Hi. Starf*sh,
Thanks. Will post to you as well. I think that Used and I should probably move to Plan A and Plan B. That is where most of my post are. But also we both are actually in Plan A.
We're Plan Aers trying hard to make it work now. So I will post to Usedfor26yrs about this.

I have a ? related to your post back.
(Starf*sh quote in italics)

"but it's really not the best board for active affairs"

Though I have concerns about WF totally having OW out of his system, from cell phone records and what he says (which I take somewhat skeptically) A was to have ended almost 3 weeks ago.

My skepticism is based on 2 reasons:
1) WF told me this before. So I guess I don't want to just totally believe it and be oblivious to possibilities. Though this time it was more convincing in his confession and promise to myself and OW H. Plus I have no proof of C as it stand right now.
2) A didn't end as I feel it should've.
No NC letter was sent, though WF was very repentent in words and somewhat in actions. Also verified NC on cell by cell comp.

Do you consider WF A is active because I am skeptical and NC letter hasn't been sent? Or were you saying that because it is recently ended it would be best to be on a board that deals with active A?

Free,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No NC letter was sent, though WF was very repentent in words and somewhat in actions. Also verified NC on cell by cell comp.

Do you consider WF A is active because I am skeptical and NC letter hasn't been sent? Or were you saying that because it is recently ended it would be best to be on a board that deals with active A?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The NC letter is a big thing. Why didn't he send one? And yes, if you can't verify NC, I still consider you to be in deep enough crisis that the EN board is not for you.

Free...The Plan A/B board doesn't get much traffic, and the majority of knowledgeable posters don't spend much time there. GQII would be a great choice though, (probably better than here really) and there are lots of folks there in Plan A and B. They also have some great vets....Orchid, TMCM, 2long, Mortarman. The EN board is the not a good place for folks dealing with infidelity....huge traffic volume but the most likely place to get inexperienced advice. It's the "chat room" of MB LOL....and the best place for people who just want to learn to meet needs better, negotiate better....or talk about sex problems.

The thing to always remember....is that this is not marriage therapy and to ask lots of questions and be willing to challenge advice...as you have already done.

Okay....back to recovery....Many marriages survive affairs only to fail in recovery, because they fail to have a recovery plan. The first part of recovery...pre-recovery is ending the affair...in the right way. Right now your H is still in withdrawal, so moving forward with marriage building may need to go slowly until he is over the affair. The no contact letter helps puntuate the end of an affair....give it formal closure which helps with that process. If you don't have a plan in place....you will end up with the same vulnerable marriage that helped create the affair. You may be in Plan A right now, because it's only been three weeks since the affair ended....but where are you going? Has your H agreed to counseling, because you need it to help get him on board.....especially since it appears he had to meet zero conditions for the marriage. You're going to need to backtrack again I think....or your marriage will still be at risk.

Starf*sh,

Hi. Thank you for being clear on the points.

First, thing burning in my mind. How'd you know he had to meet zero conditions for the M? Don't answer that.

We did go over some concepts prior to. H also agreed to MC. However only a short while later and he is already hesitant about discussing more.

So I feel many things are falling on me. So from my standpoint I am reading and studying MB. Also I am making personal changes.

Now about WS. He was very hesitant to send NC letter. Felt it would be useless. I sort of felt that way too. In the past when he was to cut off contact he told OW in my presense that he was not going to contact her. Then they began talking again. It was like it drew them closer.

I have been able to verify NC by way of cell phone, but I am still skeptical. There are other ways to use the phone. Also has been somewhat convincing that A is over. However there are 2 things that concern me.

1. WS feels like everything should just be alright. Doesn't understand that he needs to allow me to help him go through withdrawal.
2. WS is somewhat reluctant to talk about it now. I mean, I LB a lot about it before and I think for me to mention it now makes him nervous.
My next step? Besides what I can do, I really don't know. Thank you again Starf*sh for insight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Free,

Wow, when I read your post I could see my situation in yours. My WH reluctantly confessed to an EA w/ someone, wanted to put our marriage back together, went to counseling, and then didn't want to talk about it. He didn't want to do the hard work necessary to put our M back together.

