Jul 02 - H told me that he wanted to move out and that he had feelings for OW at work. Said that the problem was us and she was the catalyst. I take responsibility for it as well. With two little ones I was tired all the time and just didn't have it to give him (he doesn't help much with house or kids-other than playing with them). I am using Plan A (even before I found MB). Trying to listen and be supportive while he sees both of us. He says that I have annoying habits that he has to see if he can live with. (I tend to run things through my mind and come to a conclusion before I talk with him and I then talk with him without subjects..using they, it, things etc....) I don't mean to, but I honestly don't know how to stop it. He says that we don't have the same interests and this girl became his new best friend. I know I was depressed and he did try and talk to me, but I was so far gone that I didn't hear him and he didn't notice to help me get out of it. I am much better now and have snapped out of it and I am enjoying quality time with my kids and H. We are overseas in a remote place and there isn't much to do so that adds its own stress. We are due to leave in Jun 03. So if anything I am a better person now. We are talking more and he is being honest with me (at least until I caught him in the PA - now it seems that he lies all the time).

26 Oct - Found out the PA had started. He had sex twice (once one week before our 15th anniversary) and today. He of course lied about it. He says its an addiction. I am trying to understand and Plan A. Not easy. He keeps flip flopping between me and OW saying he wants to stay with me and kids and then he gets all quiet and leaves. It is so frustrating.

16 Nov - Had a great date night and I think hey we are on the right track. Unfortunately we live in a small town and she went to the same movie - not a good ending to the evening. We left right away because I didn't want to run into her. She actually text him knowing he was out with me asking where he was and he text back telling her we had to see the same movie and sorry. I respected his wishes and just kissed him goodnight. I find out later she comes over to his place after he leaves me at stays. Supposedly nothing happened (he told me he was being celibate). She is followed and her H shows up the next morning. WS scared and in trouble with work.

18 Nov 02 - No contact order given by boss. They can't see, talk, e-mail, look, or third party contact with each other until we leave here. But I am scared. This wasn't his choice. He is grieving the loss and I have to witness it. He said that he will wait until the order is over and go see her. He is depressed because she thinks he came back to me and everything is back to the way it was and he used her and how he loves her. (I have to listen to all this). I am supportive and listen even though it kills me. PLAN A......Ugh....

20 Nov 02 - I asked WH to move out. He was issued a No contact order until Jun03 for the OW at work and went into such a deep depression/grief. I couldn't take hearing him talk about her and seeing him in such pain. It was destroying my sanity. I have tried Plan A and will continue to do so as much a I can without to much contact. He only moved back in because of work I believe. WH is coming to see kids then leaves after they are asleep. My son knows something is up, but we are trying to keep it from him. Did I do the right thing? I told WH that if he can commit to our marriage 100% and never ever see/e-mail/talk to her ever again then he can come home otherwise I asked him to move out. He thought I wanted a divorce when I called him to meet him. I told him that in no way did I want a divorce, but that I thought he needed time to figure out who/what he wanted. I feel much better. We are still trying to do things as a family and we are due to move from here in Jun 03. I am just afraid he will wait until then and pick up where he left off. He told me she became his best friend. It killed me. I am trying to prepare for the worst (Divorce) in my mind. He asked if I wanted a legal separation? I said no - do you think we need one? He said he will check on it. Does that mean he is close to making up his mind? He says he hasn't, but that isn't how it feels to me. How do I try and keep my space from him when he needs to see the kids and I want to do things as a family too. The more we are together the more deposits I can make into his love bank (after this grieving period-I guess). We had a date night on Saturday. We were doing okay with dinner and wine, but of course he brings her up and I listen again. Not the evening I hoped.

28 Nov 02 - WH has been staying home a few nights when he wants to. He still goes to his place whenever he feels like it, but I am letting him stay now. Its his decision to leave not mine now. We had a good Thanksgiving and now that OW doesn't want to have contact anymore with him I am somewhat hopeful that he will come out of the fog and we can try to recover. Its hard because I am feeling so detached and disinterested in trying. I love him, but for 5 months of my trying and he has not, I guess I am tired. How can I keep my resolve/hope to work on this relationship? We have six months before we move and I am hoping that once we do that we can start fresh.

