I am so new to this site and the concepts I don't even know about all the abbreviations and what they mean. I am almost too numb anyway to care. This will be a long one, so please bear with it.
I just found out that my wife has had a continuing affair in my absense (I guess that's what Dday means). I am a business man that has to travel for periods of weeks, even months, and the last trip had me in Japan for four months, our longest seperation. This is when the affair began. At least this is the first I know about.<p>Our relationship has been so satisfying and so meaningful and deep on all levels I am beyond shocked at this, I am devastated. This is wose feeling than my mother passing from cancer years back. While I can recognize that it is grief I feel, the pain is so much more potent and real. My ups and downs are all the time. I think I would rather have been made aware that I had 2 days left to live than to have had this morally bankrupt crap explained to me.<p>Normally I am not a jealous man, and I have been faithful to her, have even gone as far as to avoid contact with the opposite sex when initiated, and for some reason with me, women often initiate contact. Anyway, for some reason shortly after I got to Japan I had very bad vibes, I was even late for work the first time I felt something was wrong, because my heart was beating so fast. <p>I had my suspicions that there was something going on, became morbidly paranoid and within that mindset I used counter-intelligence, manipulation of mutual friends and other recourses to find out the truth. <p>Also relevant is that she has an enabling friend/ coworker who was complicite in the affair, even present during nights when he was with her. I have always felt something regarding her friend, I knew she was up to no good with us . I just seem to know things, that's the only way to explain that. <p>At any rate, it has been about 4 days since I had the suspiscions and other things confirmed by her, and I have no idea how to deal with the suffering I have endured. It's almost funny in some pathetic way because I had her followed and was already told about this guy, so somewhere inside I knew, but until she actually told me I guess I just didn't "know". I thought this would be easier.<p>So far I have balled up in a corner and cried like a baby at least three times a day, I have drank more Jack Daniels shots than any man should, I have come dangerously close to using my resourses to have him broken to bits, and I have booked a ticket to fly away from her and turn into a ghost. Today I missed the flight even though every voice in my head has told me to escape. I missed the flight because when I am with her I want her and want this madness to be something we can deal with. When I am not with her I am totally convinced that it's not worth an ounce of effort and that she is capable of destroying me. <p>Because of the level of lies and deception given to me (and believe me it was incredible what was kept from me) I can't stop being suspiscious of EVERYTHING now, and I feel like every time she goes out she is seeing him, contacting him. She has phoned him in my presense, and told him that it's over between the two, that I had found out everything and what they did was wrong. However I have since learned that he is still contacting her, and it is being facilitated by this friend/ coworker. I have also come to find out that he is in love with her. <p>I am running out of options quickly, and even though we have been heaviliy in dialogue the last few days, and even though we have tried some of the concepts outlined on this site, the pain is not decreasing, in fact it feels worse now.<p>PLEASE HELP ME!!?

There are literally dozens of people (including myself) that have been right where you are now -- wayward wife (WW), friends who were accomplices, and hurting worse than if your entire family had just died.<p>The good thing for you is that you found this place. This is a safe haven -- a place of healing for those of us in your situation. Take a day and read everything you can at this site. As soon as possible, get and read the book Surviving an Affair. Seek out a good counselor. You may want to talk to your doctor about anti-depresants (we bretrayed spouses (BS) keep the drug industry in business).<p>This will likely be the most miserable time in your life. I won't lie to you on that. I do know, that you (and possibly your marriage) can recover from this. You can't see that now (I could not either when I just learned - I had thoughts of suicide) but you will as you learn more about why this happenend and what you are going through.<p>You have been betrayed in the worst possible way. It is not possible for you to be trusting at this time. You should not even waste your effort trying to be. My WW has given me access to her email and I still wonder at times if she can send out an email and delete the sent message before I get a chance to see it. Trust will not come again quickly.<p>Read as much as you can, ask questions, and post often. We are all here to seek help, to give it, and to heal.

Thankyou for your kind words. <p>I have found a brief respite from all the suffering I felt and that relief has come from this web site. <p>I have a few questions; should I consider that this affair is not the first one, should that even matter at this point, and should I get her into councelling - this is all considerring I will try and work it out with her - which I still am not sure.<p>My other questions are - is there any sign or moment of clarity from which I will know we are worth a second chance? Is there some breakthrough I can manifest through efforts you may know? What did you do when you discovered your WW? Did you have thoughts of committing your own affair or anything along those lines? I also have had many thoughts of suicide in the past few days.<p>I have had previous access to her email for some time, but my wife is incredibly recourceful - so when given the opportunity to gain access again I did nothing. Where we live there is no local call records, so I can not discover whom she speaks with in my absense. and I am almost sure if she still has motivation to hide things that she will find a way.<p>I will certainly take your advise and buy the book, but your attention to this has already helped me somewhat. Thankyou again

Don't give up too quickly. Keep coming in here. I'm pretty new at this and have been where you are now. The devastation is incredible. But it will lessen and you can recover. Just hang in there. <p>Keep reading in here all the posts and keeping posting yourself. People in here are so helpful and when they can't help they are just supportive. You're not alone. You're not going through this alone....

