I had a session with Steve today and am following his advice.<P>After almost 9 months since D day, the day for B has come. W is still with OM 1000 mi away. She left on Xmas day. She says she will come back Jan 28. But, she has not yet committed to a recovery plan and I fear that she will continue her A over the internet when she comes home as she has for over a year.<P>I told Steve that I had been sending her “news” e’s almost daily. He said it was getting to be too dangerous to continue. I said what do you mean dangerous, told him that I felt almost normal. He said maybe you think so right now, but what you’ve really done is compartmentalize your hurt. And later on, the magnitude of it can become overwhelming.<P>We men are good at that, he says. He said you need to protect yourself and your remaining love for her. Especially if she wants to come back and continue her IM’ing with OM. He said need to get a recovery plan agreed to before she comes back.<P>I guess this is why women leave men more often than the other way around. We can “contain” the hurt in a little compartment and manage to get on with other things we have to do. Apparently, we can’t do this forever, though.<P>Anyway, this whole thing scares me. But I really understand the reasoning behind it. FYI, here’s my letter to her (also copied to OM):<P><BR>My Dear Wife:<P>I love you and still want you as my wife for the rest of our lives. I know now that I failed to meet your most important needs. I sincerely regret my mistakes and I regret that we are now both suffering from them.<P>I am willing help create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your affair once and for all and take steps to insure that no further contact takes place.<P>Until then, I will avoid seeing you, talking to you or communicating with you in any other way. I will not be sending you any more e-mails. I ask you to please respect this decision to separate from you in this way. I have tried to make it clear to you how much I have suffered. I still love you, but I simply cannot have any more contact with you as long as you are continuing your affair.<P>I have made arrangements with _______ for us to communicate when necessary. If we need to communicate about something, it will have to be through her.<P>As soon as you are willing to permanently end your affair, I will be willing to discuss our future together. I loved you when we were married more than 22 years ago, and I still love you. I want us to both be happy and to feel whole. I want us both to learn how to communicate with each other, care for each other, protect and respect each other. I want this more than anything else in the world! But this cannot happen as long as you are continuing your affair.<P>Love from your husband,<P>Well, any comments?<p>[This message has been edited by Wide_Mike (edited January 19, 2001).]

Why are you sending a copy to OM? Is this with Harley's recommendation? I think it sounds right. You state what you want, you don't blame her, and you say you will wait.<P>About all you can ask for. Maybe the experts will show up and respond.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Dear y Wide_Mike:<P>Good for you! <P>Plan B will take a lot of courage. I am impressed.<P><BR>The compartmentalizing idea is interesting. I wonder whether women are any good at it?<BR>It is scarey, I don't blame you for being afraid.<P>Your letter is good. I echo JL though. Does OM get a copy because Steve recommended it? Or if not, why?<P>Cyber pats on the back.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

I'm still in Plan A. W is living with OM since mid-Dec after leaving me Aug 1st. She wouldn't characterize her arrangement as an affair, since the marriage ended "long ago." So, I'm wondering if Plan B would have any effect on her--she WANTS to completely detatch!<P><P>------------------<BR>Better Than Before,<BR>WOZ

From one who started Plan B one week ago...<P>...it's a very good letter!<P>...we'll be here for you!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