He saw no reason whatsoever to send a n/c letter. And as far as trusting him w/o verification, well his word just simply isn't enough. I don't mean to alarm you, but I wouldn't go by cell phone records alone. My WH had many hidden email accounts including IM accounts so he could talk "live". He never told me about any of that even after he said he wanted our M to work. He has also charged on his credit card certain calling cards for long distance. But you can buy calling cards anywhere.


Your WH has to become completely honest w/ you and open. We had a false recovery b/c I was scared, wanted him home, and didn't want to "rock the boat". Don't let him sell you on the idea that n/c isn't necessary at this time. BULL. My pastor even told him that if he had feelings for another woman at all, he had to apply all measures of protection so that contact is not a possibility. He told my WH that this is not an option!

Keep working on yourself and make those positive changes in you. I like the changes in me. I like the person I've become over the past year so that w/ or w/o my H in my life, I will be ok.

I hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I just see a lot of similarities here. God bless you, stay strong.

freetobe I found you HAAA

OK so now we are here I sent you a email

Had to post on the En board also.
LoveMyEx is feeling sorry for my husband's OW.

Have no tears for my OW

Anyway. Yes I know you did the contact for the NC letter. Didn't work did it ??

We did the NC letter and then did it again in person in her and her husbands yard.

One week later they called each other.
you asked how I feel because it is down to once a week - same as if it was everyday.

We talked some about it last night
and how even one phone call puts us back to step one. I think he might be getting the ideal now.

Also said if he gets a feeling to call her call me instead I will talk all he wants even come out to him if he wants.

I also can't completely trust him either
said it was over mts ago another lie.

And yes mine was caught with his cell phone.
But there are many ways to use payphones other phones.

My Husband says he loves me and will fix this.
And will stop with the contacting her.

MY ANSWER TO HIM IS ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS

All I feel we can do is our plan A and work on
their en's.
My Husband is filling my en's
and I am filling his.

If I hadn't of been doing a plan A he would of been gone by now. I know that for a fact.

Started my plan A in Aug.2003
And have gone from I am leaving you and love someone else.

TO I love you and I will fix this and we will have a good marrige
No Divorce and not wanting to leave me any more

When the OW husband called last week I flat out
asked him if he wanted a Divorce still and wanted to leave to be with her

His answers were NO.

So one baby step forward for me.

free,

You asked how I know....and truthfully....I don't. But you don't spend as much time as I do mentoring couples fighting infidelity and spending time on this board without developing some good instincts and recognizing patterns. You did say these two things:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WF told me this before. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A didn't end as I feel it should've.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And they speak volumes. Let me ask you a few questions that will help me understand where you are. And used for 26 years and lkjm3 you guys answer them too.

You say that originally he ageed to MCing...and now is not following through. This is very very typical. Have you used radical honesty to confront him about how this makes you feel? Have you asked him if it would be all right for YOU to make an appointment and if he will accompany you there?

Of course he just wants to put this behind him...but have you used radical honesty to let him know your feelings about needing information and understanding? Have you spoken to him about what steps will help rebuild trust in your relationship?

Has he changed his cell phone number and give you access to his email passwords? Has he become accountable for his time and money....giving you a schedule of his time, let you see his credit card bills and cell phone bills? Or is he still being closed and secretive?

If the A is work related, has he agreed to change departments or change jobs? Has he done other things to avoid contact with the OW? Or is he expecting you to just accept the fact that he still has contact with this woman?

Here is a biggie: Have you two sat down and SCHEDULED at least 15 hours of undivided attention a week alone with each other? Without following the Rule of TIME....recovery will elude you. Without time you can't build compatibility, fill needs, negotiate, settle conflicts etc. Most couples let this fall by the wayside....and when I tell you it is an essential ingredient to good recovery....that's an understatement.

