hello all, I just wanted to post about betrayed having to work so hard in all this. <BR>Some one mentioned the fact that the betrayed set up the situatin for the affair.<P>I dont think this is true to an extent. Affairs should happen no matter what, But they do cause somthing is missing in a marriage. One may not show enough effection ar what ever. This does not justify having an affair. the person Should have tried communicating better, or just got a D, before it happened.<P>I personally have never done anything like this and dont under stand how it happpens.<P>My W wouldnt try cause, she said I did not make her happy before, and she couldnt see how I could now. I think this is selfish, of her. She wouldnt try then either, wouldnt communicate, I did not know what i was doing to make her have an affair. I knew we argued, but the things that mede her unhaappy , I was blind to. <P>this may not even make sense, Hard to put in words.<P>Sorry <P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

My H is the worlds lousiest communicator. When he left I asked "Why didn't you tell me you felt this way??" It would have stopped so many problems. If he had only talked to me, things wouldn't have turned out this way.

Mitzi- this is easy for me to say now too, Then I think I would have just laughed if she said the things that made her unhappy. I think when couples get used to each others ways, the communication thing goes out the door. Its easer for people to have affairs then to meat with reaility, and their marriage problems.<P>After the affair the problem are still there and even more were added<P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

I'm sorry to be such a downer right now. As you know, I'm not in the greatest mood. <BR>That's why communication is so important. My H not only doesn't communicate well with me, he doesn't communicate well with anyone.

Mitzi and Brownphd,<P>According to Dr. Harley's emotional needs, what is your primary emotional need? Mine is communication and my Husband's is affection. His affair began because I withdrew affection, delibertly, because he was not meeting my primary needs. I did not know that his primary need was affection until after the affair. Brownphd... what do you think that your wife's primary emotional need is? If she says that you are not making her happy can she tell you what need is not being met?

I have asked her that question, asked her to do the questionair. She wouldnt, and never could answer the question either.<P>I do know that she is very codependant. I'm not even sure she know what she needs ather than a man in her life at all times.<BR><P>------------------<BR>brownphdt<P>

Hi Brownphd -<P>First, I want to say I am sorry for what has gone on with you and your wife the past week.....haven't been around that much and just glanced through your last thread.<P>I hope that she realizes the mistake with her rushed decision and that she discovers her true place is to be going through her life with you and the kids. I guess that she just has to experience more on her own to learn the grass is not greener......<P>Now - onto this topic.....<P>I understand completely what you are saying.....but I also realize that all circumstances are different. In your case, as in mine - our spouses did not communicate their feelings effectively enough for us to know what their concerns, anger, hurt, etc. were about and what they needed from us. I am sure that communication was/is the key in most - if not all - situations of infidelity. <P>That is two-sided though!! It takes two people to communicate effectively!! Although, our spouses didn't spell it out for us.....did we listen and observe the situation with enough desire to understand? Did we make their unhappiness a real concern or did we brush it off as them just being mean or crabby? Or them just wanting to put us down or blame us for everything?<P>I don't know.....I have looked back and think that I did a pretty good job at trying to get my H to open up and talk to me.....he chose not to!! Was that my fault, could I have done more? Could I have found another way to get through?<P>I will never know! I did my best - I have no regrets about that. What matters now is how I have learned to communicate as effectively as I can. This does not work if the other person doesn't open up!!! So even though I have learned and improved my own conversation skills....this could happen again because the other person might not want to talk.<P>Blame does not really have a place here, after a while......if at all.<P>The fact is - this is the point you're at.....where do you go from here?<P>That's what I think we should all be focusing on!! Learn about your own behavior from looking at the past, but learn and apply new and better behavior in the present and future.<P>Like I said, all situations are different. Some have betrayeds with heavy contributions to the problems and some don't. Some have factors such as illness, addictions like alcohol, drugs, sex, etc., I could go on and on.....<P>The bottom line is to learn from looking at the whole picture and change what you can within yourself to make you better!!<P>Forget about blame.....nobody's perfect and even if someone had nothing but devotion to the straying spouse.....it happened for a reason. The ultimate goal would be to discover the whys of the betrayer's mind and to figure out the "what now?'s"<P>So, I'm sure that you have looked back and seen instances where you might have responded differently or asked a question or two.....hindsight can make you aware of things. The important thing is to include the things that you have learned since into your current and future behavior and thoughts. Some people need to be drawn out to express their feelings clearly.....it helps if we learn how to do that as best we can.<P>OK, enough prattling!!!! LOL!!<P>You've grown, Brown - you keep trying to communicate as honestly and lovingly as possible and you will do well.<P>Put the past in the past and just keep what you have learned about relationships in the present.<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>PS - HAPPY NEW YEAR

