I have been reading and posting in "Emotional Needs" since mid-December and was pointed to this forum to try and get some advice. My first post was as follows:<p>I have not posted here before but am hoping to get some advise/opinions. I found out about my husbands affair 8 months ago. We have been married for 24 years. When I found out about the A my H moved out of the house (to a friend's house). He called it a cooling off period. I called it a vacation for him where he didn't have to do things around the house or face my anger.
During the separation (8 weeks total) we started going to therapy together. My feeling is that we had a therapist that was ill prepared to work with us on our issues. After a few sessions the therapist said that because we were not "in the same place" that counseling together was pointless. <p>My H then started and has continued counseling with an individual therapist and is participating in a group once a week. I have seen a therapist myself off and on (as needed). During my sessions my therapist has said that she feels I have my "head on right" and that I should just "file things away" to help me decide what to do.
Anyway, in my opinion, NOTHING IS REALLY HAPPENING!!! <p>I know that my H has ended the A or I wouldn't still be here. The problem is that I don't feel that he is trying to meet any of my needs. I have expressed my concern that we are not in counseling together. His response is that he is "working on himself" right now and isn't ready or able to counsel with me. I am begining to think that he will never be ready. I have told him how very important I think this is and he just doesn't respond. My H has got to be the worst communicator that I know, he just doesn't talk. I can literally go days without him engaging me in any real conversation. I feel like I am about to go nuts. <p>Intimacy between us is infrequent and my H seems to have a problem completing what he starts.
He says it's because he wants to be the "initiator". Let me say that if I wait for him to initiate anything I will be waiting a very, very long time. <p>I don't see any marked changes in my H's behavior. I on the other hand have bent over backwards to attempt to meet his needs. Prior to my H moving back into the house he went through a laundry list of things that he needed from me like; a separate checking account, wanted to do his own laundry, wanted the ceiling fans to be left turned off. All very trivial things in my opinion. When I talked about my needs; the need to feel loved, cherished, important, like a priority, he told me that my needs were VERY BIG and that he really needed to focus on himself first before he could attempt to try and meet my needs. <p>So my questions is; Am I expecting too much too soon? He says things will take time. I say 8 months is giving it time. The only time he acts affectionate is when I get so frustrated that I can hold my frustration in any more. <p>My biggest fear is that nothing will change. I am beginning to think that he is acting this way hoping I will eventually cool off and we can just "forget" what happened. That is just not going to happen.
It just seems to me that he should be doing everything that he possibly can to show me that he loves me (like he says he does). He should be making sure that MY needs are met and should be putting his needs on the back burner right now. I am tired of his complacent attitude. <p>So tell me am I just impatient?<p>Since that time I purchased and read SAA. <p>I think I understand Plan A and feel that I have been working this plan for roughly 6 months now. Yes I have had a couple of occassions where I know that I have had an outburst that included some LB but overall I've just been trying to give my H space to feel comfortable. I have tried very hard to be loving and have tried to meet his needs. The hard part is that he doesn't express what his needs are although I think I can safely assume that they are not that much different from any other persons needs. <p>My biggest problem is that very few of my needs are being met. My H has told me that he know he is not meeting my needs but at this point he does not feel strong enough to try and meet my needs. Its so hard to continue to be loving and accomodating when I am receiving very few loving feelings as my H has deposited very few LU in my bank. I hope that doesn't sound selfish, it just seems like he is really enjoying having me do all the work. <p>I asked my H again about whether or not he would participate in couples counseling and he told me that he wanted to "complete" his counseling first so that he would be stronger and more able to stand up for himself. <p>I feel so completely empty and devoid of love in my relationship with my H that I'm not sure how long I can continue. My H and I have only been intimate 8 times since D-day, the last time was 10 weeks ago. The most affection I receive is a peck on the cheek when leaving for work and maybe a hug when we get home. We spend very little time together. Our communication is almost non-existent, in fact my H has asked me to communicate less because he feels that he is not a good communicator and can't "compete". <p>If I talk about how I feel about things my H tells me that its uncomfortable and that he sees those conversations as negative. He also told me that he continues to fantasize about the OW sometimes (she is an old girlfriend from before we were married) and thinks about her life, etc. My H continues to be very adamant that he has not had any contact with the OW. <p>We do not talk about the future or our future together. My H tells me that he cannot make any promises about the future. My H has not worn his wedding ring in many years, I have not worn mine since D-day. I can't bring myself to out it on feeling so little love from my H. <p>What am I doing wrong? I feel like I am hitting a brick wall and should just move on to Plan B. <p>Kaitlee

I would strongly suggest you get a counseling session or two via phone from one of the Harley's here before you go to Plan B. Timing is important, as is being sure the "foundation" is properly laid b4 going to Plan B, and they are the experts. Hit "Counsel" link at top of page for more info...<p>Kathi

