What you have done, breaking off the affair and coming here and posting took a great deal of courage. I wish more OW were like you and could take that step and see what they are doing. <P>------------------<BR>Give to the world the best you have, and the best will come back to you.<BR>* Viki

Mia , God bless you. I know what you did was very difficult for you. I wish you were my h ow.his ow keeps telling him how right it is for them to be together. You are a much better person than she is.My h thinks she makes him so happy but he has been miserable since this affair started a year ago. Why can't he see that. Now you will be able to find someone who is free to be your love without all the strings attached. I wish there were more ow with your wisdom.

I truly can understand the pain that Tired Lady is feeling. The betrayal of having her safety here on this board invaded.<P>But what about this? What if Mia had never come here? What if she had never realized the pain and hurt she was causing? What if she was STILL in the affair with TL's H?<P>Yes, Mia was WRONG for her affair, no questions asked. But what if TL had a choice between Mia coming here and reading/posting OR continuing the affair? I believe if Mia had not come here, she would still be in the la la land that all betrayers/OPs are.<P>Mia can never make up for the pain she's created, but atleast she's realized what she did. That should count for something. Many OP will NEVER admit they did something wrong.

Maya,<BR>you said everybody was nice and compassionate to Mia before we found out who it was. Not me. i have not been here too long, but I would'nt have praised her for comng here, she knew TL was here, and has invaded TL's privacy. There are many other forums Mia could go to, to get help for herself. Yes, it was nice of her to say she was sorry, but here? TL was here first, this is her place that she comes to for support.<BR>Mia knew this.I am not 2 faced, I never thought she belonged here.<p>[This message has been edited by patty co (edited August 25, 1999).]

<BR>TL was here FIRST? This now sounds like kindergarten. <P>

Yes, having TL and Mia post here poses a conflict of interst. <P>Maya, I think it was great that you offered Mia support through e-mail. (to those of you thinking she doesn't deserve support, she may not be able to stay away and resist TL's H without support from people like Maya who have been in her shoes)<P>Yes, there are other boards. But again I ask the question: What if she never came here and realized the pain she was causing?<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

I'll try and say this again - I DID try to offer an appology via any other means except here. None of them were welcomed. TL would agree with me on this one. I have NOT been in contact with her H in about 2 weeks (other than a current project which requires I attend a weekly status meeting on, so that would mean I've "seen" him twice, but no talking)<P>Shoni mentions that if I had not come here I would still be in "la la land". Not true. I had already come to my decision before I read any of these posts. Gladimadeit says that I must still be in contact or how would I know about this place...I was told by TL's H that she was communicating with others in similar situations at his site about a week before I ended this relationship. So, no, we are not currently communicating...it was a decision I made alone to somehow communicate my appology to TL and know she would see it. TL wouldn't give me an opportunity to appologize to her in a more personal way. I really wish I could have. I think I stated this before too. I don't ever expect that she accept responsibility for my being involved with her H. I have taken that responsibility. I think I've made that clear. I am very sorry to everyone. I can't keep saying I'm sorry forever. <P>

WOW, this is a hard one, because what it comes down to is that EVERYONE is hurting. What makes me the most saddest is the fact that the betrayed are so willing to forgive the betrayer but we hate and loathe the OP that the betrayer had the affair with. It was up to the betrayer to protect his marriage, to say no, and yet we make it in our mind that the OP was a temptress or temptree (for male) and that the OP is to be the hated one forever. All situations are different, but if the OP was being told certain things about a MP then how are they to know what is really going on in the married person's home. If the OP didn't care and continued such selfish behavior, it still doesn't matter because the MP should still have been the one to say NO and protect his/her family. hope i didn't drag on and lose the point i was trying to make. All I can say is that I understand BOTH sides, and Mia has made the OP into a human with feelings which is why this makes things so much harder for some to lash out. Tired Lady i understand where your hurt and anger comes from also and yes it is normal...just ride it out.