So let's start here and I'll have a better idea about how to help you get where you want to go.

OK here we go

#1 - My Husband is working on my EN's and I have
been seeing alot of improvements.
And I am working on his EN's and he says he
is happier now then ever before.
#2 - Can't do the counciling yet - (we both had a really bad time with a counciler away back --another story)
#3 - Yes we have had talks of rebuilding trust
it's not going to be easy and actions speak
louder then words
#4 - cell phones - yes I had all the passwords
and he let me check them any time I chose
(that's how they got busted)
(til Friday and I drowned them)
these are from his work so he will get
new ones - nextel with same number the other
one will be new - says he won't call her
thats the only way she will get new number.
#5 - Yes is accountable for money
(thought with time also) But he still had
found time to sneak away to be with her.
(my time problem is from 6am - 6pm)
during normal work hrs. When he is on the
job (he's the boss) and goes between jobs
He is ALWAYS home on time and never gone
on week ends.Never on a computer does
Road work building roads.
#6 - No credit cards - no cellphone bills (co)
#7 - NO not job related
#8 - YES we have our 15 hrs a week plus some
and that was one of my EN's time so he has
been really good about spending time with
me.
#9 - we did the NC letter then again in her and
her husbands yard. Still contacted each
other a week later

#10 - The other woman - that is our only problem
But I think maybe he might be listening now
cause Sat. I told him you said we are back
square one and I was depressed and he really
listened that one phone call did it. It has
to be NC completely are we will stay at
square one.

We talked again last night and he said he was really going to work on our marriage and how much he loved me.And I also mentioned if he wanted to call her just call me I will talk to him anytime and if he needed me to come out to him I will. And he knows he has to stop with the contacting her in any way.So that went very well I think.

I really think we are going to get tru this
It will take time !!!!!!!
They had 13 mts to get were we are so it will take time to get out of it.

Hi Usedfor26yrs,

I am posting before I go to read my email.
Are you good with posting right here? Starf*sh will look in on us as she can.

"YES we have our 15 hrs a week plus some"
"My Husband is working on my EN's and I
have "

Sounds good. You guys are making some strides.
WF and I will talk a little more about these also.

How does he feel about the A and ending the once a week call?

["The other woman - that is our only problem"

Used. I can't tell you how many times I got side-tracked looking at the OW. Indeed she was a part of the problem.

When my WF would try to resist contacting her he would stop calls and allow me to help him by giving me his cell phone. Then she would find another way to contact him. Next thing I knew he wanted the cell phone back.

During these times I wasn't knowledgeable myself, as to what I was suppose to do. So I LBed something wicked. I didn't understand:

1. He was trying and I needed to support him.
2. He was just as Guilty as her for restarting contact. He needed to he held accountable. It wasn't her alone. And make ammends.
3. We needed to discuss what caused slip up and revise our plan for NC.
4. Radical Honesty had to be enacted in that very moment. In that very time. I needed to allow him to tell me he was addicted. I was in denial. My thought was that he had better not fix his mouth to tell me he loved her and was addicted. What!
5. My ego, instinct, emotions were not to be trusted at all.

Used, I'm saying this for both of us. OW seems like the most menacing, destructive force to battle against in this. However WS has choice.
The battle is convincing WS to decide then act to get OW out of their, our lives. So that NC letter does work (hey that was a light bulb moment for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

You don't have to care about her. Also I know this sounds crazy, try not to hate OW. You will waste your energy. And really she is not your/our concern. But we do have to be concerned about the part our WS play in working with us to rebuild M.

As it stands we have to work with them. Be their counselor/teacher in laying down foundation for change. Then be their cheerleaders to help spur them on. Hum, now that has its benefits (maybe do a little cheerleader role playing at same time, you know). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok you've noted what H is doing from the post Starf*sh sent. I will ans below.
We need some improvement and some implementaion of all of these items.