JL and Bellevue:<P>Why send one to OM? See page 81 of SAA. Also according to Steve, there can be a lot of dishonesty between the WS and OP. He said A’s are based on dishonesty. For example, WS might say, "My husband is about to divorce me anyway, so we can do whatever we want without worrying about it". Or something like that. By sending a copy to OM, the record on where I stand is clear. Don't know if this kind of dishonesty was the case with my W, but, hey, Steve said follow the book and send it with a little note on the bottom like it shows in the book. My note says "I love my wife and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance."<P>Update: within hours of e-mailing the letter, W called S. She had S tell me that she was coming home early and needed to talk to me. I reluctantly agreed. Asked her are you ready to commit to recovery? She said yes, but she had a few "ultimatums" of her own. She sounded angry. I said, if they are reasonable requests, we can negotiate. But she would not tell me what they are. I asked again, are you ready to commit to recovery? She said yes. So I agreed to pick her up at the airport on Tuesday.<P>Am I nuts? I hope not. Why was she angry? I can only guess. But could be she saw the B letter as an ultimatum or threat, or maybe even an attempt at manipulation on my part. Lord knows I can be very good at manipulation.<P>Also could be who I picked as the "intermediate". I've learned that W is very sensitive about who knows what she is doing. She is actually a very moral, honest and caring woman and cares what other people think. To me, it's kind of like she went crazy. I don't really know. Although she is responsible for her own actions, I don't forget that I am not blameless in creating the emotions in her that lead to her A. Just occurred to me that one of her “ultimatums” might be to stop posting here! She knows about this site and has expressed some resentment about me ‘publicizing” what is going on. I guess I’ll find out.<P>Now, if she really does commit to recovery, I am a bit scared of the process. I think I've done a pretty good job of trying to insulate myself from the images of her being intimate with OM. But the imagination creates the images anyway. Will be hard to make them go away. As Steve says, only time and a positive "emotional history" will make the memories fade. You never really forget. I compare it to one of my wacky theories on child birth. I watched my W go through labor and the birth of my S, and I could never understand why a women would ever have another baby after the pain of delivering the first one! LOL. They MUST forget about the pain, otherwise all the families of the world would only have one kid!<P>Also, I’m guessing she may still have very strong feelings for OM. After all, she’s been on a month long “date” with OM and the A probably didn’t have time to die the natural death that SAA says usually happens. Will she go into a protracted withdrawal, moping around the house and pining for OM? I don’t know, but that could be hard to deal with.<P>Of course, she will also have memories of my rejection, avoidance and neglect to deal with. And then there’s the whole trust thing. So I guess I’m just realizing the work we have ahead of us. I’m scared of it, but I welcome the chance to try. As SAA says, there’s no easy way out.<P>BTW Bellevue, the compartmentalization thing came from Steve, but there’s an article on this site, “Why Women Leave Men” that talks about this compartmentalization thing more. To me, this article is really eye-opening.<P>WOZ: I’m not familiar with your situation, but here’s my 2 cents worth anyway. Jim can give me a slap if I’m wrong. B is not about “having an effect on her”. It may or it may not. Your mileage may vary. A and B have to work together. A is about improving yourself and creating a positive emotional history in your W. You do your best to change yourself and meet her EN’s. But you get nothing in return from her and it takes a toll on you. B is about protecting the love for her that you have left after you have A’ed to the point where there is little love left. B is also about minimizing the regret that you might feel if the A doesn’t die and you do end up divorced. If you A and B properly (whatever that means), you will know that you did all you could to save your marriage. If the A dies a natural death soon enough, then the emotional history you created with A combined with the love you have preserved during B maximizes your chance at recovery. <P>Jim: As the unofficial “greeter” for the MB forum (or are you actually official?), I have to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I KNOW that without this site we would be divorced right now. We all owe a lot to you and the unselfish effort you put into this forum. I know that you’ve gone to B and I admire your courage in “sticking to the plan”. Good luck, my prayers are with you.<P>Stay tuned.....

