Written by Baba2

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most women do not cross personal boundaries. Nor do they have affairs. The women who do open up to other men and have affairs while married are weak, unloving, stupid, and of bad character.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry to hear you talk with such hate in your tone, but until you have been a woman that has crossed that line, please do not pretend to know all. What makes a woman who crossed that line so much weaker, unliving, stupid and of bad character then the man who crosses that line? As for those who do and their potential to move forward as a better person and never do that again, your perspective really has very little ground to stand on.

Radio, you are hurting a lot, and you have gotten a lot of great advice here. Yes, you want to run, and yes maybe you can find something better out there, but, as others have mentioned, what happens when that becomes comfortable? If you and your wife work at rebuilding, and if the two of you take the time to explore and learn what happened to open the door to her A, then there is a very great chance things will move forward wonderfully with never looking back.


TMCM - you said it well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">having been sexually involved with other men prior to their marriage is seldom viewed as a badge of honor, and chances are good that for your W her sexual involvement with the OM is probably viewed by her as a purple cross of shame she's going to live with for the rest of her life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, if a WW really does take the time to see the damage and pain she has done, YES she does live with a cross of shame, even longer then her BH holds the pain dear.

So, as you can now see, I WAS the WW, quite some time ago. I am also one of the wonderful success stories. There is so much that I learned here, and so much I worked at to rebuild my marriage. It can be done, whether the WS is the W or the H. It can be done, and it can be wonderful, but you have to take the time to see if it can. There is so much involved in the healing all around. Much of her pain comes from the pain she caused you. Do you think it is easy to know that you have made some horrible decisions that hurt the ONE person you were to always protect and stand by and now the future with that person is no longer in your hands at all. You have given up that right and you have to accept that and see the depth of what now lies on his shoulders to decide.

Yes, she is the perfect wife right now, and all you can think is it is a smoke screan and it will end. However, that is not necessarily true.

Please, take some more time to work with her. Like someone else has mentioned, it has only been a short while. They say that the healing process takes at least 2xs as long as the A lasted.

Her comments about hating him, they are most likely true. She probably has feelings of hate for herself too at this point. I feel they are true, because many people won't say things so drastic on their own if they don't mean it - they will just say nothing at all.

If you want some more light (said with sarcasm) reading - check out some of my past, and present:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020063#000001

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=022934#000000

I have come such a long way, and I am proof that it can be done.

All my very best. I really hope this helps, even if in at least the slightest of ways.

"What makes a woman who crossed that line so much weaker, unliving, stupid and of bad character then the man who crosses that line?"


You state this Princess. But I never said that the woman who crosses that line was so much weaker, unloving, stupid and of bad character than the MAN who crosses that line!!!!!!

I am a woman myself and I consider any married person who crosses that line to be equally messed up. I truly feel, with no hatred, that people who have affairs are weak, unloving, stupid, and of bad character. All the ones I have met who have done this are this way.

But you do not have to agree with me, maybe you had affairs, I do not know.....maybe you recovered from them, great! This is merely my opinion seeing people I knew have affairs and ruin thier marriages. No one has to agree with me.

I have been weak in many ways, just not weak in having an affair.

*****Why is a spouse weak who has an affair?

Because they are not strong enough to do the right thing by thier spouse and resist temptation. They want attention so bad because they are weak. They want the pleasure of lovemaking with someone they are not married to more than the love of thier spouse.

*****Why is a spouse unloving for having an affair?

Because if they loved thier own spouse, they would never even think of cheating on them. They are doing an action that could ruin thier marriage. That is a very unloving thing to do. It shows how little they love thier own spouse.


*****Why is a spouse stupid for having an affair?

Because they are risking thier entire marriage on a few nights of lovemaking. They are not thinking of the bigger picture here. They could be spending thier free time making thier marriage like heaven instead they are out having an affair trying to ruin thier marriage.

*****Why is a spouse of bad character for having an affair?

Well, because people with good character do not have affairs. They are moral honest people and temptations do not sway thier inner beliefs. But immoral people with no values have affairs because they think they can get away with it. Just as a bank robber robs banks because he thinks can get away with it. There is no moral concionce blocking an immoral person from having an affair. Their main concern is how to hide it from the spouse so they are not called on the carpet for it. I have actually had girlfriends tell me to have an affair and just keep it from my husband, that what he does not know will not hurt him! Can you believe it! I have dumped those friends since they are of bad character. I am not saying character cannot change for the better, but that the bad character is what got them into the affair in the first place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I never said that the woman who crosses that line was so much weaker, unloving, stupid and of bad character than the MAN </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, so I'm sorry, however the way it was written was as if it was directed toward women only, not just people who have affairs in general.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you do not have to agree with me, maybe you had affairs, I do not know.....maybe you recovered from them, great! This is merely my opinion seeing people I knew have affairs and ruin thier marriages. No one has to agree with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it's more of a different view or twist on a view then disagreement. However, for starters, had you read my entire post you would have noted that yes I HAD ONE AFFAIR, and YES I and My husband have recovered and are very strong in our marriage now. I can see where you would get your views from, having seen others blindly continue to ruin their marriage with an affair. My view is simply not that I was ever unloving, stupid, weak or of bad character, and if you ask my husband he will say the same. Quite to the opposite, I think it takes someone of good character, who is smart, loving and strong to admit their fault and vulnerabilities, face the devil in the shadows they have cast and step above the evil that has entered their life to face it and admit it and rise above it to be a stronger spouse. Does that make sense? Yes, I screwed up - I was vulnerable and instead of turning to my husband I turned to someone else. I got lost, but I found my way and have learned a great lessen. I promise you that I will never make the same mistake again. It takes a strong person to see the wrong in their choices, not a weak one. Yes, I can see where your view would come from - I used to, and actually still do feel horrified by people who boast about an affair, or shows that glamorize them. It's an ugly thing that overcomes the person inside, but it's how that person deals with the truth when they realize it that dictates if they are smart or stupid, if they are loving or unloving, if they are strong or weak, and if they are of good or bad character.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They want attention so bad because they are weak. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It wasn't like that at all. However, I can't even explain why at this point. Many affairs don't start out with that intention. They start out with a hi here or a hi there, and by the time you are so engulfed in it you don't know how you got there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because if they loved thier own spouse, they would never even think of cheating on them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never did think of it. I was always one of those that never would have imagined I could do anything of this sort. Unfortunately, if you blindly believe it cannot touch you then you cannot properly safeguard yourself against it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because they are risking thier entire marriage on a few nights of lovemaking. They are not thinking of the bigger picture here. They could be spending thier free time making thier marriage like heaven instead they are out having an affair trying to ruin thier marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, they are risking everything, but many are not intentionally trying to ruin their marriage. Many will think of the bigger picture and try to get out but somehow feel trapped and don't know how, just as they really don't know how they got there in the first place. In truth, many affairs are not that cut and dry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, because people with good character do not have affairs. They are moral honest people and temptations do not sway thier inner beliefs. . . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, people with good character make mistakes too. However, it's people who do not have good character that do not learn from their mistakes, continue to hide from the truth, and fail to accept their role in the destruction they have created. Even moral honest people are swayed by temtations - whether they fully act on them or not, they can and are swayed (not just speaking with Affairs, but many different things in life).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have actually had girlfriends tell me to have an affair and just keep it from my husband, that what he does not know will not hurt him! Can you believe it! . . .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I can believe it, and it's that type of thinking that makes it hard for those who really regret their actions and are trying desperately to fix the wrong they have done to be beleived and trusted. Yes, I have to agree, that is bad character.

