I see the OM had called out house on 10/19 while I was at work. He has called the house at least 3 times with 10/19 being the most recent. I thought she was not going to have contact with him. I thought she would tell me if she did. She told me several weeks ago that she was tired of all the sneaking around we were doing (I checking up on her and her contacting him, after I caught them emailing back and forth all night long while I was at work). She said that we would be honest, well I guess she isn't. She keeps wondering if I will ever trust her again, but it's exactly this $hit that makes it impossible for me to trust her.

I asked two things from her:
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No contact with OM</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If there is contact, tell me/show me (ie let me read the emails)</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Do I say something to her or just let it go? Right now I am extremely pi$$ed off and have half a mind to tell her to pack her $hit and get out if she can't respect my feelings in this whole matter. It's a good thing she is at the Dr. or I might have seriously LB'ed. Maybe I will calm down a bit by the time she gets home.

Here I am, right back at square one...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
MIF?

I have experienced the same thing and to be honest I have no idea how to stop it. If they want CONTACT there is nothing you can do. They may use public phones or post to each other from Cyber Cafés or public libraries. There is not a whole lot you can do and at some point you simply have to give up trying to spy on her. If she can only maintain NC under the threat of surveillance then------- it is not worth it. This is a very difficult scenario and I don’t really have the answers. In a sense you will have to try and trust------ that is what I am doing and it seems to work about 50% of the time. There is really no effective way to corroborate NC.

Good Luck!

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Is this the kind of situation that Plan B is supposed to address? It seems to me that you need to raise the stakes - she needs to be shocked into understnading that you are serious about NC.

MIF?,
I did not read your story, but I can tell you that if you want to save your M, it is entirley up to you. Your dday is very recent and most affairs die hard, but then again most affairs evetually die. Have you read the Harley book, SAA? If not, go get it now. Your W will continue to lie and contact as long as she wants too. She may even discontinue contact for a month or longer, and restart somewhere down the road. You need to think in terms of months and years. It will take 6 months to a year for all contact to end, depending on the length of the A. You must decide to hang in there at least that long.

Plan B is a very drastic step and is used as a last resort. Plan B involves separation from your spouse. A rule of thumb is to do a good plan A before you even consider plan B. How can you do plan A if you are separated. I'll bet if you pushed her out now, she would go. How well have you handled plan A? Have you done the things that are laid out on this site? Trust me you will have plenty of ups and downs. The turmoil is horrendous. But your feelings will betray you. You will want revenge and justice, but get neither.

I can encourage you b/c I lived it. By the grace of God I hung in there long enough for the fog to lift. I hung in there long enough to see my wife's love for me return. Its not easy. It takes resolve and courage. It takes love and sacrifice. Most of all it takes time and patience. I can tell you the pain is worth the reward. Many times I wanted to quit, but I did not quit. Take it a day at a time. You need to focus on your shortcomings and contribution to the atmosphere that lead to this affair.

You cannot change her, but you can influence her. She must see change in you and the positives that you bring to the M. You have history and children with her. Those are powerful things. She needs your unconditional love. You need to keep reaching out to her even when she rejects you. Its really up to you. I won't sugar coat this, but it takes determination to get through it. It will be the hardest thing you have ever done in your life. If you're up to it, you need to commit to the long term. Right now you are stuck with only one choice and that is to do whatever it takes to save your M.

Christ's Love
Roman121

Andrew, I have followed your story as we have nearly the same DDay. It seems your W has given up the OM and committed herself to saving your marriage and I am happy for you.

Roman,
Thanks for your reply. I guess my question was do I set a time frame for this or will I know when I will be fed up with it? According to you I think I need to wait and let things happen. I will know when I have had enough.

I do feel a little better after sitting on this all day. Not so angry, I didn't say anything to her, because I guess you are right. I can't stop her from contacting him if she really wants to. I can only hope se comes to realize how much she is hurting me in the process and decided that she no longer wants to do that. Right now, I think that if she had to choose between our marriage and their "friendship" that she would go with their "friendship". It's just hurtful and disappointing to know she would choose him over me. Maybe soon enough the tide will turn and she will decide that I'm the one she wants.


MIF?

How are you doing on the four parts of Plan A - Eliminate LB's, meet needs, exposure, respectfully telling her how this makes you feel?