4 Dec 02 - He doesn't want to go to counseling, but is starting to read How to survive an affair and I bought His needs/Her Needs so I guess its a start. He won't tell me he loves me unless I say it first. I gave him a card stating that I loved him and I wanted to work things out, but I am getting no positive feedback at all. I know he is in withdrawal, but how long am I supposed to wait. We don't touch unless he needs a release and it isn't making love. I am so frustrated and lonely. I miss him and I need hugs sometimes, but it is like pulling teeth and that is not what I want. I want him to stay because he wants me. Am I on the right track. I am getting so numb. Appreciate any advice.
We are going out to dinner on Saturday. He said that way we could talk.

Hi Barleholdinon,
I can relate to alot of what you posted. I found out my H, the man who I thought would never have an A also was seeing a younger woman who worked for the same company. The OW was 27 at the time and has a son from a previous relationship (never married). This all started in August of 2001. H went to a convention for work in Baltimore which she was also at. She was rooming with the manager from his store and I guess she told him one morning when he called to see if they were ready for breakfast that she had plenty of room in her bed for him. At the time I was struggling with depression, PMS and was starting to come out of my fog and thinking things were getting better for us. When he got home that sixth sense kicked in. H did admit that someone propositioned him and he refused. At this point I didn't realise that it was someone who lived close by. And I didn't give it much thought. Actually I would tease him about it. I trusted him completely..
The next week he called her and they started having communication as "friends". A friend he didn't share with me. They would talk on the phone and e-mail each other from work. Not a smart cheater phone bills both fom home and cell would later show all the evidence.
He later told me the first time he went to her house was 9/22/01 the night I was having friends over for a scrapbooking party. He didn't get home till after 130 in the morning. I thought he was out with friends at a local sports bar. Again I totally trusted him. He had been pulling away from our family for awhile but as they say hind sight is 20/20. Coming home angry from work.. I thought it was just stress because he's an RPh at a very busy pharmacy. That night he later told me was the first time they kissed (he intiated). Although I think his ego was being stroked along by a younger OW who saw dollar signs.
We went away Columbus Day weekend for a soccer tounament which our children were in. He was very distant from me and I just had a weird feeling. This also happened to be our 17th anniversary that weekend. He had to leave Sunday for work Monday. I stayed with the kids for soccer on Monday. That evening (our A) he spent 4 hours on the phone with her. And my d-day wa 10/13/01. He admitted that evening he had feelings for another woman and that he went to her house on the day I worked and they had kissed but did not have sex... I lost it, I had always told him that if he ever strayed that was it. Boy how things change when you are actually there. I loved him and didn't tell him to leave (like he was hoping). He told me he wasn't "in love" with me anymore and that he loved her. He could talk to her.
He promised no contact but that was hard because she would sometimes show up at his store. I lost weight ( couldn't eat) and he was cold towards me. I was beginning to feel suicidal and he was worried about me. We started MC in Nov. 01.. This was difficult it's not always easy to hear some things. And he would tell me when he would see her ( the times he thought was convenient) I became a great detective at this time.. found out her name, where she lived and worked.
In January of 02 I begged him to change jobs, he just couldn't . I told him it would make it easier for us if he didn't see her at all. One day he called me at work to tell me he had just gone to the city she lives and works in but didn't drive to see her. A giant lie I later find out. A few days later I get a phone call from her. She wanted to meet with me and told me that he was still contacting her and she loved him. I lost it and called her some very nasty names ( which I still think she deserved) sl*t being one. She then had the audacity to tell me she's hurting alsoand she's not not a bad person because she has slept with more than 1 person. My H is my one n only. I agreed to meet her and called my husband that he had some real explaining to do when he got home that night that I was meeting with his wh**e the next morning. He came right home and admitted to me that he did see her that day he went to her towm to give her a christmas present and try to talk her out of loving him. Saying he couldn't give her more children and he was older than her etc etc..
That was my second d-day. I never did meet her because our MC said she would only lie and was trying to destroy my M.
I'm sorry this is long, it just feels good to get this off my chest, My H changed jobs in April and thats the last time they talked (supposedly, but at this point I do not trust him at all) .
It's now been over 6 months and he still has feelings for her.. I'm at my breaking point. I feel like I'm the only one giving 110% and he's giving 50%. He's in a better mood since the job change but it happens to be in the city she lives. I have read Relationship Rescue bought him a copy so we could work on this together. The book still hasn't been opened. I found MB and printed off the EN survey for both of us. I gave him mine and have yet to receive his back. It's been almost 3 weeks. And he promised at our last MC session he woul let me know his neeeds. I wondwer if I'll see it before our next session. He won't kiss me in passion. We still have an active sex life but that is all it is... I long to make love have him tell me he loves me during but it is just sex aphysical need.
Now to this morning.. yesterday he tells me while we are lying in bed how I left text message on his cell???? I reply what message. Come to find out someone left him a message of luv u in morning and another that evening. Don't know who did it. And he happened to be going to a hockey game out of state and was staying overnight at his bosses house. I asked him to call me when they got to his house. Told me it would be late I told him I didn't care. Needless to say he never called and I haven't heard from him since. Right now I'm so angry and hurt.
I also did some detective work and called the number that left the message, talked to another lady and she left no message (don't know if this is alie as I haven't talked with H yet)
Sorry for rambling on and on and on. Not much help for you but I'm in a very similar situation.
BS-me (41) WH (41)
Married 18 years Together 23 years
3 Kids d-15, d-12 and s-9
d-day #1 Oct 13th 01
d-day #2 Jan 23, 02
Still trying to hold on and want my M to work but tired of sharing his heart with another.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Barely Holding and Still Hurting...
Just wanted to tell you both I am in a similar situation and can empathize with what you are going thru.

