For months I ignored 90 percent of the posters on this and other forums who nicely tried to tell me that my wife was exhibiting all the traits of someone having, or about to have, an EA or PA. I chose to ignore these people, notwithstanding all the evidence that was mounting (no pun intended), because my wife wasn't the type to have an affair.

Today I found out at about 11:45 a.m. that my wife (now officially known as WS) had a house exchange last night with a female friend of hers who was conveniently at my home to look after my children after I dropped them home Sunday evening so that WS could romp in the sheets with someone else who is probably also betraying his spouse.

WS had let me know earlier this past weekend that she wanted Saturday (Valentine's Day) off (we both usually attend our kids' soccer games most of Saturday). I never said anything, but suspected that WS and OM (whoever he is) were going to have their first VD together (maybe they'll also catch VD, who knows...). Turns out I was right. My WS also told me to tell the kids that she would be home by the time they woke up in the morning. When my WS did not come home in the morning before kids left for school, my oldest son was a wreck. He was very hurt that he did not know where mom is and was nearly in tears when my sister spotted him at school and came to see what was wrong. WS only arrived home at about 5:00 p.m. today as I was on the phone with 7-year old daughter and checking on son. I said a quick good-bye to kids and hung up.

I found out earlier today. At 8:30 this morning, my sister went over to WS's female friend's house to pick up friend's daughter who sister usually takes to school Monday mornings. Lo and behold, my WS's vehicle was in her friend's driveway, parked conveniently beside another vehicle. My sister rang the chime-like doorbell and though she heard a banging noise from inside the house, nobody answered.

She went away to the school feeling very uneasy (sister and WS have been best friends for 14 years; now WS often ignores my sister), but put 2 and 2 together and decided to make a plan to call me and then to confront WS's female friend first and then my wife.

I am waiting for a phone call from sister, but feel so betrayed. Although my WS and I have had virtually no relationship for 16 months, I always thought that there was a chance she was not messing around with anyone and that she would eventually come around.

Part of me hates her and wants her dead. Part of me wants her to realize her mistake and come out of the fog. I don't know what to do. I guess Plan B is in order. I cannot call her, as I have absolutely no desire to communicate with her. I have made a date with another woman for tomorrow night, but made it clear to her I do not want a relationship, just someone to hang out with for a change. I have been spending most weeknights sitting at home reading and playing the stereo, and I am simply tired of the monotonony.

My WS just called (I have call display), but I did not take it. I can't stand her right now. I have worked so hard not to be angry, but it is all falling apart now.

Is there any point even doing Plan B when we are already separated and wife has no interest in working on the marriage?

BC

BC,

Part of me hates her and wants her dead. Part of me wants her to realize her mistake and come out of the fog. I don't know what to do. I guess Plan B is in order. I cannot call her, as I have absolutely no desire to communicate with her.

Yes, plan B may be in order.

I have made a date with another woman for tomorrow night, but made it clear to her I do not want a relationship, just someone to hang out with for a change.

This is not a good idea. You are incredibly vulnerable right now...and should not go out alone with any women right now. I know your angry, but it's not fair to anyone.

I have been spending most weeknights sitting at home reading and playing the stereo, and I am simply tired of the monotonony.

I understand that...but the hard truth is...that until you are divorced...you are still married...and dating while married is something you don't agree with do you?

Is there any point even doing Plan B when we are already separated and wife has no interest in working on the marriage?

Yes there is. It is the last step you need to take to make sure you have done everything possible before you move on with your life. Be a better person that she is right now.

I'm so sorry that suspicions turned out to be true. (((((((((((((SBNS))))))))))))))

Shaken,
I know exactly how you feel, I was in the same place.

Star*fish is right and she gave you good advise. Get out of the house, go to a hardware store, a bookstore, but stay away from another woman. That will only complicate matters.

Plan B sounds right for now.

Hang in!

Thanks both of you for your posts:

Other woman made it easy for me yesterday morning. She asked for a raincheck on our dinner plans and I took this as a definite sign that I should back off. I know I am vulnerable right now, so it is for the best.