I don't know about the rest, but from your post, it seems to me you need to work on #4.

Plan A is only effective if you follow it.

That's just it. I have told her how this makes me feel several time already but she obviously doesn't care about my feelings. How many times do I have to tell her?

MIF, I understand totally how you feel. It must be driving you nuts.

My H promised not to contact the OW but, I found out that they send email and SMS to each other everyday. When I bring it up to him, he said they are just friends and friends care for each other.

He expects me to accept this unchangable fact and continue to mend the M. My H has no regards for my feelings and do not respect me at all.

Next week, its our first visit to the MC. I am waiting patiently for the day to come. I want to tell the MC that I cannot continue with this M anymore due to his disrespect for me.

After I end the M, I'll post their horny love emails and nake pics to the OW family and employers.

I can't take it anymore. Its driving me nuts.

MIF?
Right now she does not appear to care about your feelings. The pull of the affair is very strong right now, but deep down under all her confusion, she does care about you. If not, she would not have agreed to stay married to you. She is in a very unstable frame of mind and is wildly unpredictable. You must think in terms of months and years while taking this thing one day at a time. I always beleived that my W still loved me and there were glimpses. She failed on NC 10 months after dday in a major way. There were other failures, but I kept trying to reach that one year mark. Setting those goals helped get me through the pain and rejection.

I would always be as positive as possible and tell her I was not giving up. Even when I was fiercly rejected, I did not withdraw, but I would reach out. Just try not to beg or grovel, it gets you nowhere. You need to apply a consistant love that will influence her. It will work, but only if you don't give up. Stop thinking about defeat. Stop the negative thinking. I am sure there are some positives. Don't be too hard on yourself when you blow it, but learn from it. This is all new stuff and it really comes down to your mindset, not hers.

Time and patience is the key.
Christ's Love,
Roman121

First, AVOID LB at ALL costs and second is to calmly, quietly and respectfully inform her that you are NOT her keeper and that you CANNOT and WILL NOT force her to end contact with the OM BUT that if it is still going on then your love for her will begin to die and if contact with the OM continues unabated, one day your love for her will finally come to an end and that you will no longer will want to be married to her even if by that time contact with the OM finally comes to an end. Let her know that the decision is hers and so are the consequences. This is not a threat or an ultimatum but a simple statement of fact.

Oops, well, in my anger yesterday I went into her yahoo mail account and put in an email of mine to have all replied mail forwarded to. That way, if she contacted him and he replied it would go to me instead and I could see what they were talking about. I got to thinking last night at work that wasn't such a good idea and planned on changing it back. Well, she obviously emailed him and he went to reply and saw the different address. He called the house 4 times last night while I was working. She in turn changed her password, changed passwords on my email too. I got home this morning and she didn't say a word to me. She acted like nothing had happend. Why wouldn't she say anything? I am guessing by admitting that she knew what I did she would be admitting that she contacted him again and therefor she didn't want to do that.

As a result of her playing these games, I have began to play them again as well. This is going downhill fast. She is not home right now, but when she gets here we will have to have another talk.

hurt_Aggie,
I'm sorry to hear you are going through the same thing. You at least seem to know what you want to do about this, by filing for D. I don't want that but I do want her to stop playing these games.

Roman,
You are right, she does not care about my feelings. I don't think I can think of months/years. I was kind of telling myself to at least give it till 1-22-05. That would be 4 months out from DDay. With the recent events I don't even know if I can make it that far.

T00MuchCoffeeMan,
Thankyou, that is good advice. That is exactly how I feel right now and due to her continued contact with him that time when my love dies for her is coming sooner than later. Ya know, I posted over the weekend that I loved my wife and how I felt that with this whole situation I felt I loved her every bit as much as the day we married. I am wondering now if that was just some euphoric false feeling because I *thought* she had dedicated herself to working on our marriage and things seemed to be going quite well at that time. Here we are just 5 days later and all hell is breaking loose. I gotta be honest, it's really hard not to LB, when you are so pi$$ed off. I guess it's a good thing she is not here and I can cool off a little so that maybe we can talk ratioinally about this.