Hi Daniel..... My H had A......I felt every bit of what you're feeling........I told H...that finding out he was dead....dont think could have hurt as much.....I lost my Dad and found out this all at the same time.....and this was more painful to show you how much it hurts.....I too thought of suicide....it hurt so badly.......Well our D day was Dec 27th ....and happy to say......due to him being so sorry about....and really trying to make amends.....we are doing ok right now.....In fact closer probably because of.....Not to say that I still dont have my down time when thoughts come to mind..But not as often now and due to this web site......have had advice on what to do when the thoughts come....Stay in this site...Keep posting....venting......That helps.......and all here know the pain....and can help you.....YOU will feel lots more before you feel any relief....But time will help.......Good Luck.....please feel free to email......Helps to talk about it.....Hang on......Linda......

Daniel, I know the pain you are going through. My D-day (like Linda's) was 12/27/01. It has been 1 1/2 months and I am still having serious problems. But it will get better. I know the gut wrenching let the world end feeling and I strongly advise you to see a doctor for possible anti-depresants. I, myself spent 8 days in the hospital, my depression got so bad. So number 1, take care of yourself. By all means get into counseling and if she is willing get her in there too. Read, read, read. And you need to get them completely separated. Does he live in the same town? Does he work with her? Read about Plan A. It is probably the hardest thing I have ever done, but with the grace of God, I am keeping it up. <p>Main thing right now is to take care of you. The people on this site have been wonderful. they always have given me good advice. Don't ever be afraid to come here and vent or ask for advice.

I have a few questions; should I consider that this affair is not the first one, should that even matter at this point, and should I get her into councelling - this is all considerring I will try and work it out with her - which I still am not sure.<p>It is entire possible that this is not the first and honestly, I don't think it all that relevant unless she has an addictive personality or some sort of personality disorder (as my WW does, not her first affair). Definately ask if she would go to counseling with you or seperate. It is critical to recovery in my opinion. Don't make any life altering decisions (like ending the marriage) at this time. We have no idea what we will want even a couple of hours from now.<p>My other questions are - is there any sign or moment of clarity from which I will know we are worth a second chance?<p>Not specifically. Only the two of you can decide that. I would say that all marriages are worth a second chance -- as long as the partners have a willingness to work on the marriage.<p>
Is there some breakthrough I can manifest through efforts you may know? What did you do when you discovered your WW? Did you have thoughts of committing your own affair or anything along those lines? I also have had many thoughts of suicide in the past few days.<p>I had all those thoughts. Luckily, from growing up in broken homes and knowing that my father cheated on my mother, I knew I never wanted to do that to my spouse -- and I also have too much respect for myself to lower myself to that sort of behavior (of committing my own affair). I went into shock when I learned of the affair.<p>There are machines you can by that record calls (I think) You can plug them up to another phone in the house so she does not know. Be sure to check with your state laws because there are a few states where doing such is illegal. If she has a cell phone, you can get detailed billing (typically). If she uses a laptop or a computer, you can install spector and eblaster (from www.spectorsoft.com) to record keystrokes including passwords. If you still have doubts (as I did), you can hire a PI, they are expensive but worth the peace of mind. The PI catching the two of them together, after she said it was over, gave me the strength I need to move to plan b (you will read about plan b in the SAA book).<p>If she says it is over, she should be willing to follow the steps in the book. That means no contact what so ever with the other man (OM) unless it is necessary (like work) and even then, she should start looking for another job (if that is the case). She needs to allow you access to all parts of her life including email and voice mail, and she (and you) need to account for all of you time.<p>The book will cover this in more detail.