I'm wondering how to make a pitch during Plan A to meet W's needs, following the Four Rules unilaterally. It's best when both spouses agree to these rules together, but we're separated. She doesn't trust anything I say or do right now.<P>Neither am I confident to ask her what she's getting from the OM that she wasn't getting from me. I've been simply ignoring him and not mentioning anything about their living together.<P>Thoughts?<P><P>------------------<BR>Better Than Before,<BR>WOZ

Wide_Mike,<P>Your explanation of Plan A/B was excellent...<BR>Now about your W coming back...<P>Don't ask he to recommit to the marriage...<BR>...as your first few words!<P>Show her you love her first!<BR>Flowers...<BR>A love letter... (firm but caring)<BR>Arrange (after she sees son)... time for just you two!!!<P>The nitty-gritty is that the first "ultimatum" (and please don't call it that)... is the "no contact" (with OM)... and the accompanying letter.<P>Without this being completed first (hopefully by the end of about one week of her returning)...<BR>...you're not going to get that commitment!<BR>...and words don't matter... her action in this is what counts...<BR>......afterall... in whatever will be her "ultimatums"... are your <B>actions</B> that will count... and not just your words?!<P>About her "ultimatums"...<BR>...frame them around <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>Let her know you are in counseling...<BR>...MB counseling... (not just on the boards)...<BR>...and that the counseling/boards are not ganging up against her...<BR>...and if she wants to really... <B>HONESTLY</B>... wants to know your perspective...<BR>...that she should understand MB concepts...<P>Most importantly...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A> and<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>These are the skills <B>you</B> will be working on...<P>If she cannot accept this approach...<BR>...she needs to offer some alternative that comes real close.<P>Your relationship can be negotiated... through <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>...<BR>...your love... however... has drained too low...<BR>...and please... please... please... be firm on "no contact" with the OM...<BR>...that's what your Plan B letter said...<BR>...stick to it!<P>You may want to post to <B>K</B>...<BR>...our veteran (on GQII often enough), who actually went to Plan B... and is now in recovery.<P>Good luck!<P>-------------------------------------------<P>Woz...<P>Any contact with her?...<BR>Through kids or other family?...<P>If there is <B>any</B> contact at all...<BR>...it's got to be nice<BR>...it's got to be loving<BR>...it's got to be you showing you've changed... not just telling her you have. <P>Sometimes you can't ask her what her ENs are...<BR>...sometimes it's a trial and error thing...<P>Hang tough in Plan A...<BR>...it is about you...<BR>...and when you reach that level of lost love...<BR>...you'll know when it is Plan B time too!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Jim:<P>Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU!<P>Duh, why didn't I think of the flowers!?! Time together, etc.? Guess I was too worried about all the things that could go wrong. You are, of course, right! Just show love! Actions count more than words. Can't let the resentment and other negative feelings win this time. Thanks again. You have given me a mindset I can cling to and really feel good about.<P>About the no contact thing... I have actually been thinking about password protecting the computer she uses so she can't IM. Worried that this could be major LB. But also read about WS's are not to be trusted. Advice? I don't trust my instincts right now.<P>Also,(and I've said this in e's to her) I really want her to talk to Steve soon after she comes back. Steve suggested it. One thought is not to demand (sounds bad, like an ultimatum) anything of her until she talks to him. I worry about being firm on the no contact thing without becoming obsessed by it. Any ideas would be appreciated.<P>Thanks again.<BR>

