My husband and I have been married for 9 years. We have 3 children under the age of 5. I am a stay-at-home mom and my husband has a good job. My husband told me 6 weeks ago that he was about to have a physical affair with someone that works for him and then did so. I started implementing Plan B but he doesn't care. He is currently going to individual counseling and so am I. He has told me many things over the past few weeks, but always comes back to 'we don't have a chance' and 'I don't want it to work'. Tonight he told me as simply as he could that his therapist has been helping him decide what it is that he wants, and he does not want to be in the marriage and he does not want the marriage to work. I feel like anything can be changed if the intent is there. That's the problem, there is no intent on his part and nothing I say or do can change that. Has anyone experienced this at all or has any thoughts? I feel so lost and blown away. During our marriage he never said anything was wrong...never, even when asked. Five months ago he started pulling away and then he had the affair and now there is no way to go back. I am in shock because everything that I thought was true is not. He says that he is not in love with the other woman, and that there is no future with her. Not with me either. Now that we are separated he said that he is happier. He has been doing crazymaking things just to get me angry and has been pushing me away further and further to the point that he doesn't believe anything I say, or trust me at all (yes, he was the one that had the affair). Why is all of this happening? I don't understand any of this....please help....anyone...

Welcome to MB. Please follow the basic concept and follow Wat's quick guide to betrayed spouse on my signature. Number one task for you is understand MB concept. There is no plan B with out plan A, sorry ... you might implement "tough love" right off the door.

Meanwhile, you are thrust into emotional roller coaster right now. This would be the 'coaster ride of your life, watch out your health and get medication if you are in danger of depression.

One thing that you have to understand that ... there might be nothing wrong with us at all in M but our spouse decides to have an A. It is his decision and you have no control or influence over it. I suggest you to get conseling with MB professional or at least make sure that your conselor is endorsing MB. We are all her just a bunch of laymen/women that share our experience and give our oppinion.

IMHO. You have to think hard on what he said before D-day and his complaint in M. You make sure you fix those thing before you go to plan B. If you see none ... I would sugest you to continue "tough love" - read Dr. Dobson's Love must be tough. Stop chasing him or trying to pursue him. HE IS IN THE FOG. He would do or say anything to continue his A !. He needs to push you away to justify his actions. Please post your profile ... length of M, #of children, ages including OW.

Hang in there and vent in here ... -rh-

Thank you for your input. I read the guidelines for a betrayed spouse and have already violated a couple of them unknowingly. When he first told me 6 weeks ago, I did the best I could at the time. I did not know about marriage builders, I was just going on what felt right. At the beginning I said I wanted to make it work, and that we should try. He said he would and went over to her house to 'break it off'. I found out later he told her that they needed to cool it for awhile. Again, I wasn't equipped with MB then, so I didn't know what needs of his were unmet. I tried to understand the situation asking a lot of questions which just pushed him further away. He went back and forth with me and the OW the first week which was something I couldn't live with so I asked him to leave. Since then I did try to break them up, and I told his work since she works there too. I guess I just wanted someone else to see how badly I was hurting and for someone else to be mad at him as well. I know this was incredibly stupid and looking back, it was probably the dumbest thing I have ever done. Of course he was furious and now blames me for everything wrong in the world, questions how I treat the kids even though he knows they mean the world to me and that I never would hurt them. He calls me manipulative, lying, and crazy. He tries to control every aspect of our lives, when, where and under what circumstances he will see the kids, etc. I know I didn't follow the MB procedure, and I wish I had all of this information weeks ago. No one I knew had an affair, so friends and family have not been much help. He is now in individual counseling as am I. Presently I can barely have a conversation with him without him questioning the validity of everything I say. Where do I go from here? Please don't get mad that I didn't follow MB, I did the best that I could at the time with what information (or lack there of)I had.
We have been married for 9 years. We are both mid 30s, 3 kids ages 4, 3, 9 mos. I don't know how old the OW is, but knows she works for him.