My Plan B is a legal separation agreement. WS pushed one on me in November, but I never did anything about it. This one will be drafted by me and will be firm, but reasonable. I will have as little contact with WS as possible, though the children make it difficult (e.g. it is youngest daughter's birthday party this weekend).

I am still working on how and when I will confront, though wife suspects I know something.

Thanks.

Shaken

Shaken,

If you haven't confronted or exposed the affair...you have not yet done Plan A. And Plan a should be completed before going to B. There are several reasons why. The conflict that is injected into the affair through confrontation and exposure...can often shake things up enough to get the the WS to work on the marriage. You don't want to be in no contact when she is feeling guilty....the guilt and remorse are part of what will help you heal. You want to enter Plan B when she has the best impression of the marriage...not the worst. Delay that Plan B until after those steps please. If and when you feel you must move to Plan B...getting an intermediary to deal with visitation is how you handle the situation with the kids. A good Plan B....is pitch dark...no calls, emails, contact at all. Good Luck

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Star*fish:

I have had problems doing Plan A and Plan B, and here is why.

Although my wife was not embroiled in an affair for the initial 9 month period we were estranged in the same house, I decided to Plan A right then and there. I Plan A'd for 9 months because my wifr had already fallen out of love with me and was as good as gone emotionally. I continued on unabated until I did not have the emotional or mental strength to keep it up. In fact, I believe to this day that I did one of the best Plan A's one could do - even though it was not enough to help open my wife's heart.

I continued Plan A, but to a lesser extent, even after I moved out of the marital home.

The reason I have not gone to Plan B is because I have not exposed what I know - yet - and because I don't believe Plan B will work if Plan A never worked.

I believe my wife knows that something is up. She could not look my sister in the eye this morning when they ran into each other at the supermarket. I know my wife knows I know something, but I confess I am sort of enjoying letting her get torn up inside about it while she waits to see if I will broach the subject.

Anyway, to make a long story a bit shorter, I don't think I could possibly Plan A anymore. It is time to take the bull by the horns and take loving, but very firm action. I am resigned to the fact that this might serve to push wife away forever, but I can no longer accept the status quo (living in limbo), where I can't really move on with my life because I'm still legally married and emotionally attached to my spouse.

Today I finished drafting a firm separation agreement. I took lots of counsel and shared it with 2-3 people I respect. I don't know how my wife will react, but I know that I already feel vindicated in that I have regained some self-respect and am going to lovingly demand a respectful, fair settlement.

I will keep you posted.

MAP

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> Shaken,

If you haven't confronted or exposed the affair...you have not yet done Plan A. And Plan a should be completed before going to B. There are several reasons why. The conflict that is injected into the affair through confrontation and exposure...can often shake things up enough to get the the WS to work on the marriage. You don't want to be in no contact when she is feeling guilty....the guilt and remorse are part of what will help you heal. You want to enter Plan B when she has the best impression of the marriage...not the worst. Delay that Plan B until after those steps please. If and when you feel you must move to Plan B...getting an intermediary to deal with visitation is how you handle the situation with the kids. A good Plan B....is pitch dark...no calls, emails, contact at all. Good Luck </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Shaken -
The reason there is a Plan B, is because often Plan A does not end the A. Then it is time for Plan B, which many times DOES work.

Please stick with us and do this by the book. Then you will know that you have done everything possible to save your marriage.

And no relationships or "talking" with other women, except us of course. We have no motives other than saving your marriage.

Thanks. You're all great "friends". I want to soon be in a good enough emotional state where I can come onto this board with the motive of wanting to help others, rather than for myself. Soon!

I will start a firm Plan B once I get the nerve up to confront my wife with what I know. Sister's mother-in-law, who was at my wedding and is quite perturbed at the whole situation, even took pictures of wife's vehicle and OM's vehicle in wife's friend's driveway early Monday morning. I now have these pictures.

Question: how does one actually confront a wayward spouse? Please advise anyone. Remember, it is not as if I had a camera and tripod set up and have photos of the pair of them. I have evidence of contraceptive use. I have evidence that wife was at her friend's house overnight Sunday and that there was a strange car in the driveway with our car. I know that wife did not answer the door when the doorbell was rung. I know that both vehicles were there until 3:30 p.m. that afternoon. Help!!