You say that you think the A is over, but after reading your story, I'm a bit skeptical. Especially if your H has the balls to tell you he still fantasizes about her. That's not playing nice--<p>As you are well aware from reading SAA, IF the A is over, your H would be suffering from withdrawals just like any other addiction. If he's still fantasizing about her, then he's not comitted to anything. <p>My other gut feeling that the A is not completely over is the lack of sexual contact and affection. He my be having his cake and eating it too.<p>Have you checked cell phone/email records or done any snooping to verify A is over? My WS told me two different occasions the past year that A was over and in fact it wasn't. They are very crafty (fog) and believable in the lies they perpetuate.<p>Keep posting, God Bless,<p>Guido

Guido-<p>You asked:
Have you checked cell phone/email records or done any snooping to verify A is over? My WS told me two different occasions the past year that A was over and in fact it wasn't. They are very crafty (fog) and believable in the lies they perpetuate.<p>Snooping eould be nearly impossible. Shortly after D-day my H insisted that our finances be separated. He said it's because he wanted to know more about our finances and wanted to be more actively involved. Also my H and I are both IT professionals, he would know in a heartbeat if I did any snopping on the computer. He has set up our computer so that each of the family members has to log in to their own environment, he has password protected his environment. I also do not know his hotmail address or password. <p>I have been tempted to ask him to prove to me that he is not still involved in the A but since that would be a big LB I haven't asked. Should I ask him to show me his e-mail account? If so, how should I respond when he gets mad because I know he will.<p>Kaitlee

Kaitlee--I would pose the question and BE READY for him to blow up. If he does and says it's none of your business, it's a good sign the A is still on. <p>From your post, I would fathom a guess that it is (I'm sorry, I've been there). If he says it's over, then he should be willing to give you ALL access to email, voicemail etc. Top secret work projects included. That's always a good one "Top Secret". You are his wife and unless he works for CIA/FBI or something, there is no top secret.<p>If you have cell phone, check the online site for detail or call and have a duplicate mailed to a PO Box. The cell detail is how I busted my WS. I should have paid more attention after "it was over". IT never ended--I was just too stupid to see that.<p>Do you know where the OW works or lives?? That's also a good start. If you dont', ask H for her name. Then start putting the pieces together.<p>There are a lot of resources available online to snoop, it just takes some patience. Also, if you want to spend, say $100, you can get anything you want from a cell number identified to its registered owner to DMV records.<p>Good luck. Let us know how it goes.<p>G [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Kaitlee--looking to see if good things happened, if you took any action and are OK--<p>let us know, K<p>G

