you sitting around in your bathrobe reading the paper. My husband is a doctor and his infidelity and lying finally caused him to have trouble with the state regulating board. He has been going through several treatment programs for over five months. We are almost at the point of bankruptcy now. He was so sick that he even tried to fool a lie detector test that was required by one of the programs. He finally broke down and told me the truth about his infidelity. The truth hurts, but it's also somewhat comforting to know that you haven't been crazy in your suspicions.

A book that has been very helpful to me is An Affair of the Mind by Laurie Hall. Although it is written about her husband's addiction to ography, it also seems to apply to my situation. She describes our conscience as our "God-designed early warning system" that "senses when something is good or evil apart from any data to confirm the hunch". With the description of your husband's verbal manipulation, it sounds like he could be hiding the truth and taking advantage of your trust. I would listen to your conscience more than I would listen to someone who manipulates the truth for his own benefit.

I have done the condom thing for most of my adult life. Several guys I know do also.

This does not answer your original question, but I would like to give you a little advice that I learned the hard way concerning that "little voice" inside your head.

I believed my XWH that he was just "friends" with his OW (who was also married) and he, as your H seems to be doing, found fault in EVERYTHING I did. Anyway, I consider myself a fairly intelligent person (IQ in 130's), and I am a high school math teacher who loves her job, but this man I had married made sure he verbally abused me and brought me down so low that I couldn't see straight. He would say I was stupid, unattractive, etc (usually he said these things when we were in an argument, but still it was very damaging to my self esteem). I became VERY insecure, but most of all, I did not trust myself anymore. When I found out the truth of his infidelity, I was probably most angry at myself for not trusting ME. I had put him ahead of me in every way, and I was completely miserable. I loved him, and still do as he was my high school sweetheart and the only guy I've ever been with and loved. I suppose I love him unconditionally, but I've learned he is not who I need to be with anymore. Of course, he filed the papers, so I didn't even take that in my hands, but now I realize that I can still love him, but also know that he was not good for me.

Please learn from my situation. Trust yourself, and, as you stated you are a Christian, trust GOD first. I will do that from now on. If your instincts are wrong, then he will forgive you if he is supposed to be with you. That's MHO. You can love someone, but that may not be the best person for you...

Take care,
Kim

PS, In my case, my self esteem rose a lot after getting away from the verbal abuse. I found out that people thought I was very intelligent, personable, and beautiful, and many people tell me that he is the one who lost out on the deal. Also, it helped to know that I'm still attractive, after years of being treated as if I was a dog, having men ask me out in just a few short months. Although I wasn't ready to begin dating, it really flattered me after being treated so horribly by the man I loved for so long.

The condom is used for this purpose. If lubricated it helps and is much neater when finished.