Maya,<BR>Take a deep breath, relax. You seem to have changed, what is up with you?? You are verbally attacking anyone who does not agree with everything you have to say. We are all welcome here, we all have the right to say what we want, but we need to respect everyones opinion, whether we agree with it or not. we do not have the right to be disrespectful to those who have their own opinions.Relax, have a drink, bring the old Maya back!!!!! and smile :-)

I think I can feel the pain that Tired Lady does. I don't think there is any thing that the OM could really do to help. But, I would like to see at least an iota of remorse from the SUM*****, and for that I have to give Mia a little bit of credit. Sorry Tired Lady I really do know how you feel.

Maya...sorry to upset you. I sould have posted to TL's post...didn't see it. I will say, as may have already been pointed out, that MC has yet to reveal that she is Marriage Building...is she? Did I miss that?<P>------------------<BR>Joan

As I read this post and the threads, I experienced so many emotions... so much pain and then anger.<P>First of all, to Mia's Choice:<P>While I appreciate you having the heart to end this affair and recognizing the pain that you have caused TL, where was your heart when you were destroying her life? Why is it that women don't recognize that a married man is OFF LIMITS. Where is your morals? If you are not sure about what is right and wrong, ask yourself if you would be proud of what you are doing if other found out. I don't want to stand in judgement of you, but I too have been betrayed and I feel condemned to a life of insecurity, mistrust, hurt and disillusion. I don't understand why the bonds of marriage aren't always respected. AND YES I KNOW that it has to start with the Husband or Wife. <P>Mia - you can never understand the horrible feelings that go along with being betrayed. I hope that you will NEVER DO SOMETHING like this again and I pray that you have learned your lesson. I would like to suggest that you read your bible and pray to God for forgiveness for he is far less tolerant than us of infidelity. He holds marriage sacred and so should we.<P>And to Maya:<P>Your comment about TL having her only angry post going elsewhere was very RUDE!! TL has earned the right to have 100 angry threads going. Her marriage, her self-esteem, her trust, has been destroyed. <P>Since you are also a betrayer, No wonder pain is pain is pain to YOU. Maya, please be informed that the pain a betrayer inflicts is like no other pain you feel. It can't be soothed by making promises, I love you's, or even millions of dollars. The damage is irrepairable and it cuts way too deep. So in the future, please keep your sarcastic comments to yourself, because there are many of us angry at this forum. And If you don't like it.....<P><BR>And Finally, Tired Lady:<P>As I was reading this post and your reply. I was sobbing. I felt that my heart was breaking. You have my sympathy, and my support. Surely, you have gone through enough. It is not easy to walk even a step in our shoes, but obviously God has felt that we were strong enough to bear these burdens. I want to say the right things to you, and give you the magical answer to all of your problems. But I can't, so plese know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Try to forgive Mia and let go of your anger. Pray to God, TL. Let him have the burden of forgiving Mia. She has to make her peace with God too. I love you. Stay Strong.<P>I have not meant to offend anyone here. Please forgive me if I have done so.<P><BR>Luv, Liza<P>Never fear because God walks right beside you and if you get tired, he will lift you up and carry you.<P>[This message has been edited by liza (edited August 25, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by liza (edited August 25, 1999).]