"Recovery After an A."

First Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A former lover:

We did:
Discuss him not having contact but instead Tricky part, I didn't explain that he will be tempted but has to resist craving.

1. Honesty

Haven't talk about when it he is most tempted to contact OW.
Haven't talked a whole lot about withdrawal lately. Did at onset of NC.

2. Account for your Time

Haven't talked to him about being accountable for his time.
Most of the time I know where he is but would like to know more.

3. Spend as much of your time with your H as possible.

We do spend all of our free time together.

Ok, Used- how about the 4 Rules to guide Marital Recovery. What'd you think?

Other posters seem to be getting you upset. I think they are many times just wanting to share. But we are all human may offend sometimes when we mean well. Maybe take what you feel is pertinent and leave behind anything that isn't.
Going to email now.

Thanks freetobe
I am watching my email for your reply.

I know REALLY that this has to be done by him
and that HE has to REALLY want it.

If he wants our marriage to work enough and loves me enough it won't matter what the OW does or doesn't do.

I don't waste as much time on her as I did when I first found out.

I focus on my H mainly now.
Just seems once a week or once every two weeks
something comes up with her.

I do believe we might of really done some major
understanding this week end thanks to star.

But like everything time will tell.

I think that is really the worst part is the time
and why it takes SOOOOO long.

I am seeing improvements
Just we aren't totally off step one.
And I can't pull him with me.

And he won't let me leave
So all I can do for now is keep trying

Oh my gosh!! I feel like my situation is utterly hopeless and that I've been duped for far too long!

1- Yes I used radical honesty to confront my WH about how he makes me feel. He minimized my feelings and wouldn't let me express myself even when I stopped LBing.

2- I continued to go to MC even after he stopped. He was still in the home at that time. He gave me absolutely NOTHING to work with and my plan A and the 1st plan B letter I wrote to him he called ridiculous. I was doing this (and still am) all alone.

3- The answer to the following questions regarding open access to passwords etc...
Email passwords- NO
accounting for time and money- NO (says that I am too controlling by wanting this)
Credit card statements- NO
Cell phone bills- NO. He even cancelled the
credit card that I was able to discover and
opened a new account w/o telling me.


He remained extremely closed and secretive.

He wouldn't spend 15 hours of time alone w/ me b/c there was always some "meeting", "important business", and "humanitarian trips" to take.

How can it be that he once said he wanted to save the marriage yet never stepped up to the plate to do these things to ensure our marital success?

Starf*sh
Thank for your reply. I am working on answers.
Also absorbing your information. will post back a little later.
Thank you again.

lkm3

I'm going to respond to you first because I think your situation is the most serious. How long has it been since d-day? Have you done a good Plan A? I'm asking these questions because I think if you have been in Plan A for a suitable amount of time....you may need to move to higher risk strategy....specifically Plan B in order to get the change necessary to begin recovery and stop being "dismissed" or "duped". You have gotten nothing so far....and this keeps your marriage at even greater risk than it would be in Plan B. So please talk to me....and if you need more help....feel free to email me at starfish4729@hotmail.com

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How can it be that he once said he wanted to save the marriage yet never stepped up to the plate to do these things to ensure our marital success? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because he didn't HAVE to....you took him back WITHOUT it....what if you wouldn't????

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Starfish, I need so much help!

D-day was one year ago Nov.1. I came here to MB pretty much right away and received alot of advice about plan a and b. I did a pretty decent plan A. He loved to tell me in the heat of his anger that I was never much of a woman, but during that plan A time he saw every bit of the woman I truly am! I tried very hard not to LB. I started working hard on myself and meeting his needs too. I don't have regrets there. (one thing I can be happy about)

I have started Plan B 2 times. 1st when we were seperated. I know I didn't do that one very well b/c I would eventually give in and talk to him or get angry. The 2nd plan B is in the present.

Now for me to get real honest here. And I'm sure in what I am going to say there will be many mistakes I've made along the way.

