You can read my profile for more information so I'll keep my details a little brief here.<BR>We've been counciling now for several months and my wife has been focused on her issues with the "men" in her life, starting with her father. (did you read MB newsletter in November about staying in the past too long?) Anyway, in my acting out, I had an affair over the course of about 18 months, ending 6 months ago. I ended it, and I'm not interested in starting anything again, I wasn't "in love" nor was she. I'm not exactly sure why, although now I think it was a good idea, but 2 months ago my wife requested a separation. I think she saw my growing obsession with porn as an affair perhaps. Our first month apart was very difficult for me and I was trying to hold on to her as much as I could, affraid she would give up on our relationship. I realized my addiction and admitted that to her, and since then we have started communicating again and I can see she is warming to me. I may have been able to move her from withdrawn to conflict stage, (thank you for the heads up Dr about the catch of my then moving to conflict because I'm not getting heard). My question is, she currently does not know about the affair and I am convinced that I need to tell her (and I'm really frightened that she will choose flight rather than fight). I want to stay married, I believe in marriage and I believe that we can work on our relationship to point of true intimacy better than we've ever had. My question is, when do I tell her, after we've moved into intimacy again, should I wait that long? I've frankly already figured that I would use her cycle for a date, (avoiding the pre menstral time) and how much to I tell her? I mean by that, I won't hold anything back that she really wants to know, I'm not lying anymore. But I'm affraid that if I tell her too much, it may give her memories that will be harder to overcome later. I'm praying that the Holy Spirit would fill her with appropriate anger and love at the same time.<BR>Thanks for your insights in advance, I'll keep you posted.

Dear Repenting,<P>I think it is wonderful that you and your wife are still committed to your marriage. You still have a wife, and that you need to bank on right now.<P>Have you started a plan A? I think it is really important that you concentrate on meeting her emotional needs and make sure there are no demands or lovebusters.<P>I don't think I would appreciate my husband gauging timing on my menstrual cycles for honesty. He held back the truth for about 4 years, and although I knew in my heart and had strong suspicions - he denied and said I was crazy. <P>Finally he told me the truth. He was afraid of the reaction, and my reaction was not pleasant. <P>But it takes some time to deal with the shock and the hurt. And it isn't so much the infidelity that hurts, but the lies. <P>The longer you wait, the worse it will be. I think if I were you I would continue the counseling, and see the counselor on your own, and see if they can provide a safe environment for your confession.<P>She may blow up, as a reaction - but eventually she will respect you more for your truth than she feels now about the lies.<P>God Bless, and Good Luck.<BR>tnt

Welcome <B>Repenting</B> to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>Your in the right place... <P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OP/OW/OM).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! Even as a "wayward"... you <B>really</B> have to stat on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>. Yep... TNT was right again!!!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! It's good that you've done some 'lurking" already... keep it up! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on... {b]This[/b] applies to betrayed <B>and</B> wayward as well!<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! There are many waywards here...<P>We can give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>You've got to stand up soon to tell her...<BR>Don't wait on her cycle...<P>Praying for you! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Repenting<BR>Welcome to the forum, you have come to the right place.<BR>You will find people from all areas of infidelity here. Betrayers, betrayed, and sometimes an OM or an OW. This will help a lot because you will have insight into the mind of heart of each person in a given situation. <BR>I believe honesty is the best thing right now. As Tnt said the longer you wait the worse it will get.<BR>If you are afraid of how your wife will react then do as Tnt said and maybe tell her in a safe environment like with your councellor. Don't sell your wife short though. Several weeks before my husband told me about his affair I was talking with a friend and said that I would NEVER forgive that. Our marriage would be over. And here I am now trying to get past the hurt and the pain and work on a marriage that I see as really worth it. Don't get me wrong, when I heard those words come out of his mouth, for those first few hours I wanted nothing ever to do with him again...but I did get past that.<BR>There is a difference though in truthfulness and total disclosure. There are aspects of the one time that my husband and his OW were intimate that I wish I never knew. He has told me pretty much everything about that night. It makes 'the visuals' very strong sometimes and that brings the hurt up. If you had 'a song' with the OW(or several) don't tell your wife. Those songs will always be associated with painful memories for her. I may get slammed here because there are those on the board that believe total honesty is the only way to go but I am not saying don't be honest. Don't sugar coat anything. Be specific about what type of a relationship it was, how long it lasted, why you think it started...but spare her all the gory details.<BR>If she asks a question though answer it honestly, if she finds out that you haven't been honest the consequences will be much worse.<BR>I hope I have given you some help.<BR>By the way my husband is Being a Better Arik if you want to know more of our story.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited December 30, 1999).]