Thanks all.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Shaken -
The reason there is a Plan B, is because often Plan A does not end the A. Then it is time for Plan B, which many times DOES work.

Please stick with us and do this by the book. Then you will know that you have done everything possible to save your marriage.

And no relationships or "talking" with other women, except us of course. We have no motives other than saving your marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hello everyone. Time for an update, for those of you who care to keep reading about my ballad (marriage aka malice in blunderland).

After confirming wife's indiscretions (at least in my mind) Monday, last week I spent more hours than I care to admit fashioning a legal separation agreement, which I presented to my wife this afternoon just before I left the family and retreated back to my place.

Wife had asked for such a thing back in November. But back then, and even as recently as late January, I simply was not in a good enough emotional state to deal with it. So I left it in her hands or, in other words, I waffled, vascilated, procrastinated, and capitulated, and was thus emasculated in my dealings with wife because she clearly had the upper hand. Remember, it is always the one who wants out who has the upper hand. I am not the type of person who wants anyone to have the upper hand, but if it has to be anybody may as well be me.

I have 4 children. The youngest and oldest are more like wife, in that they are not as vocal, do not often wear their hearts on their sleeves, and often keep their feelings to themselves, etc. However, it is usually the two middle ones (who are most like me - vocal, argumentative, highly energized) we have the problems with. Both wife and I know that once these two have been with the other parent and return "home", there will be hell to pay for a while. On Saturday, my younger son (child #2) was acting up while we were all in the car. I had to physically pull over and confront him about his attitude. After asking him what the problem was, he said he is acting up because he wants his mom and I to get back together. Wife has been very stubborn in her resolve to put the notion of reconciliation to rest with the kids. She repeatedly tells them that we are not getting back together. However, this is causing me no end to grief, as I have to deal with at least two of the kids on this matter on a weekly basis. It's beginning to annoy me because my wife's bad decisions should not be my burden, even though I know they are. On the way back to my place at the end of the day, older daughter (child #3) asked a question which brought tears to my eyes. She said, "daddy, why does life have to be so unfair?" (she is 7 years old). I asked her what she meant, and she said it is unfair that mommy and you aren't living in the same home...

Anyway, after taking the kids swimming Saturday night, we returned back to go to my youngest daughter's 6th birthday party. I was on pins and needles, because I knew that at the end of the day, wife would be returning to her home with a sealed manila envelope (the one containing the separation agreement).

At the party (we had a skating party; there were about 15 kids, and the usual assortment of moms and dads). I was the perfect gentleman. Remember, my wife has made alot of new friends since I moved out in July (most of these are my youngest daughter's classmates moms), and are basically all unknown to me. My wife feels safe around these women because she has got to know them on her own and they are not my friends (guess it makes her feel safer this way - understandable).

I made a point to walk up to each and every one of them and introduce myself as Mark, Rachel's father. I was positive, I was humorous, I was fun-loving, I was helpful, and I made sure I was looking good. The party was good - notwithstanding the tension. Even my wife's house-swapping friend (see first part of this thread for context) was vocally engaged with me for quite a bit of the afternoon. My sister (who was also there because my niece was invited to her cousin's party) has been very good to try to keep her nose out of my situation and has taken my advice not to speak to my wife about things. However, my sister did earlier (Monday) speak to my wife's friend (the one who was talking to me all afternoon). I know my wife's friend must have told my wife what she knows because wife could hardly look either of us in the eye today.

Anyway, at the end of the party I ran into a couple who wife and I used to know very well who, ironically, were married in the same church we were married in, and one week before us. We had not seen them in years, but it was quite sad because they do not know what has been going on in our lives and assumed that we are still together because we were together as a family at the skating rink.

After putting the kids weekend clothes in the family van at the end of the party, I handed my wife the manila envelope and calmly said to her "I've got something for you that you should read and that we need to discuss shortly". I left it at that. Next steps now belong to my wife. I have no idea what her reaction to the separation agreement will be. I mean she has wanted it, but I drafted it on my terms. It is very strong language (but written fairly and with quite a bit of legalese), but it just might wake her up. Even if it does not, I drove home feeling a sense of vindication. Knowing that I have taken a stand and I have drawn a line in the sand so to speak. I don't know when I will hear from wife about this, but I will definitely get back to this board as soon as I have something to report.