Wide_Mike:<P>"Why send one to OM? See page 81 of SAA. Also according to Steve, there can be a lot of dishonesty between the WS and OP. He said A’s are based on dishonesty. For example, WS might say, "My husband is about to divorce me anyway, so we can do whatever we want without worrying about it". Or something like that. By sending a copy to OM, the record on where I stand is clear."<P>excellent explanation. I get it.<P>Your news is wonderful. Immediate effect! I'm so happy for you. <P>"she had a few "ultimatums" of her own. She sounded angry. "<P>This is the defensive posture of a person in denial of their wrongdoing, IMHO. I guess that's normal. My H got angry at me when I confronted him with the actual number of hrs on his cell ph bill talking to OW, he went on the offensive.<P>"I agreed to pick her up at the airport on Tuesday." Great! Carry the flowers with you! Long-stemmed red roses if you can afford it. <P>"Lord knows I can be very good at manipulation." good insight. <P>"Also could be who I picked as the "intermediate"."<P>Hindsight is 20-20. I still can't think of who to ask to be intermediary should I got to Plan B. H doesn't want anyone knowing about our problems. But to me it shows consciousness of guilt for her actions. She can't maintain she's doing nothing wrong if she isn't willing to be upfront about her actions. She knows they wont' stand up to scrutiny and the light of day.<P>"she may still have very strong feelings for OM. After all, she’s been on a month long “date” with OM and the A probably didn’t have time to die the natural death that SAA says usually happens. Will she go into a protracted withdrawal, moping around the house and pining for OM? I don’t know, but that could be hard to deal with."<P>You're a very thoughtful person.<P>You are right, lots of work ahead. You'll need to admit your past rejection etc and take responsibility for your part in pushing her away. But I believe you have the strength and maturity to do this.<P>" compartmentalization" I'll go back and re-read that article. Thanks. <P>Wide, Mike, I echo what you said to Jim. He's taken his pain and loss and given to other souls in pain. He's very clear in what he says and can smell bull****. His loss is our gain to be platitudinous. <P>Mike, if one of the conditions for rebuilding your marriage is that you not post here anymore, I'll miss you. Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Mike,<P>Do not lock out the computer...<BR>...that would be a mega-LB.<P>Offer the following...<BR>...and <B>don't</B> do this right away...<P>If you want to check up on her...<BR>...get her some software to checkup on you...<P>I know it sounds backwards...<BR>...but if you want honesty...<BR>...and for you to stay on this sight... (with questions about relationship building still allowed)...<BR>.....she has to know your not "flirting" yourself.<BR>(I know you're not... but she is sooooooo confused now)<P>Life is a paradox...<BR>...building your relationship is no different.<P>----------------------------------<P>Please... no immediate ultimatums of contacting Steve...<BR>...it's like telling a child... you have to take that awful tasting medicine... (even if the medicine was pure sugar)...<P>Take your time on this too..<BR>...acclamate her to MB concepts slowly...<BR>...but lovingly.<P>I'm working now... so I'll check on you a bit later...<P>--------------------------------------<P>BTW... <B>Belle</B>... you are sweet... <P>I care about all of you...<BR>...even now... that my divorce will be in less than 2 months.<P> <P>Jim

Mike,<P>Ditto to all the above....<P>You've got a good plan....<P><BR>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

Steve s<P>What great news that your W has indicated that she wants to recommit to the marriage. You know my story and how much those words can make a difference.<P>I think your Plan B letter is excellent, it says all it needs to say in a precise, clear and non LBing way, it has obviously had the right effect from her response.<P>From one that has been through recovery before which has now stalled I know it isn't going to be easy. You will have to be even stronger now. There will be many times when you need to bite your tongue and continue to deliver more of Plan A, Plan A and Plan A.<P>I certainly hope that you are getting the break that you needed. <P>I am also in contact with Steve and developing a Plan ahead. Like you I have to try and get her to acept counselling. I will update details later. <P>My prayers are there for your family. drop me an email if you get the chance. <P>Colin

Just want to say Mike that you are AWESOME! You are using plan B for the right reasons. Please follow NSR's wise advice - show love, don't call anything an ultimatum etc etc.<BR>I'm finally reading SAA and understand better plan A and B myself.<BR>God Bless you!! My prayers and thoughts are with you. You're doing great! <BR>

Hey Mike,<P>Just thought I'd see how you're doing. It sounds promising. I've been posting in GQII lately (more traffic and I've been mood swinging pretty low far too often lately sometime I need a quick response). I need to remember to check in here more often. The stuff happening here is real close to home for me.<P>God bless and keep up the good work!<P>------------------<BR>Bill<BR>~~~~<BR>Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."<p>[This message has been edited by wld (edited January 23, 2001).]

Mike you have a lot of support here and I really admire you and your wisdom.<P>All the best with plan b. Keep us updated, I will look for them here<P>Rosey

Wide Mike:<P>Any updates, news? How're things going?