Hey.....you were posting as I was writing my novel!!! LOL!!!<P>Don't try to make sense of anything she is saying or doing since this affair business, brown!!!! YOU KNOW that she has no clue what she's doing or saying!!<P>Nothing makes sense and that is the perfect example of how much fantasy is involved here......<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Hi again,<P>Two things that I want to mention:<P>1. It baffles me when spouses don't want to reveal things that could help make a marriage work. Why do so many wayward spouses say "I don't believe in counseling" or "I don't want to do the questionairres that might help us during our time of trouble." Are they affraid of what they might learn about themselves?<P>2. Before my husband's affiar I screamed, ranted, raved and begged him (LOVEBUSTING for sure) to see that our marriage was "going down" and that we still had time to save it. He ignored me. It wasn't until after I discovered his affair and when he started going to counseling(two to three weeks after discovery) did he figure out why he had the affair in the first place. He never knew he was "unhappy" until the threat of an ending marriage was on the horizon. How out of touch with your feelings could you be?

I wrote about this on the "other" thread, but I don't think it's the betrayed that will fight so hard, nor should it be... I think that ultimately it is the <B>stronger</B> spouse, no matter which cheated, that will fight like tooth and nail to save the marriage. <P>As far as counseling... after my H cheated many years ago, I was the stronger one, and dragged his butt back home and loved him back into the marriage. I had three little kids to think about. Over the last several years, I begged, pleaded and prodded my H to go to counseling because I could see things were really, really bad and I was afraid for us. I <B>made the choice</B> to have an affair, and I can only say that now, after dealing with a lot of this in counseling, and it was an unfortunate <B>wake up call</B> for my H and me. My H still won't get counseling, and he really needs it, but for now, I am once again the stronger one, so it's up to me to love him back. For months that wasn't okay, because I was so weak and hurt myself, but bottom line is this: I am the stronger one right now. So, I will do this. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

What Sheryl said! <P>Who does the work is who is WILLING AND ABLE to do the work ...<P>As for what brownphd said ... yeah! I agree with you too! I've voiced my disappointment that my husband never talked to me about being so unhappy ... but where I was at that time, I would never have heard him!<P>And Sheba: You got it, girl! I have also realized that there were things my husband said to me that might have told me about his unhappiness had I been in a place to hear him! About the house being a mess, about my never wanting to be physically active, about my not wanting to do anything without him ... lots of little things that, had I not been suffering from depression, I MIGHT have heard - or might have been willing to work on ... Now I am working on all of them - for ME. But is it too late for my actions to affect my marriage? Only time will tell...<P>My take on this has always been: Communication is the key, and as Sheba points out, we have to be "listening" ... and as new_beginning points out, it is likely that ONE of the couple will be more able to take charge of this key than the other. The stronger, the more able, the more willing - whatever - that person is going to have to be the one to find a way to help the other to communicate effectively. Be it by reading every relationship mending book ever written, by engaging the spouse in the "questionnaire" game ... And, pretty much, that person is me and you - and you, and you, and you ...<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>