No contact/Plan B letter is being formulated in my mind right now. Sad but necessary.

Have a great evening everyone.

Hopefully she will sign it, but don't count on it.

Wow, I'm just getting caught up on your story. Sounds like you have been living in this heck for quite a while...

It seems now would be a logical time for you to write her a very loving, and very warm Plan B letter (to go along with the separation agreement).

I would set up a go-between, sounds like you have some very supportive people around you that would help. And I wouldn't keep family or friends from talking with her, that is the consequences of her actions...they can LB. She may lose them as friends, but she may have lost them already...

And the kids, you can let them know you love their mom very much and you are doing what you can, and you hope the family gets back together again too.

She called last night. She thanked me "for the package". She said "there will be lots of changes". No surprise. I mean if I were her I would not sign the document I prepared.

I have recounted the story in the Plan A Plan B forum, but I confronted WS about contraceptives and such last night. I LB'd all over the place. I said she is blind and deceived. I said she would have had more honour if she had been up front with me from the beginning telling me she wanted to have an affair. She confessed to the contraceptives only after I confirmed my evidence, then she said that she is on them only to be ready for when she starts a relationship - which she wants to do.

I said she should be ashamed of herself and, before hanging up, said "I hope you are practicing safe sex for the sake of our children". I really LB's big time. Confess I do feel a bit exonerated, though.

Sad, sad, sad. The worst part by far is that she feels absolutely no remorse, no sorrow, no warmth in her heart for me. She is so deceived and I am so sad for us.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Hopefully she will sign it, but don't count on it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi Stillheremakingit:

I am not sure I have enough love left for her to write her a loving Plan B letter. To be honest, I am not sure it would work anyway, as she has not let me meet ANY of her emotional needs for 17 months and will not miss me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks for your comments and for caring.

Shaken
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> Wow, I'm just getting caught up on your story. Sounds like you have been living in this heck for quite a while...

It seems now would be a logical time for you to write her a very loving, and very warm Plan B letter (to go along with the separation agreement).

I would set up a go-between, sounds like you have some very supportive people around you that would help. And I wouldn't keep family or friends from talking with her, that is the consequences of her actions...they can LB. She may lose them as friends, but she may have lost them already...

And the kids, you can let them know you love their mom very much and you are doing what you can, and you hope the family gets back together again too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Shaken,

While I don't want to give you false hope...at the same time...please remember that none of us can predict the future. I have been mentoring a couple for 18 months. During that time....he has been living with the OW. Legalities have begun many times. Things have fallen apart regularly. but.....the husband is returning home this week. I will keep you my prayers...along with your family.

shaken -

Plan B is for you, not for your wife. Please try do have strength to write Plan B letter. You will be surprised how much it will help you.

I have been in Plan B with a few slips since September. It has been a lifesaver for me. I got a good perspective on my marriage. I am now stronger than ever.

The beauty of Plan B is that you will get your life back. You will no longer be on the rollercoaster.

Star*Fish:

Please check out Just Found Out - Little Hope Left so you can see how this A is unfolding. I would like your thoughts. Thanks.

Midwest

Dear Star*fish, Believer and whoever else cares to respond:

I am feeling that there is only one reason to implement Plan B: It is for me. It can't be for any other reason because the facts as I know them are as follows:

- WS is completely out of love with me. I have not heard ILY in about 4 years, and I know wife has not loved me for about 2 years

- WS admits, quite proudly in fact, that she is now on birth control. She is either already in the midst of a sexual relationship with someone else or is about to embark on one.

- WS has no desire, nor interest, to work on the marriage or even to consider reconciliation. She has made this clear many times

- WS has already moved on with her life. I am now officially in her past, even though we are still married.

- WS has simply not allowed me to meet any of her ENs for 17 months now. The only needs she wants me to meet relate to my involvement with our 4 children, and financial needs that she has.