After I asked him to leave this time (September), I didn't write him another plan B letter. I just spoke him over the phone and told him that if things were going to work w/ us we needed to seperate. He would not write the n/c letter to the former sec. and he was hostile and verbally abusive toward me at an escalating pace. So I said that I thought it would be best that we seperate and continue counseling to help us get on the right track. I didn't want to write another letter b/c he told me that any letters I've written to him were ridiculous. So I just retreated quietly.

The n/c w/ him has been difficult at best b/c he is living on the same street as me and is in contact w/ the kids. I did a pretty good job of not talking to him, even the kids were to take a message for me so that I would not have to talk to him. I know my WH was frustrated that I wouldn't talk to him b/c he told his dad that I would never talk to him. Yet he never made an attempt to talk or to reconcile. Not one mention. The only thing he did say was that he was going to file for a D.

So ever since September up until the Thanksgiving holiday, I stayed pretty much dark. What has been so hard is that the only control he has left over me is financial and he knows it. He has played game after game w/ the finances. I don't have access to anything b/c I don't work and he keeps his $ in his business acct. or wherever. So w/ the kids to condider during the holidays, I've tried to communicate w/ him and keep our conversations on a polite level. I don't really have anyone to go between us to help communicate so when it comes to money or the kids, I have most recently started talking. Before then I had my Atty do the communicating for me.

But what's worse is that b/c he's on my street, I find myself looking out the window to see if he's home, and I get myself worked up if it's late and he's not there. I stopped looking at the one email acct that he hasn't changed the password b/c that also upsets me.

I feel really stupid that I am even thinking of him when he hasn't given me ONE indication that he cares. His behavior sexually has become extremely dangerous and that fact alone is not only killing me but I would have to be crazy to think that there is something left to salvage.

If he came home today and told me he wanted our family back together I don't know now if it could work. The hurt is so deep and it's not the forgiveness part I'm hurting so deeply about. If I knew he truly loved me, I know I can forgive him. I'm hurting more b/c he's so indifferent towards me. He can go out now and have sex w/ a complete stranger before giving his wife and family a serious thought or consideration.

And since there's been virtually nothing for me to work w/ here and hasn't been for over a year now, I don't know why I'm still here at MB. What's the point?

lkjm3,

Okay chere....now that I'm up to speed....let's talk. First of all...you're here because you aren't ready to give up....and there's no shame in that...it's very honorable in fact. And very hard in the face of such utter disrespect. Here's the thing....you are in a terrible situation to try and do a plan B. You live down the block, you have no mediator and with kids that's a killer because he's going to see them. So you really can't protect yourself. So what should you do? I'm going to check with cerri on this....since I mentor for her site....but I'm going to make a suggestion. It's too late to go back to doing a Plan A....and you can't do a Plan B because of the above problems....so what's left? Have you tried Michelle Weiner Davis's 180 list? That would allow you to stop avoiding him (as in a Plan A)....and also help you look more confident and less needy (as in a Plan B. It's not ideal but it may suit your needs better than what you're doing. Wanna look at the list chere?

Give me that list!

Maybe that'a why I have been struggling all along. No respect from WH,he's in my face practically all the time, and A and B haven't seemed to make much of a difference.

Ok, something else I didn't mention that has happened over last week.

I have realized that nothing really was working so I actually thought that if I could show him the tenderness in my heart and also forgiveness, maybe that would soften him. Last Monday he came over to give me some money after being very hostile over the phone w/ me. He appeared to have been crying or at the very least overwhelmed w/ frustration. I grabbed both of his hands and told him to come inside and sit down w/ me. He jerked back at first but I insisted. You have to know that he has not been in my house since September. He came up and seemed to be upset of the fact that the kids are unhappy w/ him. He felt that they hated him and he wanted the opportunity to make it up to them. I told him that the kids needed their daddy and he needed to spend more time w/ them. I also said that his behavior has become out of control and he needed to stop b/c everytime he doesn't come home the kids know b/c they ride past his home while playing and see that the front porch light has been on all night long. I told him that the bar scene and the women involved in whatever he's doing is a dangerous way to live. If he didn't catch AIDS or something else, the H of his OW would come after him. What's more is the children have lost respect for him.

