I have been reading this entire site for the past 10 days. I have read a lot of information and know that I have only been able to get through these last 10 days because of what I have read on RBs. But I still have one question that doesn't ever seem to be directly discussed. Why does he keeps telling me he is in love with her? Could he really be in love with her?
So, here is a brief description of what has been going on... I have been marred for 9yrs, 9 months with no children. As far as I knew our life was completely happy and never thought H would or could do this to me. I love him so much! To say the least I have been completely blindsided by this. Dday was 1-1-2004, which H informed me that he was in love with another woman. (OW is married too, 7 or 8 years no children, H said OW marriage was happy too) H said he has never felt love like this for anyone his entire life. He continues to tell me he loves me but loves her so much more. The A started 5 months ago while H was on a business trip. The OW does work for the same company but they had never met until this trip and don't (or didn't) usually run into one another during the workday. He has not given me all the details of their A encounters but, I do know of only one other trip he took where they arranged for her to meet him for a couple days. Besides that, I have gone over the calendar countless times and cannot figure out when they could have had any overnighters or full days together. From what H told me they would meet or talk when they could. They would talk about their lives and have sex. How could they be so in love with one another? The day after dday, my H and I decided to go immediately to our Chaplin. The first thing that was advised was to end the A and have not contact. H agreed to do so. That same day he met with OW. He said he told her he needed time to work on his marriage and she said she had thought about doing the same thing. (or at least this is what he told me.) Thus, they agreed not to see each other. (FYI, the OS does know and called my husband to let him know that he knew and threaten him. Which afterwards my husband said, “It is Over”??? Meaning the A is over?? I am not sure or maybe it made H feel that it was.)

So it has been 9 days since they supposedly have had no contact. Since then we have had some great quality time together which he said he really enjoyed and have been back to the Chaplin for more counseling and in church both Sundays since dday. He continues to make plans with me for the future (next weekend we are going on a two day getaway). He continues to tell me he loves me and always will but still loves her and thinks of her all the time. I asked him if he found out that things were not working out to WO marriage would this be his open door and he answered yes. So how can he say that he is committed to “Trying to make this marriage work” (this is how he says it) when he is thinking about what could be with the OW.
Please if any one has some insight please let me know what it is. I am trying so hard to be strong and stay hopeful that I can rebuild our marriage. But, I am feeling like I am going to have a meltdown if I don’t get some answers or some kind or advice.

Thanks,
Meltingdown

He is in the fog and addicted to OW. Don't pay any attention to his profession of love for her. You can start in Plan A.

Be prepared for setbacks. My H got up in front of everyone at church and asked for prayers for our reconciliation. Two days later he spent New Year's Eve with OW!

Stick with MB program to prevent a meltdown. Things will get better and he will be back in love with only you.

He will continue to feel this way until withdrawal is over. At that point, reality will begin to intrude, but it can take a long time for a WS to come completely back to earth. If he has further contact with her, withdrawal will be stretched out, so NC is very important.

I disagree with Believer, Plan A is not appropriate for you. Plan A is for BS's whose spouse is continuing an affair. Yours is still foggy and withdrawing, but he is saying he wants to work on the marriage, and has cut off contact with her, so Plan A is out. Plan for recovery is in. To wit: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

John's reply is a masterpiece!

As for your H's statements...perfectly normal at this stage, even if soul crushing. You might want to tell him that you'd rather he not make any statements about his feelings for the XOW until it is to tell you that you are the only woman in his heart. (I also had to deal with this aspect and this is the path I took.)

You must remember...there is love and then there is LOVE! Everyone "loves" the feelings of falling in love, but what is happening is often not true love or lasting. It can't stand the test of time. It's more chemical and self serving then real true long lasting love. So while he may "love" this woman, he's only known her for a very few months and it's all been new and exciting and all about putting our best foot forward and hiding all our flaws. With the affair aspect, it's also about secrets and knowing something no one else does, and that in itself adds a layer of excitement. It's exciting to just began learning about someone and they you. Often in these short term affairs...that's all it really is...there is no true love or real commitment. Altho, the partners in the affair may think differently, usually after a period of separation and NC, they began to see the lies they have been telling themselves.

My H also had an affair with a co-worker, there were no overnights, no late nights...their affair was conducted solely during working hours. Which is often the case for these co-workers affairs.

May God grant you the strength, courage and the wisdom as you find your healing path.

Thanks to all of you that responded. It does make me feel somewhat better and gives me hope and strength to have your words of encouragement. I went to the bookstore this morning, neither of the two books widely suggested were in stock but are now on order.

Can any of you tell me how am suppose to tell if H is being honest about the NC. He said that she has not called or emailed and he has not attempted either. But, he keeps telling me how bad he wants to talk to her. We are planning a trip back home for two weeks. We were suppose to be flying out together on the same flight and day. He told me yesterday, that he would rather I fly in five days later. He said he needs time to think and figure something’s out in his head. He assures me that the OW is not coming along or meeting him. He promised to call me every night and as often as possible. How do I trust him and believe this to be true. Does he need time? I thought the best thing for us to do is be together as much as possible? Please help me deal with this.