Since my last post, I have purchased Dr. Harley's book. I am reading it and trying to apply the concepts to our life. We have begun discussing her leaving her job and us relocating. My wife is SIngaporean and I am Canadian, so we have always had two homes and facilitating a move would not be impossible. <p>By the way Longing, 1 million times I thank you for your advise on the cell phone records, because after reading that just moments ago I told her that I would access local call records which prompted her to confess to having had two conversations with him since the "no contact agreement". <p>I am only suspicious now of the topic of conversation - because my W said it was only to apologize to him for everything - for using him (?) - because apperently he is in love with her, but she does not and did not ever love him. Any comments? I don't know what to think about this. <p>Today will be Valentines Day here in Singapore and I am extremely worried about her going to work and contacting him - or him stopping by her shop with gifts. In her honesty she admitted that he has visited her one time since I got home from my business trip. I have considerred asking my friend to surveill her from the minute she leaves 'til she comes home - but I am getting tired of all this spying. If she will do it anyway, why bother?<p>Her honesty has surprised me, this is for sure, but I wonder sometimes if it's everything. I know she is still hiding things from me, aspects of the relationship, if only to cover her [censored] or to avoid causing me any more pain. I feel a powerful need for her honesty now, for her to grant me the respect she has denied me over the four months the affair took place, full disclosure. Will I ever know that she has disclosed everything to me? <p>As for Spector, I considered getting it, along with e blaster - even downloaded info on it. The problem I have with actually buying and installing it is that I know my wife's level of intelligence - she will never use a computer to communicate and keep things from me because she knows I would find out about it. I am very adept with all things digital, and she knows this because I had hacked into her emails previous to coming home. It would be a futile purchase. My wife is very slick.<p>Another way the book has helped (I'm still reading it) in that my business involves travel, and Dr Harley gave me a potential solution. In three months I will have to travel to Spain, and that was 1 reason I knew would have to leave her - because I know leaving her to her own designs after this A is the wrong thing to do and would cause incredible stress to me. This book has offered me some alternatives to me and that is a great bonus, but any other ideas you all may have on this subject would be appreciated. <p>A previous post by amh (?) asked if he worked with her or if they live in the same town. AMH thank you for your support, it's comforting to know that I have someone to talk to. Anyway, they met through her work but he does not work with her - and yes he lives in the same town.<p>I can't thank you all enough - your voices and support have given me hope that there is something I can do, some way I can deal with this instead of letting it overcome. Please keep in touch as this process I am considerring is arduous and I don't want to screw up and make the wrong choices.

Oh I forgot to ask you guys; Is there anything that I can do to avoid the flashes of A coming into my mind? Sometimes they are so painful I feel like it will lead to me abandoning this effort completely.<p>In the last few days I have made a conscious effort to spend time with her as friends to see if I was capable. In the times we were doing things (like dinner, movies, playing pool, e.t.c...) I would have so many flashes of her in activities with him and it clouded everything.
?

Believe it or not, they gradually begin to fade, you will never forget, but it will be in the way far spaces of your mind...besides when you get to working at saving your marriage you will be thinking of so many other things...I'm not a professional, trust me! HEE HEE

Oh, also, as for the Contact after the No Contact phone Call...
First time she phoned him was to say, and I quote, "I was worried that something would happen to me after telling you about the affair." The call was made minutes before the "no contact" call happened.<p>The second call was a few days ago, when she had gone to her Aunts for dinner. This was, and I quote, " because I wanted to apologize to him for causing this - for having used him, and to ask that he not resent BS" She also said "I wanted to do it my way". <p>Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't just assume these are more lies?

Danielsan1000<p>How do you hack into emails????? (aol & hotmail)
The info would be much appreciated!!!!
thank you!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

By the way Longing, 1 million times I thank you for your advise on the cell phone records, because after reading that just moments ago I told her that I would access local call records which prompted her to confess to having had two conversations with him since the "no contact agreement". <p>You are very welcome! The content of the conversations is not all that relevant. ANY contact means that she will have to start the withdrawal process all over again. They need not express their feelings for each other for those feelings to get reignited, simply by talking to them. We can feel love for someone we care about by simply being in the same room with them. Our WW and the OM are no different. It is very important to keep them apart as much as possible so that she can go through the withdrawal and to be able to work on the marriage.<p>Hopefully, she apologized for what she did and she will no longer do it. Perhaps you can explain to her that no contact is as much for her as it is for you. Any contact with a previously lover will bring back memories that will make it hard for her to move on.<p>If she will do it anyway, why bother?<p>Exactly. Somethings will give you peace of mind (like phone records) but you will not have peace of mind all the time. She could be calling him from work and you would never know. Hopefully, her behavior will eventually compensate for those times when you don't have peace of mind. I honestly cannot say if it ever will. The two most enjoyable times in my life occured while my wife was in an affair so at this point, I will have a difficult time even when she does compensate me.<p>Her honesty has surprised me, this is for sure, but I wonder sometimes if it's everything. I know she is still hiding things from me, aspects of the relationship, if only to cover her [censored] or to avoid causing me any more pain. I feel a powerful need for her honesty now, for her to grant me the respect she has denied me over the four months the affair took place, full disclosure. Will I ever know that she has disclosed everything to me? <p>I am in the same boat. Honest and Openness is my biggest Emotional Need (EN). If I could get that, I would go a long way to making me feel happy with our relationship.<p>I really think the two of you need to go to counseling together. Set up agreements so that she can feel comfortable telling you everything. It is very important that we not be left in the dark. The truth may hurt but the truth is clensing.