He seemed to be listening and I wasn't condemning. I showed him a Bible verse that has helped me to get through this and said that he could claim this verse too. He cried on my shoulders and said he would work on his relationship w/ the kids.

He never said anything about us, nor did he say he was sorry. But I felt more like a parent to him and also like I was able to minister to him in some way.

Now as far as the rest of the week, he took the kids out a couple of times. That was good. But his pride is still guiding him. I knew that he only had a temporary moment of clarity, but I felt better being able to talk to him and not talk about us or try to fix us.

I was feeling a little bad about breaking a plan B situation w/ him but I think that it may have been ok. He still is falling back into his hurtful ways and still trying to play games w/ the money.

I did something else too. Over the weekend he asked me where I was on Friday when I went out (he had the kids overnight for the 1st time). I told him out w/ the girls. he asked where I got the money to go out. I told him that I didn't need any money b/c people wanted to buy me drinks. I told him that the person he said wasn't woman enough for him is woman enough for the very friends he hangs around w/. That they certainly thought I was plenty woman. When he asked how I knew these people were his friends, I said he knows I'm not stupid by now and they were asking me out. The beauty of my WH not introducing me to the friends in his secret 2nd life wouldn't know that I was his wife, but I know them! Then later on he came over and gave my brother a cigar but didn't have a light. So I took out the matches from the bar his friends hang out at and gave it to my WH to light their cigars!

I know I was bad to say that, but maybe he saw that the grass isn't greener and if he's not careful I may end up w/ one of his "buddies". (nothing happened by the way)

Some Plan B!!! *NOT* No wonder it's not working....sheesh. You will not know if Plan B could work....because what you're doing is nothing like a Plan B. Perhaps the opportunity for a real B will present itself....if it doesn't...here's the list:

Michelle Weiner Davis's 180 degree list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes her feelings stronger).
24. Be patient.
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than anywords you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

Well, I didn't do any of these stupid things until the past week. Thanks for the list. There are things I need to be working on for sure. In a lot of ways I've incorporated this list in my daily living.

But now that I'm overwhelmingly stressed out, I could see much of the progress I've made fall be the wayside. I could have started by NOT calling him this morning when I didn't have bread for the kid's lunches or $ for lunches. By the time I got upstairs to search for some singles, I was heading over to the coin jar that only has pennies, nickels and dimes at this point and I lost it. By calling him I know I sounded needy and desperate. I'm not depressed enough for meds (thank God), but things sure have gotten the best of me!

So what would your first course of action be if you were me and needed to recover your sanity?

Oh, and I do let him get to me with the things he says even when I know he's just blowing smoke!

Under the circumstances chere....I'd be going just as crazy. Preserving sanity? Hmmmmm well that's an entirely different question. To be honest, (you asked) if it were me....I'd be taking his sorry butt to court so I didn't have to raid penny jars while he was taking out these hussies. Do you have a legal separation and child support? spousal support? Oh, and I'd be out looking for a way to make money, or getting help from my family or church.

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

We are actually in the beginning stages of a divorce. Since he was spending our money wildly on anyone and anything he chose, I had to go that route to try to protect him from depleting the marital assets. So now I'm waiting for a hearing, which is scheduled in January. Until then I have to beg like a dog to get just normal bills and expenses covered.

My church family has offered to help in any way and if I need to use them I will.

In the mean time I get to watch my WH get dressed up to go out for an evening at the bars, and come back to try to play daddy when he's feeling a touch of remorse.

The waiting in all of this is getting to me b/c if we are over, and he has moved on to the new and exciting bachelor life then why can't we just settle this and move on our way!