Lora, it's not easy. My situation was never like yours in that my H never said he was in love with Dragon Lady. I just knew there was something that shouldn't be.<P>By the time I really started freaking out, he was no longer working with her. But then he got let go again and she got him his current job (at one of her company's clients). That's when I freaked out again and went into therapy.<P>But by the time I realized there was a problem, he had already been fired and the 4 nights a week going out had stopped.<P>But what choice did I have? Either separate because he wouldn't play by my rules, or use the leverage I had. Confronting him accomplished nothing. It was always, "You don't trust me," "You think I'm f*cking her," or one of the other stock lines. Stalemate.<P>So I learned to keep my mouth shut and work on being nice to me -- and to him.<P>Ultimately I have him a two page letter explaining WHY it bothered me and WHY this friendship was different. I don't think he "got it" even then, but he has been at least a little more sensitive to me since then. Yet I know that if we have another barbecue next summer, he'll want her to be there, and I'll have to tell him I don't want her taking her up to our bedroom to see our cats because it's not appropriate....

pre-disclosure plan A,<P>Is when you decide (prior to disclosure) that you are dealing with the results of infidelity in the marriage - whether or not it is still continuing. <P>It is a Plan A, without disclosure.<P>I graduated to disclosure in December. I had put my pre-disclosure plan A on hold, and decided that I was going to lovebust to death. (dumb, not recommended!!!)... Anyhyow, he finally told me. He didn't tell me everything, and I haven't asked.<P>Disclosure didn't change anything for me, except that I know now that I am NOT crazy, and that I can trust my instincts from now on. It was very painful.<P>Lora, I think you need to decide that your husband did cheat or is cheating, and go on from there. You are not crazy either.<P>TNT

This pretty much sums up why me and my ex-H's recovery did not succeed:<P>Consider an argument with a loved one. An angry person is likely to blame, contradict, or ridicule their<BR> partner or loved one, insisting their point of view is the "right" one. You'd rather be right and "win" the<BR> argument than help to create your own happiness! <P> What's the advantage of winning? Well, for one, winning offers a short-lived ego boost. Unless you are in<BR> strong denial, you will realize that the cheap booby prize is attached to a price: the bitter resentment and<BR> anger of the individual you just beat down. What did you expect? "By gosh, you're right! Thanks for<BR> spending the last 30 minutes knocking me down - now I see the light!" <P> Feeling strong and powerful? How strong and powerful are you when your loved ones walk on eggshells<BR> around you, careful of what they say? You've just managed to lock yourself out of the information loop.<BR> Your husband or wife will talk to his or her mother or buddy or neighbor (or affair partner, addition is mine) instead of you. Your kid will shut<BR> down or act out, or do both. Also, don't count on your power lasting. Children grow up to have the last<BR> laugh; partners eventually get fed up and get out. <P> So, once you think about the consequences, why continue to do this "no-win win" over and over and over?<BR> Sometimes you do it just because you are plain ol' angry and don't know how to stop yourself. Sometimes<BR> you do it to show them who is boss, especially if you're secretly feeling insecure and angry. But most of<BR> the time, especially when you don't feel angry, you are probably engaging in this stuff because you<BR> assume that somehow it is your responsibility to protect and care for those you love. You may even end up<BR> feeling frustrated that they "won't listen," - especially since (you think) you know how to care for them<BR> best! <P> Well, guess what? You don't know how to care for them best. It is not your responsibility to care for them<BR> at this level. When you make it your responsibility, you have exceeded your boundaries and have become<BR> controlling. In the process, by focusing on them, you've also managed to stop taking care of yourself - the<BR> only one you really have any control over!<P> Most arguments are pointless, meaningless, and conducted over small matters which have little or no real<BR> meaning in life. By choosing to argue and control, you are creating your own unhappiness. <P> The next time you're considering whether to nit-pick, or to correct someone's misstatement or fact which<BR> may be slightly out of place, or correct someone's opinion or plan of action, reconsider what you have to<BR> gain and lose. You may offer your opinion, once, twice. Then drop it. You will be happier if you choose not<BR> to engage in that argument. It is a choice, and you have the power to make it. <P> Start today... Choose happiness, for a change.

I agree wholeheartedly that WE CREATE our unhappiness. As a matter of fact we create our lives by the choices that we make. We say that others don't listen when in reality it is us who is not listening and accusing the other of not doing it.<P>If we tell ourselves that we are miserable then we will be miserable because we are indenial of the fact that we don't know the answer and want to blame someone else for the unhappiness that we created by our actions. Others merely react to the things that we do. They don't want to control us because they don't really know either which explains their intense pain as well.<P>I know that I have been the source of some of my W's pain because I did not react in the way in which she expected which caused her anger and all the other associated emotions that triggered from the anger. I can only be there as best I can from what I have gathered from watching and listening. Only she can change her thought patterns to see things the way they really are. <P>I don't blame her for her reactions to my actions.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

I have a real problem with this whole thread.<BR>I am the betrayed!!! I will not take any responsibility WHATSOEVER for what my husband did! This is about his character flaw NOT me and how I could have been a better wife!! I had NO CLUE that my great husband and great father was having an affair for 2 years out of our 5 year marriage! We were not fighting un-usually we have a 3 year old daughter (was 1 when affair started) that I was TAKING CARE OF while he was cheating with OW who is 12 years younger that still lives with her parents! I am hurting so badly with all of this deceit! I am a good looking woman that could have cheated many times over but never ever considered it not for a second.....would have never jeopardized my family.......SO PLEASE!!!!!! Being a good person making good character choices MEANS A HE!L of a lot to me!!! I REFUSE TO TAKE responsibility for my H very poor choices. I am barely hanging on as it is feeling like I am betraying myself for trying to forgive my husband and make my family work. After discovery my H begged me to forgive him and work it out I agreed and we went to therapy that was Aug....I found out in Oct that he had been seeing her off and on (during therapy and during his begging and pleading for me to believe in him again)since Sept. He chilled for 1 month then went back to lies....begging and pleading again to not leave him and to believe him that he will never do anything again to mess us up says he (can't function without me).....and on and on....It's bad enough that I am completely choking on this hurt, that I have to get on this support system and read that I am in some way to take some of the blame to what has happen in this relationship---in my case that is BS...We were living a good life before he indulged his self with this very selfish acts. <BR>God please help this hurt subside!

KWAS,<BR>I don't think anyone here is telling you your H's affair is your fault. In my post, the point I was trying to make was that, now that the facts are known, you have a choice to forgive him and do your part in saving the marriage, or hang it over his head so that you can feel justified,superior for your better judgement in choosing not to have an affair, or you can leave him. None of your choices are guaranteed to produce a single thing in him. If you want to save your marriage, being "right" or more "moral", whatever, will get you nowhere. If you don't want to save your marriage and you just want to be "right" and show that low-down-no-good-cheater that he can't get away with this, then go ahead and get a divorce. Or you can do what my H did, keep my around for a year or so, get all his anger and punishment out of his system, then divorce me. Whatever you can live with.

KWAS, I think you're missing my point, and some of the others.<P>No one is saying that the betrayed carries any of the BLAME. But my question is this: How do you want the contrition to manifest? Groveling? Self-flagellation? Prostration at your feet? And for how long? Will any of that make the hurt go away? Will any of that make it not happen?<P>In an ideal world, betrayers know they were wrong and they bend over backwards to "atone." We don't live in an ideal world. Some do this, some don't. Those betrayeds who want the marriage and whose spouses aren't behaving according to plan have two choices: spend the rest of our lives angry, or CHOOSE to start fresh -- to tear those pages out and start again.