Don't kick yourself about not knowing MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... if we have known MB we would be able to protect our M w/ 4 gifts of love isn't it ?. Remember to keep your chin up, you are not the one who walk out of this M, he is the one. Your WH behavior is normal ... he is in fog land. He open himself up for harrasment or used by OW since she is working for him. He would do anything to justify/rationalize his action, please don't take it personally. It is about him not you, this way you could keep out from LB'ng. He got mad because "how dare you try to break his fantasy"; he push you away because "you are a threat to his fantasy". Don't get desparate, this is not the end of your M and you could try to save it. I want you to remember every time you want to LB that LB pushes them closer ! and thicken his fog.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Where do I go from here?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First get busy to learn MB inside out specially about EN, LB, LB$, plan A/B. I want you to read the link about Venusian Lady on my signature, see if it could be use. It works best for WH, good/loving history of M, and beleive it or not - he uses controling to keep you finding other man. I want you to look at your M prior to A. Put yourself in his shoes and ask "What are his complains about you in M prior to his A ?". That is plan A list for you. Also if you could handle your emotion, find out more about OW.

-rh-

Oh dear, the painful situation you're in is the excact same as mine - except from the one thing that my H thinks he loves the OW.
I know your heart is broken - so is mine. My H moves out tomorrow and he don't intend to come back to me ever.

I will not give up hope though and neither should you. Your H is in the fog right now - just like mine - but reality will kick in sooner or later. You have the strength to go through this, believe me!
Read as many posts here as you can - and post often and ask questions. It will help you a lot I promise! People at MB are a wonderful source of inspiration and a great support when you feel down...

Work on yourself - some day soon you'll feel great again!

Blessings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I want you to read the link about Venusian Lady on my signature, see if it could be use.

How can I find this?

Also if you could handle your emotion, find out more about OW.

What should I find out? I think she fulfills his need of feeling exciting and wanted. I think both of them suffer from a low self-esteem, and I think they are using each other to boost their own.

Are you suggesting I try to go back to Plan A? I am so tired of fighting that I think I might be able to do it for awhile. I am very resentful, so for the most part it would be faking it though. Right now, I'm debating whether or not he is right about the divorce thing. I'm burnt out, and him being out with her every night and not helping out with the kids or giving me any attention is just like being divorced. Like I said, I'm just burnt out....

Here is Venusian Lady Story. About your H ... I don't mean that you should open red carpet and beg him to come back .. that is not plan A. Leave him alone but don't shut him down either. If he call, talk to him but don't LB or start talking about R. What is plan A to you ?

Use this separation time to really take a breather ... away from WH. Take your kids to visit your mom and ask for help to take care for them for the day. Go and find serenity to think what you want.

BS has no choice but to plan A unless there is physical danger in doing so or you can't stop LB'ng. Plan A is not for a whimp and it is not for everyone.

-rh-

Redhat-
Thank you, I read everything from the post you sent. Very interesting. I do think that if this is ever to work out I need to invite him back into my life. I just hear so many theories and stories that I feel like no matter what I do, it is wrong. Even going on my gut instincts is wrong, which I never felt before. Anyway, you certainly gave me something to think about, and I think I will give it a try. WE have three small kids, so our relationship has to be good for the next 20 or so years. I have to start taking the high road. I can't do the fighting and LB anymore, it is such an emotional drain. Thank you again...

OK. now what is going on?....I have never been so confused in my life!!
My husband told me less than a week ago that he didn't want to try at our marriage and that it was done, zip, zero, no chance. Since then I have come here in a frantic, but have since calmed down and I think that I am at peace no matter what happens. Anything has to be better than what it is right now. I decided to just be nice and see what happens.

I asked my husband for dinner sometime and he seemed generally surprised that I asked, but he also sounded interested. He is going to find childcare and let me know.