Also, when it comes to honesty, don't question if you can avoid it. Let her be honest, thank her for being honest. Smile at her if possible when you say thank you, and try to leave it at that. I KNOW how hard that is. My WW has told me details about her sexual activities (frequency, where, type of sex acts *shudder*) and it is VERY hard not to say more than thank just, "Thank you for tell me that."<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Longing ]</p>

Keep working!! I promise it will get better. I hope you can answer a problem for me, since you seem to be computer literate!! How do you hack into her e-mails. My WH changed his password and that was not problem because I just answered the secret question and changed it back. Unfortunately he found out because I found a very incriminating e-mail to his sister. Now he deletes everything right after he sends or receiveds. Any advice?? <p>I am praying for you and your wife. I know this is a very, very hard time, but keep your head and keep reading!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by amh:
<strong>Keep working!! I promise it will get better. I hope you can answer a problem for me, since you seem to be computer literate!! How do you hack into her e-mails. My WH changed his password and that was not problem because I just answered the secret question and changed it back. Unfortunately he found out because I found a very incriminating e-mail to his sister. Now he deletes everything right after he sends or receiveds. Any advice?? <p>I am praying for you and your wife. I know this is a very, very hard time, but keep your head and keep reading!!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>eblaster and/or spector (both from www.spectorsoft.com) From what I have read on them, they will record everything, even take pictures every few seconds (you determine how often).

Well everyone, I think this is it. I have just gone through her phone records (with her) and discovered numerous contact with OM over the period before I told her I knew, and after. <p>You have all been a a beacon to me in a brutal storm and I tried to reach the shore, but I have sunk under ther weight of this new revalation. I now have the visions always, not briefly, always. Thoughts of her and him are always in my minds eye, poking fun at me, disgusting me. I am tired of it all. She has a tattoo of my name on her lower back. It was once a powerful gesture of her devotion to me. Now I see her bent over and him looking at my name while he £$$% her. It's all to sick and reviling. How can this program help that? <p> I appreciate the help, but seeing the evidence now, the hour long conversations between her and him, the calling me right after talking to him, the knowledge that I was interuptting them and she still felt no guilt about it.... well this is all too much for me to take. <p>It has shattered any hope I had of working this out, and right now I feel like I have to leave her for my own sanity and safety. She has continually lied to me right up and until the phone records came in, I knew the two extra calls couldn't be the only ones. <p>How can we sit here and justify wanting to continue with a person that can be this sick and horrible? How can I ever know that she loves me now? After I I told her I knew, even the day I arrived. The day I got in she talked to him at least 9 times - and messaged him more. It is horrible. This is worse than the worst nightmare I ever had. <p>By the way, the dreams never hit me til tonight, but I have them now, and cold sweats in my sleep. I think I lost ten pounds in the 1 hour I managed to be unconscious. I turn this pain over to you all in the hopes that you will understand, and I understand it likely is venting, but I can't stop seeing the visions, feeling soiled. <p>I felt like I wanted to die before, now I feel like I am going to. The woman has been a liar and cheat so much more than I knew. She says she wants to work it out - only because she thinks I want her to say it. Right now I don't think she has the ability to be a person, to me she has become something to revile and hate, not someone I can forgive.

The compulsivliarww is me danielsan1000. I guess my wife is posting on here now. When I came online I just was logged in, so I thought it was me. Hmmm... this is an interesting development. I am off to read. <p>Thankyou everyone, I appreciate it all, let me see what she has to say....

well I have read my wife's posts. Haven't told her yet that I know she is on the system, but I will I guess. Her words have spoken to my heart - I guess my last post (written without knowing it was her signed in) was not exactly a productive part of this task. Just venting I guess, feeling overwhelmed and angry.<p>The phone bill was an admission to me of her dishonesty and I guess I need to take it at that. She knew I would feel the pain and knew the risk of me hating her, but (after cursing MB up and down) she got the detailed bill and handed it over. Kept saying "how can this help?" I kept saying, "I need to verify your honesty." And therein I discovered her lies.<p>So I guess somehing positive can come from this after all. I wonder though, should we both be posting on this board? Should I tell her I know she is here? Should I let her read my posts? She is reading MB but I never knew she would actually talk to strangers about the problem, her friends have always advised her. (Which isn't neccessarily cool) <p>I know that the advise I have received from the people here has helped me to come to a few very important realizations. Come to think of it, it seems to be helping her as well. <p>Anyway, I am kinda back on track, and I am trying to ignore my triggers as much as possible.

Jeeezzzzzz!!!!!!<p>Ok here is the deal. "compulsiveliarww" is my wife. I am "danielsan1000". !!! We share a computer so when I am not around she is on, and now she is on this forum (which I didn't know). <p>I don't really pay attention to the log in name, so for those interested, the post directly above, and the post before that is me "danielsan...." not "compulsiveliarww"!!!. I can't believe I did it again, but I wasn't expecting her to be online again in here. Sorry for the confusion.