I have been unfortunate enough to have been on both sides of the fence. For those who don't know, my H cheated on me from the time I was 7 mos pregnant with our first child until our baby was 7 mos old. While I spent 6 days in the hospital with staples in my stomach from an emergency C-section, H spent that time with OW. I begged H to spend time with me. I didn't find out until months later that when H let me lay there alone, hour after miserable hour, he was spending time with HER. We didn't get help and our marriage never recovered. 6 years later, I betrayed my H. I have to say, the pain I STILL FEEL from H's betrayal is far worse than the pain I feel as a betrayer.<BR>We could debate until Tempest was forced to close this thread. It saddens me to see this forum turn into a place where it's betrayer vs betrayed. Yea, we're going to have differing opinions. We should keep in mind that we're all hurting, just in different ways & varying degrees.<BR>I almost left this forum because I didn't have the courage to wear my betrayer hat. I never had a problem posting as someone who was betrayed. However, posting as a betrayer, aka the minority here, I was afraid to write what I really wanted to. I was afraid to be looked down on. I already feel like scum...or the bacteria that eat it. I not only feel that I have a scarlet "B" on my chest; but, it's branded into my forehead! So, I can see TL's side AND I can relate to MC's, although my OM is single. What makes this tough is MC IS the OW, who along with TL's H, has caused her so much heartache. I can't blame TL from feeling the way she does. What's that old expression? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?" Only MC knows what her motive was by lurking, reading TL's posts and then posting herself. While she's certainly free to do so, I think it was a bad "Choice" for Mia to post here along side TL. MC found out about this site thanks to TL's H. I see an invasion of privacy here. MC posting just hit too close to home for TL. Now I've thrown my opinion into the hat. <P>------------------<BR>For I know the thoughts I think<BR>toward you, saith the Lord,<BR>thoughts of peace, not of evil,<BR>to give you an expected end.<BR>Jeremiah 29:11<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Kyra (edited August 25, 1999).]

I have to admit I would feel the same way TL feels. And yes I do feel that you seem to be remorseful. BUT these wounds are still fresh, You just broke things off with TL's H. Maybe if TL and H were stronger together now or further down the road to rebuilding their marriage maybe then she could forgive. But when we post here we pour our hearts out, we ramble on & on - just going on our emotions. So for you to read her inner most thoughts, her hurt, her fears was wrong. You intruded in on her thoughts this time not just her H. My jaw dropped when I read this. Everyone has a right to post.. betrayed/betrayers alike. It does help to hear from the other side and if you stumbled onto this site and TL was here and neither knew thats one thing but to come here knowing and seeking out her posts was wrong in my opinion. The way you chose to apologize was selfish. Do you want TL to forgive you so that YOU will feel all better. I believe you are sorry but you need to understand the depth of the pain you helped to create and leave TL alone...When and if TL decides to forgive that is for TL to know and I doubt she will ever share that w/you. If you are sorry then you need to forgive yourself and stay away from TL's H.<P>Just my opinion... Magoskid

Maya: AMEN!<P>IOH: What 'Maya' are you talking about? Can't say that I see anywhere where she insinuated that anyone shouldn't be here. This is an 0-P-E-N F-O-R-U-M. For the betrayers as well as the betrayed. For the hurt-ers as well as the hurt-ees.<P>And speaking of hurt: It's pretty easy to say, "MY hurt is worse than YOUR hurt! You can't possibly understand!" Well, you're right. None of us can understand the depth of another's hurt, even another one in a similar situation--much less a different situation. That, I think, is what this forum's for--not only to co-miserate, but to understand "the other camp" as it were.<P>The only sure thing about pain that I know is, when it's YOUR pain, it's pretty damn bad!

Is understanding the other camp a oneway or a twoway street? <BR>And why do there have to be camps? I thought we were here to build marriages. Isn't that one camp? M A R R I A G E B U I L D E R S.<BR>How is everyone's marriage doing?<P>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited August 26, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited August 26, 1999).]

I think that the problem is that we betrayed people can't trust that Mia is really sincere. If she is sincere in her regrets and resolve to stay away from TL's H, more power to her. There is something I would like to propose to Mia, though.<P> I have seen OW break off with the MM (cut him off while he's hot for her) so that he will be more likely to leave his wife for her. <P>The proposal I have for Mia is this:<P>If TL's H should manage to contact you, are you willing to tell him, convincingly, that even if he divorces TL, he has no future with you?<BR>

Sweetpea:<P>The answer to your question is "YES", without any reservations.