Today we had a conversation about a cookout at his relatives house where basically he said he wanted to go with the kids and not me (because it would be like faking it) (I'm thinking, unless we were renewing our vows or something, how is that faking it?) I said his mother said I was invited and I was thinking of going. He seemed like he was going to think about it and then I added, "Well, what are you going to do about your sister's wedding coming up in July?" We are both in the wedding. I said I was going to offer to her that she can bag me out, but I doubted that she would take me up on the offer. He said, "well, she'll definitely ask me and I'll decide." I later talked with his mother and she said "no way is he deciding, if you are comfortable with it, then he can suck it up." There is definitely some control issues here. He wants to control everything I do or say.

Then, tonight when he was suppose to take the kids after work, he asked me to join them. I was definitely shocked and said I'd be happy to. We went out and it seemed a little strained which sort of broke my heart because we always did so much as a family and now after 2 months of nothing and it feels so awkward. I mentioned that my old place of work called and offered me to come back part time. I was not interested because of the timing, I don't want any more change in our kids lives at the moment. He kept pushing on it like 'why don't you do it?' 'my family can help over the summer' 'why don't you talk to them?' It was driving me crazy. He knows I love staying home with the kids, so I'm thinking, is he just trying to be nice, or does he think I am boring just being a mother?

Conversation goes OK and he leaves after bringing the kids home. He has also offered to do some things, like take the car in and get a new phone service for my cell phone. He also is still 'friends' with the OW and will not let her go.

My question is:
Is he just being nice because it is now out in the open regarding not trying at the marriage and because I am not pushing him on it anymore? I mean, we have ties because of the kids, so we should be friends because of them...
or
Is he starting to get interested again maybe due to no stress?
I can't tell!! How do you know??

Also, the other thing....I don't know if I could make it work!! I don't know if I want to make it work.... I never got his far in my thinking. At dinner that's all I kept thinking is here is a lying, SOB, irresponsible, cheating, think only of myself and forget my wife and kids jerk sitting in front of me. Is this natural? Does everyone go through this or am I just some nutcase? Now I think maybe he was right, maybe we just grew too far apart. I was happy before, but maybe I just didn't realize that I was getting my happiness from other sources. I'm so confused.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heart full of tears:
<strong>OK. now what is going on?....I have never been so confused in my life!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Warned ya about 'coaster ride of your life. This is it, you will be in the emotional 'coaster unless you stay focus and be strong on what you want.

I really sugest you to get conseling w/ MB professional. This DoItYourSelfMB is not for every one. You have to sit back and take a personal reflection on what you want out from this.

I think you read enough MB already and now you should start working on it. Look at plan A. It is about you to look what you had done wrong in M and fixing it ... regardless the outcome of this mess. IMVHO, you are burned out mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> within past 5 years you have 3 children ... after 4 years in M. It must be a shock to your M. Focus to seek balance ... you should take care of yourself first unless you are hurting others by doing so (Skillfull Taker) and you should give as much as you can unless you are hurting yourself by doing so (Skillfull Giver). So far you give to your family but ignoring yourself & sometime your H/M in the expense of the kid's need. At least one day a week you should take a break for yourself, your kids have perfect mom for 6 days ... by doing more they might have burnt out mom and worst a burnt out M. I am only layman here, you need professional help and get more details out from you. This is just my opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My question is:
Is he just being nice because it is now out in the open regarding not trying at the marriage and because I am not pushing him on it anymore? I mean, we have ties because of the kids, so we should be friends because of them...
or
Is he starting to get interested again maybe due to no stress?
I can't tell!! How do you know??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Match his actions and his words ... meanwhile don't guess or speculating just wait ... fact will reveal itself in time.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Also, the other thing....I don't know if I could make it work!! I don't know if I want to make it work.... I never got his far in my thinking.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are the only one could answer this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> At dinner that's all I kept thinking is here is a lying, SOB, irresponsible, cheating, think only of myself and forget my wife and kids jerk sitting in front of me. Is this natural? Does everyone go through this or am I just some nutcase? Now I think maybe he was right, maybe we just grew too far apart. I was happy before, but maybe I just didn't realize that I was getting my happiness from other sources. I'm so confused.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO. You are not ready to walk out from this M. Until you could have no anger, no fear and could have steady emotion in the face of your SO ... you are not ready to let it go. You might think you are but there are unresolved issues. This is why I love MB. Plan A would give you time and give your WH time. Time for you to seek what is missing from you in R ... time for your H to burn A under the daylight and see if that is what he wants. If you are willing let your H to do 4 gifts on love and of course he has to willing to do it; your feeling would be back. People grew apart but are they willing to work to make it closer ?.