Thank you
Meltingdown

John's reply is contradictory. He says don't apply Plan A, yet his boilerplate quote is chock full of it. John, what are you doing??

Melting - Read the "quote" portion of John's reply - especially everything about Plan A.

You described nothing to us in your original post about any ways in which you were not meeting your H's needs - according to your own introspection or according to him.

We need to hear both. We already know much of what he claims - it comes right from the WS script.

But what were you not doing? This doesn't mean you caused the affair - quite the contrary - he is 100% responsible for his decisions. BUT - you very likely played a role in creating the favorable environment for the affair to happen. Finding and fixing these attritributes and demonstrating that they are fixed is the essence of Plan A.

You CANNOT get into real recovery until you know what needs to be fixed - this you identify in Plan A. John is right that Plan A is primarily intended for BSs whose WS is in a continuing affair, but it is imperitive for any recovery. No Plan A, no real fixes. Period.

Yeah, John, what that all about?

I disagree with Believer, Plan A is not appropriate for you. Plan A is for BS's whose spouse is continuing an affair. Yours is still foggy and withdrawing, but he is saying he wants to work on the marriage, and has cut off contact with her, so Plan A is out.
And then you suggest he read all about Plan A.

If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor

Meltingdown, read the links below.

meltingdown - Read all of the information in links. Do not worry about what plan you should be in. If you read the material until it becomes a part of you, it will become clear what to do.

Then if you have questions come here and someone is always here to help you out. Hang in there and don't get discouraged.

Thank for you input and discussion between you all about, which plan I should be in and who is right or wrong. I think plan A is still a good plan for me right now since I am not completely convinced that the A is over. I now know that I have got to work on myself. I have to learn what I can do to fill his love bank back to full for me. That is why I have been reading everything I can on this site and have the books on order. I don’t think his love for me or his love bank is completely empty. So, I have a goal to make this marriage work. He told me last night that he does love me and things were not that bad and he could have gone on for the rest of his life just the way things were. I guess when he met this OW, he realized something was missing and she started filling his love bank.
My question of deepest concern now is: Can any of you tell me how am suppose to tell if H is being honest about the NC. He said that she has not called or emailed and he has not attempted either. But, he keeps telling me how bad he wants to talk to her. We are planning a trip back home for two weeks. We were suppose to be flying out together on the same flight and day. He told me yesterday, that he would rather I fly in five days later. He said he needs time to think and figure something’s out in his head. He assures me that the OW is not coming along or meeting him. He promised to call me every night and as often as possible. How do I trust him and believe this to be true. Does he need time? I thought the best thing for us to do is be together as much as possible? Please help me deal with this. I don’t want my questions of distrust to be a LB.

Help!
Meltingdown

Er...the link I quoted was meant to apply to many situations. It does not, however, say to read up on Plan A. It says "IF your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair..." do Plan A. I intentionally left it there, because I know that a WS's stated resolve to work on their marriages can be fleeting, so she might need to refer back to it in the future. I hope she has no need for those links.

You should not have to figure it out. He should be proving it to you, with complete accountability for his time and money, and you should have access to all his email and voicemail passwords, and to any financial accounts.

edited to add: If he is unwillinng to do this, there is a good possibility that the A is not over, and you DO need to read those Plan A links. Now, it is true that noone is excited about these steps at first, but if he doesn't come around pretty quick from reading SAA with you, then it is not unreasonable to assume the worst.

Besides that, to re-iterate: Plan A is a strategy to separate a WS from a lover. It is not a lifestyle choice. During Plan A you meet the WS's needs while expecting nothing in return. That is a recipe for frustratioin and resentment if it goes on very long, and will kill any love you have for him. That will not save your marriage. Plan A should only be done long enough to give the WS a taste of what can be, and to show that you can stop lovebusting, if that is an issue between you.

<small>[ January 12, 2004, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

meltingdown - Just keep reading here. When you get the basic concepts you will know what to do. It does not matter if you go with him right away or not. There is nothing you can do to keep him away from OW, so just try to relax and start working the program. We will help you through this. Actually your situation sounds quite hopeful to me.

Thanks Believer,

I had coffee with H this afternoon at his office, something that we haven’t done in a longtime. Of course, I did have to initiate the action. It was nice but, only lasted for 30 minutes. I guess I will have to take small miracles first. But, this evening he called to tell me that he had a meeting come up last minute and would call me afterwards saying it would only last until 6:00 at the latest. Well, I grew impatient and call his cell phone several times until I got him. When he answered he said he was in the car on the way home. Then he began to ramble about his meeting (in my mind I was thinking what is trying to cover up? A secret meeting between him and OW? ). I held back an never asked if he was with her. (don’t want to do a LB) How will I ever have the strength to keep this up? I prayer all day long for peace. Are you sure there is no way that I can tell if he is lying. I want to believe!