MIF?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

MIF?,
You don't seem to get it. Tell me to buzz off if you want, but if you won't at least consider the long term, your M is doomed. You can play games and the blame game and all that, but in the end your children and you yourself will suffer from a divorce. There is no magic formula for this stuff. It takes hard work and guts to try to save a M after an A. It is very trumatic, but you can do it. Alot of people here do it and have far worse circumstances than yours. It is extremely important that you try to read the Harley resources and the experiences of others here. There are alot of success stories, but most of them have required months and years to heal and repair the damage.

It really comes down to losing your pride and the negative attitude. Right now you can't win with the OM. You want to know somthing, I stuck in there and the OM gave up. He finally told my W that I won. Do you hear that, he gave up! I can say that you are the better choice for your W and her children. You are better than him and she probably knows it. The addiction of the A is overwhelming right now. Get some victories under your belt and continue to move on. I used to say to myself that every day my W and I stay together is a day closer to our recovery. That's the kind of mind set you need. No ultimatums and not time lines, just do it.

Hang in there a day at a time,
Christ's Love,
Roman121

Roman,

I get it, it's just the constant disappointment wears on ya after a while. I know I am not the first or only one to experience this, and that my situation is not worse than everyone elses. I will plan on speaking with the W about all this recent mess tonight and hopefully we can get somewhere with it. I will not tell you to buzz off, I appreciate the honest response.

MIF?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How many times do I have to tell her? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Every time she hurts you, and every time she does something that makes you feel good, until you go to Plan B.

It looks like I may be in Plan B sooner than I had hoped (I had hoped it wouldn't come to that at all but...)

W is requesting a number to an attorney from her aunt.

MIF?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Mif,

Do you have twins?

Yes.

Me too. Twin girls.

Yep, twin girls (almost 9 yrs old) and a 2 1/2 yr old girl. Little darlings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello MIF
MIF that was my thought also.I'm so sorry your having to go through the torment your going through.Been there still doing that.I've lived with it for 3+years now.It's a real difficult situation when e-mails and chat are involved.They can be and say whatever they want to each other not to say what it does emotionally.My friend what you truely need to do for yourself right now is remember who you are.This kind of situation will drive you crazy,it will effect your work your health and every aspect of your life if you let it.Try not to loose yourself in all the insanity.This situation is not a game so don't make it into one and don't stoop so low that you forget your own morals.This is the hardest thing to do because you want them to realize what they are doing and you want them to feel the hurt like you do.I didn't know that my H was having a internet A,he hosts a chat room so he meets all kinds then I started noticing he was chatting (PM)with the same person all the time.So while I would go to work he would sit and chat with her all day and while I was cleaning house and cooking his dinner and doing his laundry he was having an affair.They would exchange pictures and he couldn't wait to meet her.Then he started calling her and leaving the house until am hours then crawl into bed with me and say I love you.He would sit at his computer and chat with her and play his love songs to her like I didn't exsist.We're still together but as you can see I can so relate to your pain.My H would also talk to her while I was at work.I don't understand it,I truely don't.If I was a bad person or wife or lover, maybe I could justify this happening but I can't.The internet has become an addiction for my H, his chat room mainly.He's made alot of friends there and some he's tried to get to know more than friends.I don't know how to stop it.I do know that my H can be whoever he says he is and be whatever he says he is.The people in his chat room think he's god.It's amazing what they don't know about him.Do you know what I mean?It's like they live in a fantasy while the real world goes by.In your situation be careful not to push your W away by arguing with her all the time,it'll just push her towards OM.Watch her behavior.Learn to see the signs.How long has this been going on?Where does OM live?I'm so sorry for your pain and I don't mean to sould so brupt with you I'm just going off of what I know.When your W and OM talk I'm sure they are not talking about the bills or stuff like that (reality).What does your W need right now?She needs you to be there and listen to her.Don't try to "get even".You need to be the better person here.Your the stronger of the two of you in your marriage for your marriage.You need to show her that and not give in to her games.It's unfortunate that she has to be that way.It's sad that she has to involve an inocent M in your marriage.You don't know what shes told him.My H wouldn't tell these OW that he was married,he would refer to me as his roommate or mother.Eventhough its hard to do please be patient.Please forgive me for being so harsh.I just don't want you to go through what I have the past three years....take care