I totally understand where you are coming from with your views, but can you at all see where I am coming from? I guess because I have been that WW and I have actually taken the time to face the skeletens in my closet, to answer any and all questions my husband had, to see and feel the pain in his eyes, I guess I can see things in a different light. I am not proud of what I did in any manner, and I do not justify it in any way for anyone, but I do not feel that I am a horrible person, then or now, I just made some very very horrible choices, and I am ever so glad I was strong enough to face that and rise above it.

I am sorry if I upset you with what I wrote. When reading your first post I took offense to it, mainly because of all I have been through to get to where I am in my marriage today. I have not earned the title of stupid, weak, or of bad character. Maybe I am a rarety, but maybe just mayber there are more WS like me waiting to rise above their own demons.

I am glad you got past this and learned from it. And you are right I should not judge people. What if it happened to me?

You and I might agree on this thing:

Don't you think a person "must be remorseful after an affair, learn from it, and completely change never to have one again" in order for thier spouse to trust them again?

Otherwise, the BS could trust again and again and be burned again and again also! That would be sad.

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quote: I'd dump her like yesterday's garbage!

You have no kids, you see now how her character is now. If you had seen the type of person she really was (a cheater and liar) then would you have married her or would you have RUN!

She can cry, sob, and be a real good actress but it is what is in her heart that counts. Look at her character and her actions.
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SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Ok let's stopping beating up Baba and give Radio76 more good advice, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I totally understand your confusion, having to deal with this is a nightmare. I am dealing with it and like you, I am young. I am 25 and my W is 22. We have been married for only 2 years, together 3. In these 3 years she was abroad for 1 where she had 2 A and I had 3. My Dday was on March 21st, almost 6 mos. ago. I remember when I found out I was devastated, just imagine the whole truth came out within a month, 5 PA. CRAZY!!!!!! Just like you are now, I remember asking myself, what am I doing here? I am young, I have a whole life in front of me, is it worth staying? And all those doubts that you are having now. My W was transformed after we found out about each other A's. She became the perfect W and I was ready to leave. I looked for excuses and excuses to be out of this relationship. Among them my age "I have the world in front of me."! I don't have kids! etc. But she cried, we fought, she asked me to forgive her and I always ended up staying. Like you, her tears were enough to make me reconsider my decission of leaving her. We started MC and a lot of things came out, we had a lot of resentment towards each other, we felt we rushed into the decision of getting married, I felt it was going to be harder for me to achieve my goals now that I was married and she felt the same, we had a very bad communication, etc. After fights, negotiations and lots of work, we began to reconstruct everything. It was not easy and still it is not easy. All these drama we lived made me understand her, made her understand herself and made me understand myself. It was a big process of self discovery. The most important is that we began to rediscover the love we once had for each other. Little by little the things improved, but we had to face another challenge, we go to school in different towns. 6hrs away from each other. I again had doubts, after living a year apart, 6 months of hell, was I ready for separation? Nope, but I loved her. She left on August for school and we are still together. In fact, she came this weekend to visit and we had an amazing time. We fullfilled each other and reconnected in so many ways. Ironically, living apart again is giving us a buffer for the up and downs. Every time we see each other, we give the best to each other, this is being really helpful on rebuilding love. I am again her main support and she is mine. But most important this test is giving us the opportunity to rebuild trust because we are living apart and doing what we were supposed to do the first time; to love each other. I know it is hard and I am not saying it will work like this for you. Do not take any decission now, you need to heal and you need her for it. The only decission you can take now is to understand her, you, and why this mess happened. If after you answered all these, you still feel like leaving, leave. But you may fall in love with her again. (Which is not bad because your words express pain, but express love too.) If you fall in love again, I can tell you that you will have a better relationship because this pain will for sure make both of you mature your relationship. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Janei, thank you so much for you post. It is helpful to know that there is someone else in a similar situation. I have already decided to give this more time and not make any decisions for a while. Thanks for the support.