I was with my H for 10 years...last year or so we had basically grown apart...spending all our times on careers. In July of this year he announced he as miserable and moving out. Moved out in August...by then I had discovered he was having affair with 23 year old college girl that worked for him. He gave me all the tried and true 'Fog' talk...he didnt love me anymore, loved me like sister, etc.

But, even after leaving, he continued to contact me, come by our house, said nothing of divorce. I Plan A'd like crazy. He started saying...well I do love you, but we just arent good together anymore.

Then, in early Sept he called me in tears....OW had given him herpes!! He was devastated...he was always a total straight arrow about things like sleeping around ( I think that is why he left to begin with...he couldnt bring himself to sleep with her while living with me). He was and still is emotionally crushed, depressed and now his already naturally weak immune system comprimised.

I was there for him, supported him, loved him...Plan A'd. He said he realized how foolish he had been (the fog lifted??) and wanted to work it out. Wanted to move back in with me...etc.

For about 1.5 months we were doing so well...talking, sharing, working on the hard stuff. I felt so much hope. Then I got the cell phone bill for November....her number all over it. This past Monday, he admitted that he was back to seeing OW and had slept with her. He now says that he loves me, wants to be with me, cherishes me, blah blah blah....but it is too hard for him to be trying so much with me right now. He admitted he is taking the easy way out and going back to her because he simply doesnt have the strength to work on the difficult stuff with us right now. He is too messed up about the STD still....back in the FOG.

I am totally confused, devastated and cant decide what to do now. Family and friends all tell me to move on....he is too messed up and I deserve better. But I still feel like we can work things out...if he would only wake up out of the Fog.

I am so frustrated and dont know how to proceed...when do you stop Plan Aing and go to B? How do you continue Plan A when he is living away and spending all his time with OW? He still calls me at least 3 times aday....but never in the evening...that is her time.

sorry this is so long...the only thoughts I have is that all 3 of us must do the same thing...read as much about the subject as we can, continue Plan Aing to heal OURSELVES, and perhaps schedule a session with Dr. Harley. I personally cant afford it right now...but am saving up for next month.

I found a great deal of good info on Plan A and what it really means (providing a loving place for WS to come back to, but more importantly working out our own issues and trying to grow) on these boards. I think there is a post out there by WorthATry that might help you too. I will see if I can find it and post a link.