- WS leads a secretive life. She has abandoned all but one of her established friends, and no longer has much of anything to do with her older set of friends.

- WS has no contact with my family, except my sister, who she sometimes runs into because they live somewhat near each other, our sons are on the same soccer team, they run into each other at kids' school functions or grocery store, etc.

- WS has given up attending church

- WS has no remorse or regret that she has given up on the marriage

- WS is a good dancer and goes to nightclubs on a weekly basis.

As far as I am concerned, there is only one positive thing in our relationship. That is, WS wants and desires me to have as much of a relationship with our children as is possible under the circunstances.

So, having said all this, is there even the remotest possibility that Plan B will even work?

I seriously doubt it.

sadly,

Shaken

Well, no contact with wife since the blowup Monday night. Of course, I don't expect her to call me. I mean I told her I don't want to talk to her anymore.

My youngest daughter just turned 6 (it was after her skating party that I gave WS separation agreement). She has been my lifeline because she is at the stage where she just loves the telephone. Whenever she is at my place, the phone will not ring more than once before she answers it.

Daughter called me today at work. Obviously, WS encouraged her to call because WS needed some information from me about weekend plans and such. Daughter asked me if I was going to take her and her 3 siblings out for dinner tomorrow night. Then she asked what time. Obviously, WS was coaching her in the background so WS would not have to ask me directly.

I hate using the children as intermediaries. It is not right, but I feel I have no choice right now. I am right PO'd at my wife for her infidelity and she is probably angry at me for losing it Monday night.

Any suggestions? I have not yet started Plan B letter. I have been so busy and distracted at work...

Thanks.

Shaken

Hi Shaken,

I'm going to be as honest as I can....for what ever reason, it is much harder to get women home than men. Women take a long time to leave...but when they do...they appear to be more set on staying away. However, I have seen many men here do a successful Plan B. I want you do something that will benefit you greatly. Because you are close to Plan B, a better board for you would be GQII. There is a poster there...Mortarman....post directly to him and go back and read his old posts. He is the best poster around for answering questions about Plan B....and did a very successful and one himself. It will give you the strength and hope to make this decision right now. I will check on you over there okay?

Hi Shaken

I just want to say my heart goes out to you and to encourage you to stay strong and dont lose hope. I think you are correct in going to plan B at this time as your wife shows no remorse, the affair is ongoing after discovery, and you are at the end of your rope it seems as far as holding out any hope of things changing if you were to keep things status quo..

I am the WS.. I say that not proudly but so I can give you my perspective on what might be going on with your wife.. After the affair is discovered life will change for your wife. She will begin to feel the shame of what she has been doing in realizing others know, she will begin to realize she didnt get away with it, the secret is out, the forbidden love isnt quite as wonderful when shame enters in. Slowly the fantasyland love begins to crack and crumble as reality begins to creep in. Thats what happened to me.

In my case, I never stopped loving my husband even during the affair but I felt I needed the OM.. I was addicted to the feelings and the excitement..the passion..I thought I loved this man but once my husband found out I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt what an incredibly horrible mistake it all was, and I was as devastated as my husband was. Even so, I was suffering withdrawals, it was very difficult to let go of the addiction to my OM..and it took me awhile and my husband was hurt again and again. Finally I ended the affair and thankfully my husband was still there..loving me and wanting to make our marriage work..I am the luckiest woman alive to have this man in my life and I know it and thank God also for an end to the internet addiction that started me down this very painful road. I love my husband dearly and our marriage is back on track.. I am so fortunate and I know it.. I am truly happy and at peace today, and so is he.

May you find an answer in letting go and gving her enough rope to hang herself (figuratively of course)....Let her go and let her find out what life is like without any contact with you..without your love.. If she still is blinded in the fog.. stay the course and move on..but dont be surprised.. She just may show up on your doorstep one day.. ready to try again.. Your decdision then will be do you really need this or were you better off alone.. She will know right now that is possible..she may lose you for good..I have a feeling things are going to change since you have gone to Plan B.. I wish you luck regardless of what happens from this day. Take care of yourself in the meantime.

Thinking of you,
Lori