Meltingdown

This may sound harsh but if his first reaction to being discovered was that he was "in love" with the OW but still "loved" you, give me a break. He wants it both ways, you have no children with him, can make a clean break, move on. I have been married a long time, two grown children, recently discovered my wife has been unfaithful to me for at least half our marriage (with multiple OMs) and she does not know I know "yet". Hell of thing to find out when you are in your 50's and have been 100% faithful although that has not been easy in my profession. I have always avoided the temptation when it presented itself, damn thing this sense of honor and fidelity.
Sorry to tread on your post with my venting but after all these years my only hope is complete remorse and confession on her part when I confront her, absent that I will find a new life.

meltingdown - Lots of them do lie. But you can do nothing about that. Believe me. Just keep reading here and following program. It will help you save your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Then he began to ramble about his meeting (in my mind I was thinking what is trying to cover up? A secret meeting between him and OW? ). I held back an never asked if he was with her. (don’t want to do a LB) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MD - This opens up an interesting topic, and I am not sure I completely understand the answer, or could describe it if I did understand...but when has that ever stopped me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LB's are not just "things that make your spouse angry". A prime example of something that will probably make your spouse angry, but is not an LB, is exposing an ongoing affair to the OP's spouse. Most WS's will be angry at the BS in that situation, but that is not an LB, that is telling the truth. And, it is not beating someone with the truth, which IS an LB. LB's are: Demands, Disrespect, Angry Outbursts, Independent Behavior, Dishonesty and Annoying Habits.

Anyway, telling your H that you are worried about where he is. Asking your H if he was with the OW when he told you he was in a meeting IS an LB, because you are implicitly accusing him of being dishonest, which is a DJ. However, telling him that you get upset (scared, annoyed, frustrated, worried or whatever is true for you) when you can't reach him, and that your mind starts to race and you think he must be with the other woman, is NOT an LB. It is an accurate description of how his actions, past and present, affect you, and about how you are feeling - which he needs to know. He has destroyed your trust in him,a nd he needs to earn it back. Pretending your trust is still there will keep you stuck, and is actually an LB, because you are being dishonest with him!

Now here's where it gets tricky: Despite what I just said, it can be a delicate balance to be honest without being discouraging, given how hurt you are. It is not hard to be so negative that he will feel overwhelmed, thinking he can never undo all the damage he has done, so he will just give up and leave. Beyond that, Harley says you have to make your time together fun, and telling him about how much he has hurt you is not a fun experience for him. So, it helps to focus on the present when you tell him about things he does that hurt you in some way, and not drag in the things he has done in the past, that hurt you then. The baggage from the past is why you lack trust, but that is not really important, in the sense that if he deals with his current actions (being unreachable) that trigger that lack of trust (note the lack of trust is simply a current fact about how you feel - the reasons for it are irrelevant), then you are dealing with the past and present simultaneously, without actually bringing up the past.

I'm not sure that was clear. If anyone can explain this better, have at it...

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Hey There John,

I started a new topic (What is going on in his head?) on this same old subject but, I want to make sure I got your advice on this:

My H called me today very depressed and said we needed to talk. I met with him and we talked about what he is feeling. He is so confused right now. H said that since the NC from the OW of 10days now, it has only made him love and want her even more. He told me he loved me but was not “in love with me”, that he finally had met the women of his dreams and now really knew what it felt like to be in love. Boy, was all that the hardest thing I ever had to take. I sat there holding him with love and understanding. He feels like he is about to bust and needs to talk to someone. He said he was going to start looking for someone. He said he doesn’t want to hurt and even if we do try to make this work, he is afraid that he might hurt me again one day. Then in his next breath he would say how he is looking forward to our weekend getaway and can’t wait to move away from here.
Again I ask… What do you think is going on here…is he in withdrawal is this what I have to except from now on? How long will this continue like this before he is out the fog and can really start working on our marriage?

WAT: the OPH does know, I think he may have found out the same day I did. The OPH’s has already called my husband and threatened him. I have know idea what the OW and OH are doing if anything to fix their own mess.

He is following the WS standard playbook. This is so common that it is almost fore-ordained that he will feel that way and say those things. They almost all do. That is not information he will believe at this time, so don't try to educate him. This is discussed in SAA, so I am assuming you haven't read it yet. Harley also discusses it some in How Should Affairs End?, but he fails to use the phrases "Now I know what true love is" - "They are my soul mate" or something similar, but we see it here all the time. Soul mates are made, not found, and if he spent as much emotional energy and time on you as he did her, he would probably think you were his soul mate - and if he would let you meet his emotional needs the way she does.

So, yes he is in withdrawal, his feelings will pass if he COMPLETELY cuts off contact with her, and there is not much you can do except wait it out, and have as much fun together as possible, to keep his mind off her.

One more thing: as you sense, this is serious, and can hinder or derail your recovery. I just want to re-assure you that though it CAN derail a recovery, many, if not most, successful recoveries go through this stage.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

He is being very typical. Focus on you. Plan A. There will be setbacks for a while. Keep reading.

Just a note of encouragement...my husband also told me (and her) he was in love with OW. A month after no contact, he can't believe he said it at all because he never really felt it. He is even embarrassed about what she looks like now, but at that time he said she was beautiful. He came out of his fog quickly and withdrawal didn't take long at all. I am lucky for that and I hope you are too. He wants to work on your marriage. Let him be honest with you now without LBing. Eventually he will realize how silly it all sounds. Just hang in there. We are all here for you!