Hang in there...you are already doing so much by being willing to keep working on your M and being on these boards. Take Care

Hello barelyholdingon -- I feel the pain in your posts and can only tell you that it does get better regardless of whether they wake up totally from the fog. My WH has been in an a with a much younger employee of his since February 2001. In June 2001 we tried marriage counseling, but he was so deep in denial that it was not helpful and actually made me feel much worse. For months he would make me feel as if I was the crazy one for asking where he was, etc. I asked him to move out due to the fact that he was being very successful in making me feel crazy and as if there was something wrong with me and our marriage because I would ask where he was and he would disappear all the time supposedly for work-related events and projects. WH moved out in January 2002 after I found a receipt for a bar when he was supposedly at the pharmacy. Still wouldn't admit to the A and that was the final straw for me. On the day he was moving to his own apartment to "sort out his head", I logged onto his computer and found all of the letters and emails. I felt as if I had been knocked over by a tornado and all of the wind sucked out of me.

I couldn't sleep or eat. I lovebusted all the time. I was a basket case. I eventually found MB and starting doing a plan A. I started to feel better. Our relationship got better, but I slipped every time I found out about continued contact. OW ended the R, but WH was in a serious depression and would not let it go. Our M was stuck and then I found out the A had re-started in September and I was counseled to go to plan B.

Plan A and Plan B have helped me. I can't help WH any more. The best advice I can give you is to focus on yourself and your children and not focus on your WH. During the A they are confused and selfish and will do much damage to your self-esteem if you let them.

Find other things to do. Find things to do that you've always wanted to do for you that you've put off. At first I made it a game for myself to go do something that would surprise WH, then it became boosting to my self-esteem to try something new and accomplish something new even if it was removing the storm windows and cleaning the gutters by myself (things WH had always done and assumed I couldn't/wouldn't).

I still have hope for my M, but am no longer clinging to the fear that my M will end. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Take it one day at a time. Focus on the good things in your life. It is hard and we all know you are in pain. The pain gradually subsides and becomes less acute and sharp and more of a dull and periodic ache in your heart.

Peace to you. Learn as much as you can. Read here. Post here. We will all help you as much as we can.

Thank you so much for your support and I am so sorry you are in the same predicament that I am.

The date night on Saturday went well. We talked about old times and a little about the future. He only mentioned her once and then apoligized for it. He doesn't seem so depressed or at least he is not showing it to me. He hasn't said I love you or made a commitment yet, but I am hopeful(today). I am taking it one day at a time and thinking of myself and my kids. If he is there okay, but I am working on me. Thanks again and I hope that you have the strength to continue to work on your marriages as well.

Barelyholdingon

I believe that the only reason he hasn't divorced me is because we are stationed overseas and he wants a joint assignment with me in June (for the kids). Plus we have stuff in storage back in the states. He told me that. He told me this week end that as of right now he sees us getting a divorse. He text me later stating "I don't mean to hurt you. One day at a time right?" I found a receipt for a $1100 diamond bracelet (which I am waiting to see if he is giving to me or saving to give to her). He just can't seem to let her go and work on us although he says he is. I also saw a card in his car. One of those I love you and want to grow old with you. On it he wrote "I knew it would be hard. But it will be worth it." I feel it in my gut that it is to her not me and he can't even see her!!!!!!!

I make him so angry all the time and I am so tired of trying and he isn't. I borrowed a Plan B letter off MB and made some adjustments. I am trying to wait until after Christmas before I start to make him take the kids. I feel like I have to cut myself off from him. He is so hot and cold that I am walking on eggshells all the time.

He was actually talking about punishments he could receive from the military if he broke the no contact letter. What is he thinking? He is almost 16 years in the military and he wants to throw a stripe away for what? Should I wait to see if he gives me the bracelet and if not confront him? I feel its time to cut him off now. He is not staying at our place anymore (by his choice). He is planning on staying Christmas eve so he can be there for Christmas morning. I just feel like it is hopeless.

He wants to switch the kids every week for custody. I just can't do that and he is accusing me of being difficult. He wants equal time he says. He's the one that walked out not me. He says that this would have happened anyway, that she is isn't the issue, but she is. He won't even try to work on us. He gives me no positive feedback that we are on the right track. I am floundering so bad. Please help me to do the right thing. I'm so tired of lying to my three year old that daddy is at work or the gym. He hardly even asks anymore and that made H feel better. (how is that?)