Dear Repenting,<P>There is so much I'd like to tell you - but let's start with the simple stuff. <P>First of all, the biggest thing I'm hearing you say is that you want to stay with your wife, even though you had this affair. The real question doesn't have anything to do with your wife's period or lack thereof. What you need to be exploring is this:<P>1) Can a marriage be strong enough to survive you harboring the secret of your betrayal?<P>2) Is it fair for you to keep this from your wife? To smile at here every day as if nothing ever happened?<P>You see, I feel that it's better to have the truth out - I speak from the heart on this one. When I betrayed my husband over six months ago, I knew that this was a secret I could not hold in my heart and not go crazy over it. I knew I had to tell him, regardless of the consequences. Yes, it was the most horrible moment of my life and most likely his too. But we have managed to work thru it and are together now, happy.<P>Repenting, you have addressed issues in your life which you need to change and work on. Your wife is your life's partner, the other side of your strength. How can you work thru them without her knowledge and support? You will fare much better with her there beside you in this. <P>As far as your issue with pornography - this is how I personnally look at it. Subscribing to porn itself never hurt anyone - same as booze in a bottle never hurt an alcoholic. BUT - what you DO with the feelings the porn evokes in you is what counts. How does it make you feel about you? Does it provoke violent tendancies within you? What is wrong with looking at beautiful women? You may just be a very healthy, sexual person trapped in a religious person's underdeveloped moral playpen. Get it? Now, if looking at porn bugs your wife, that may have to do with her self-esteem issues, something you can help her with, but nothing you have any control over. <P>A little over a year ago, I found some pictures my hubby downloaded off the net of some dark-haired, big buisty women. I had the uncontrollable unreasonable worry that somehow, this woman would take or had taken his love and desire of me away. Ha! And I thought - Jeeze, I married a pervert and I didn't even know it! But, then I realized that it had to do with how I feel insecure about me in general as a person, not the woman on the screen. He still looks at it from time to time, he doesn't try to hide it from me, but he doesn't allow it to detract from anything in our relationship - that is, he doesn't look at X-Rated pics in favor of sex or time spent with me. He'd much rather have the real thing with me. So, he can look without me dying over it because I understand him and his needs better now. He's a sexual person and if I'm not around and the need strikes, as it does in men,I see it as a healthy outlet.<P>I am long winded, I know, but there's still more I want to say. I do not believe that pornography led you to commit your affairs. Your affairs came about due to several factors, the greatest of which was probably you not getting your needs met by your wife, not because you're a heartless, bad person. You sought a solution to a seemingly unsolveable dilema. It's not the end of the world, but the end of an era of innocence in your marriage, an end of an era of trust. Now comes the hurting, the healing, and the building. Oh, and, don't kid yourself, your wife probaly already suspected the affair - it may be nothing short of a catharsis for you to confess. Something that goes on for as long as your affair did then ends all of a sudden does not go unnoticed by someone you live with.<P>Ok, last point and I'm done for now. Who told you that you are addicted to porn? A qualified, licensed person who can make that call? Or is it your own thought? EIther way, I don't know if you have hit the target issue. I don't feel "addiction" is quite the right word to use here. I think it may stem from repressive sexual attitudes hidden within YOU. There is nothing wrong with the human body, there is nothing wrong with sex. It's only wrong when it hurts or could hurt someone, and that's the truth. Rape is wrong, pedophillia is WRONG WRONG WRONG, incest is wrong, cheating is wrong - they all hurt someone, for life. Veiwing nudity is NOT wrong! I'm sure I'll offend someone here, but oh well. This is a big world full of lots of opinions, and my goal is to help you see this situation and yourself in a different, more optimistic light. Let us know what you decide to do, and remember, we'll be here for you to help you thru this all.<P>Khyra

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the support here. Thank you all. These points are well taken. I'll had some detail that could explain a few things. First of all, I'm not real comfortable with the term addiction, however,I don't want to deny it either if there is something to it. I know that I've had a compulsion, (no one harmed, except my wife emotionally) to "act out". I have only recently given myself permission to masterbate, I've have felt guilty about that since childhood. That has helped tremendously to take the compulstion away, all though I don't think my wife approves of it yet.<P>Please don't misunderstand, I'm not blaming my affair entirely on "addiction", but it wasn't your typical bed someone you know affair, we met on the net and where in bed the next night. I was very clear that I was in it for sex and she was too. One of the motivations to end the affair was that it was started to become an entangled affair, she was expressing feeling for me and was in the process of seperating from her husband, that scared the bejeebers out of me, I never wanted a divorce, just to be made love to. My wife will admit that she has initiated sex with me no more than a handful of times in our 16 years.<BR>Clearly through the affair and I'm sure before, I was not meeting her emotional needs either and for that reason she is indifferent to the marriage right now, she took her rings off when she left. In all my acting out, massage parlors, stip joints etc, I never have taken my ring off.<BR>I put too much emphasis on her cycle, and I didn't mean to, I just thought she would be in a better emotional state if I talked with her soon, during her fertile time. No offense. I didn't want to ruin her holidays with her family so I wanted to wait until she comes back to the home area. I'll be seeing our councillor on Monday, she sees him on Thursday. When I told the councilor about the affair, (2 weeks ago) he suggested that I might wait just a bit because of her indifference. Since then though we have had several good visits over the phone and I think she doesn't have the hate feelings toward me right now.<BR>One other concern that I have is the counselor and her brother in law who is a councilor as well. I don't think they are necessarily encouraging her for divorce, but I'm not hearing any talk about reconciliation from them. I'm hearing phrases like, it may be too late for this relationship, but get well for the next one and that my "addiction" probably started before I met her and that it's not about her.<BR>I agree the affair and addiction, if there is one isn't about her necessarily, I'm not blaming her, I'm responsible, I may have an issue with her, but that was not the way to address it. But if she doesn't ever look at her role for creating the environment for it then we are doomed.<BR>Sorry this is so long, I've been reading anything and everything I can get my hands on and when I came across this website last night about 8:00, well I haven't signed off yet.<P>Thanks again.<BR>R

Well, maybe you are seeing a counselor that isn't specialized in your marital problems - sexual aversion and sexual compulsion and infidelity.<P>16 years is a long time, there must be something left of your relationship - I don't believe I would continue to see a counselor that doesn't believe in saving marriages. Unfortunately, if your BIL is counseling your wife to end the marriage, that isn't helpful, either.<P>Maybe you would consider talking to Steve H? 90% success rate as opposed to 20 something with traditional marriage counseling. He specializes in this problem.<P>Work on your plan A, and creating a safe environment for disclosure.<P>Keep reading and posting, and check out Jim's links in his post.<P>God Bless.<BR>tnt