-rh-

Redhat-
thank you. I know what you say is true. I have given everything to my kids and now looking back I think I did so partially at the expense of my marriage and partially from me. I love being their mom though. I want to be the best mom out there and I have never doubted that I was a good mom. I guess now I have to work on the other parts. I am OK with what I sacrifice for them on some level. I do not miss work and I'm OK with not going out everynight. I could see how this would affect my husband though. Over time he just started going out more and more without me. Of course never saying anything is his fault, but it affects all of us. don't get me wrong, I am not a dependant-on-my-husband-for-everything kind of person. For our anniversary I went to a show and dinner in town by myself because I didn't want to go with him. Yes I miss my marriage, but I know I am happy without him too.
Working on me? This is the best work of all to do....

"There is definitely some control issues here. He wants to control everything I do or say."

OK, I'm probably a tad paranoid about such issues (I had to get a restraining order against my husband) but the control thing is worrisome IMO.
Even though my husband moved out over a year ago, has filed for divorce, and we're are not planning to ever reconcile he STILL thinks my decisions are his business! I SO wish I had found some way to nip this attitude in the bud long before now. Because now he's truly delusional in his thinking and even thinks after we divorce I HAVE TO let him come over to my home!

Or it could just be a sign he's starting to realize that along with HIS grasp for freedom, you've been given that option too? He might want to weazle his way back in without having to admit any wrongdoing or even giving up his new freedoms.

heart full of tears,

This is the best time to do plan A ... you have no expectation but fix whatever you have let it go in M. IMVHO, you should seek to have fun once in a while ... it doesn't make you a bad mom to have fun. They have a great mom for 6 days and let the one day a week just for you. Find activity or get someone to watch your kids for that day/time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> make it fun for them too. The option is not pretty, a burnt out mom.

When you could face him with out anger ... with out baggage and walk away from this M ... you are ready and healed.

I know you would be fine w/o him but your life would be better if somehow there ia a miracle to make your M patched up. However you owe it to yourself and to your kids to try plan A and see where it would lead you.

Remember the basic concept of MB, in-love could be recreated ... as long as the other party willing to receive your 4 gifts of love.

-rh-

Thank you everyone. I do plan on getting out and having more fun. And, I have been able to present a calm self to my husband. His anger is still very much there, and he said he would like to expedite a divorce. He and his girlfriend are 'just friends' right now and they will continue their relationship after the divorce. There is NO way he wants to try at the marriage (even though his reasons for out are that we 'drifted apart'). He won't even consider going to couple counseling with me to be better parents for our kids. He said he would do that alone. He has totally pushed me out and I'm OK with that. He has turned into a monster and I don't feel like being around him like this. He is too unpredictable and I'm the cause for everything bad. I think he is going to write the end of this chapter, and it's going to be divorce very soon.

Yes,

we are at fault eh, ws leaves and blames us for everything well it takes two, but you need to work on your self and make you happy reqardless of what happens to your marriage, hope for the best but plan for the titianic. Go now to a lawyer for advice and start getting ready, it does not mean you filed, I would if you live in a at fault state hire a PI to get the goods on him to use for money purposes, you have to think of your kids first, if he is leaving you for another woman they will want to screw you so they have the good life. Hope for love but prepare for war. Keep working on you.

good luck

Toyman
Divorce final June 30th, wife actually calling me and such, amazing I have moved on and now I see her hesitate. I planned A thru the whole mess and never yelled or was mean to her. I am amazed myself but I am at peace and I did everything by the book and it did not work but I hope it works for others out there. I do believe I am a much better and happy person. Also I am ripped from all the working out at the gym to relieve my stress so at least I am looking good