I am planning to start making him take the kids to his house after the holidays (he doesn't want to). I feel I need to do it so he realizes the effect this is having on the kids and to give me some downtime. He wants us to still be good friends and do things as a family (trips to zoo etc...) after (or if) we get divorced. He doesn't want to talk about his feelings because it upsets him and me. I'm at a loss. My friends says that I should just forget it and let him go and hope it serves as a wakeup call. How do I do that with kids. He says he wants to still go out together (just him and me). Should I? Will we still be Plan A then if I make him take the kids and try and do more on my own? Thank you for your advice. I am so glad I found MB. You and my kids are the only things keeping me sane right now.

Well we signed the separation agreement today. Funny I am feeling more solid now. Maybe because I am tired of hanging on to the marriage like it is my lifeline. I am no longer afraid of divorce. I still want my marriage to work, but right now he doesn't know what he wants. I am not in any hurry to divorce right not. Maybe he will get his No Contact Letter lifted (thats what he is hoping for now that we have the separation agmt) he can finally get over her or not. Whatever. I am focusing on myself and my kids. One day at a time. I am starting to go over to his place this weekend and he will come to my home. This way we move, but the kids (very little)aren't out of their routine and in familar surroundings. I do love him still, but am getting I guess you can say a hard heart so that it doesn't hurt so much. God Bless you all and help you through these troubled times. Thanks again for all of your support.

I went over to his place this weekend. I thought I did fine. I can deal with what happened in the past there with the OW, but now that he wants to get with her all over again. (If NC ltr is taken away by boss) I just couldn't stay there. All I could think about was what they were going to do together there. It hurt so much. I did give him my Plan B letter on Sunday stating I loved him and that when the affair is over I will be waiting. (If I can hold on that long)

CERRI or whoever may have experience: My H doesn't have the furniture or space to take the kids to his place and frankly they are to young right now to be moving back and forth (at least until we get back to the states and get all of our other furniture out of storage). How can I do a modified Plan B when he comes over and has dinner with the kids often and leaves when they go to bed. He says he doesn't mind if I am there on his weekends, but where is my time? I don't have any friends that I could stay with on his weekends. I feel like I am taking all the responsibility for the kids and he comes and plays with them. The kids (3,1 yr) don't know anything about the separation. We lie and say dad is at work or the gym etc... Once we get to the states and settled then we will tell older one.

Also, how did any of you deal with H and OW doing things with the kids. He wants to see how they interact, which I can understand, but it hurts so much. Its like a slap in the face to me that he wants to play happy family with her and my kids!! I feel so much anger and I am starting to take it out on him. (LBs). I know I have to stop, but it is so hard. So far we have been civil and are trying to work together. (Its easy for him since he's getting everything he wants). I find I can talk civil with him, but toward of the end of the conversation I make some snide comment about him getting everything he wants and he should be happy etc... which ruins the constructive session we just had. I am beginning to get such a deep anger and hatred for him that I am afraid that if he ever comes back then I won't be able to get past it all.

We are already talking about moving and buying two different houses when we get back to the states so I don't see this coming together for recovery anytime soon if ever. How do I hold on and keep from hating him. I want what is best for my children. I am trying to keep it as a business partnership for the kids and trying to distance myself, but its so hard. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Start working on yourself, get counseling, get a excercise routine going, new hobbies etc... Also, I wouldn't accomodate his desire to see his kids on his terms, especially with OW, no way. You need some legal advice on that one, a judge might not allow such an arrangement. Your H is acting very selfishly and he's being cruel. Don't beat yourself up trying to hold on to little acts of normalcy, don't try to interpet such nuances. His actions speak loudest, and you don't deserve any of this. So work on yourself and your kids, make plans and excercise a lot.

Thanks for the advice Hugh. I will try and do it.

WS has talked with OW and feels that she was playing him. I guess she cheated on him over new years and moved back in with her ex. He wants to work on us now. Hopefully, he is coming out of the fog now and we can make our marriage better. Thank you so much for all of your support especially CERRI. I don't know what I would have done without you. Thank you everyone.