I feel bad that it's been so long since I've posted. I finally worked up the courage to ask my H if he would be willing to show me his e-mail and he said "no problem" but never did show me.<p>Since then I had a business trip to Arizona and my H came with me. We had a nice 4 days but still no intimacy. After returning from our trip I wrote my H a letter about how I am feeling about things. Following is what I wrote. <p>--------------------
It has been a while since we have talked about things and I know that talking often causes you some distress, which is why I have chosen to write you this letter. XXXX, please read this letter in the spirit in which it is written; with love and concern.<p>I would like to say that I enjoyed very much our few days in Arizona. I hope that you enjoyed them as well. I know that we really didn&#8217;t do much besides be together, but that was okay with me. <p>I fear that our relationship, as it stands, is repeating some of the same mistakes that we made in the past. We don't seem to be communicating much, a lot seems to be left unsaid. This makes me very nervous. I continue to feel like I am &#8220;walking on eggshells&#8221; afraid to bring things up, afraid to say &#8220;I love you&#8221;, afraid to call you just to see how your day is going, afraid to suggest things for us to do together. Afraid of appearing controlling in any way.<p>I worry constantly about how I look to you. I want to look attractive in your eyes. I think things like; is my hair too short, too long, too blonde, am I wearing the right clothes, do I look too old, the list goes on. In writing this I know that you may think these things are petty or dumb but I really do think a lot about these things.<p>XXXX I think that you need to know that I continue to feel as though you aren&#8217;t interested in having an intimate relationship with me. I like to believe that you love me, just maybe not in the same way that I would hope that you would love me. Please don&#8217;t misunderstand what I am trying to say here. It&#8217;s just that I have so many insecurities that I really don&#8217;t feel completely sure about much of anything.<p>I really need more intimacy in our relationship. I think sometimes that because of the way that I look you don&#8217;t want more intimacy with me. I have been trying very hard to respect your wishes that you be the initiator / aggressor in regard to our intimacy. It has been 11 weeks since the last time we were intimate. I have also noticed that when I have tried to kiss you that you seem very uncomfortable and will move away quickly or will pat my arm and move away. I can only assume that you aren&#8217;t interested in intimacy with me. If that is true I really need to know.<p>We seem to be each living our own life independent of one another. In some ways I agree that that is good but I also worry that we don&#8217;t really make plans for the future. I can honestly say that right now I have no idea where we want to be in 5 years, 10 years, at retirement. I don&#8217;t mean rock solid plans but just an understanding of a common goal or at least know if the goal is common.<p>I&#8217;m even worried about talking about &#8220;if&#8221; we might want to plan a vacation together. I am so worried about &#8220;smothering&#8221; you. A lot of my worry comes from not really understanding what the smothering is. Here&#8217;s an example: my therapist told me to call you at work during the day just to let you know that I am thinking about you or to tell you that I love you. The reaction that I got was that I was &#8220;inserting myself in your day inappropriately&#8221;, like I was trying to spy on you, or keep tabs on you. That has never, ever been my intent. Then I wonder; &#8220;why would XXXX think such a negative thing about me? Why doesn&#8217;t XXXX see my interactions as those of a loving spouse?&#8221;. Naturally I assume that it&#8217;s because you don&#8217;t want to hear from me or that you are displeased by me in general. So I don&#8217;t know what to do, how to interact, so that you won&#8217;t see me as smothering.<p>I want you to know how much I really appreciate your attention and tenderness with me after my surgery. It was exceptionally hard for me to be that vulnerable especially with all of my other feelings of inadequacy. What you did for me was beyond what I could have hoped for. I know you care because of your attention.<p>The last time we talked I had mentioned that it really concerned me that you have not worn your wedding ring for so many years. I want you to know that I didn&#8217;t say that to snipe at you. I really have thought about that a lot over the years. As silly as it may sound it has hurt me that you would not wear the ring that in my eyes symbolized our marriage. Many times I have thought that you didn&#8217;t want people to know that you are married to me. I think that not wearing that symbol makes us appear available to others. <p>I know that you are still in the process of going through therapy on your own and I respect that and hope that it is giving you what you need. I would like to know what your thoughts are regarding where to go from here after your sessions are completed. As I have mentioned before I would like to discuss the possibility of marriage counseling and what that means. I feel at a loss for where to go from here.<p>XXXX I hope that what I have written has not upset you in any way, I certainly did not intend to. I simply wanted to open the door to communication in a non-threatening way and am hopeful that you will want to talk to me.<p>-----------------------
I gave my H the letter on Jan 17. On the 18th he thanked me for the letter and said we would talk about it. Since then, nothing. I mean not a single utterance of anything from him.<p>I am at a complete loss. I have no idea what to do. My H simply does not communicate at all, I've tried everything I can think of. Does anyone have any suggestions for me?<p>Kaitlee

Kaitlee,
Do not chase H, most probably A is still going on. Do snoop ... If H cell carrier is AT&T, go online you could view the detail billing. Check the most frequent and the longest phone call and start from there. Let me know if anyinfo or other public db doesn't help you for the phone#, there is paid web site that I used in the past and they could get any address from any phone, including pager# owner !.
Please check on my signature below about Venusian Lady's post CarolKH. Use it and test it. It works for most men.<p>Check the 50 sign below and use it to check H and also use it as a guideline what to leave the trail behind you when you want to string H.<p>Good luck.

Redhat,<p>My H doesn't have a cell phone so I don't know how to check up on him.

Kaitlee,<p>Don't bother chasing him. Ask him if he want to go to see a movie, late night movie and make sure you pick the one that he doesn't like or he can't go. Then start your Venusian tricks, in a big way, change your hair style, hair color, buy new parfume, go to Victoria secret to buy 1 inch undies [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] , go do your nail, buy cell and don't give him the access code and ask the phone co. to not sending the bill, view it online, open a P.O box and don't give him the key. Do not always available ... do not say "I love you", only once in a while when H is being a good boy. Miss appoinment, came late to schedule time, ... see how he reacts. If he asks about you having A ... give him a kiss and assurance that you don't have one but say fogesse line ... "I still love you, you know it but I am not sure I am in love with you right now". (Which is close to the fact).<p>I did similiar thing to my WW, she stoped from asking Dv to "you file it I am not going to do it" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . She never ask me about me having A so I don't have the pleasure to give back her lines. Her A still rampant [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

K,
Regardless of what your H says until such time as he is trying to satisfy your ENs you are not in recovery. You are in Plan A. And Plan A says you do everything yourself and you can expect nothing in return from you H (as far as satisfying your ENs). This is so tough. Your LB$ can go negative.<p>I tend to agree with G. 4 days and no intimacy - separate accounts etc. It sounds like your H is either still in A or wishes he was and is not over the A whether he is actually seeing the OW or not.<p>Plan A - get yourself right and be strong and keep your eyes open.<p>Best of Luck
Coping&Hoping