when I was dating my husband, he had a number of female friends and I didn't think anything of. He said he felt more comfortable with women, particularly since he had negative experiences with boys when he was growing up. <BR>There were a couple times that he tried to wander off with other women at a party or a conference. I told him I was hurt by this behavior, and he seemed to stop even though he said it was "no big deal" and didn't understand because it meant nothing.<P>Well, before I knew how distructive having a friend of the opposite sex was, I agreed to have a female friend of his give each other massages. He said he wasn't attracted to her at all. This went on for awhile, until she started losing weight. I thought there might be something going on but I didn't want to confront my greatest fear and ask them, so I denied it and said nothing.<P>Ends up, he fondled her sexually at least a couple time and he said he would have had intercourse if she hadn't stopped the sexual touching at the time.<P>He has stopped all contact with her. But, he doesn't understand why I've had such a hard time with this since he said it didn't mean anything to him, he doesn't love her, but just wanted a little adventure and a couple thrills. He also says this is just an example of male sexuality and any man in his position would have done the same thing. After all, the parts were just there in front of him.<P>Part of my anger is I feel so stupid and naive and degraded that I was cheated-on right in front of my nose.<P>I'd like advice on how to deal with his arguments about what he did, male sexuality, and is attitude about frivolous sex being OK. My therapist thought he might be a sex addict. <P>I'd appreciate any feedback on this.<P>Paula

I'm not quite clear on the facts...did this "fondling" occur after you were married or before? I think we all know what temptation is, but it is a fact that what separates us from the beasts of the earth is our ability to control our libido. YES...it can be done...through rational thought and through emotional commitment. When infidelity occurs, either the betrayer hasn't thought things through or his commitment level isn't where it should be.<P>Love seems to be the only cure for this disease. Real "LOVE", meaning the act....the act of love to me consists of honesty, trust, unconditional kindness, understanding, caring, and respect among others. It takes interest to begin a relationship, but it takes alot of work to maintain the interest.<P>As far as how to "deal" with his arguments, I would say that you need to clearly restate your boundaries for the relationship...what is acceptable and what isn't. You need to be honest with him and yourself about "how" his actions make you feel. If he respects your feelings he will understand. There may be a need for compromise, so I suggest you look into the POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT here at this site.<P>Good luck to you!<P><P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

Welcome <B>PaulaV</B> to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>The encounter(s) your husaband has had border on an affair more than you might think.<P>Comments like... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>After all, the parts were just there in front of him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... are insulting and demeaning to you. Whether there was physical involvment or not... there is a possible problem here.<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>Whether there was an emotional or physical affair (if not yet... maybe in the future...) There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>Other useful sites to look at include... the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B> I recommend this to anyon suspecting an affair in their relationship.<BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.<P>Know that <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>About the sexuality issue... of course men's perspective is different from a woman's, but if it conflicts with your values and makes you unhappy (what we call here a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>)... that's where discussions must start. Potentially, some joint counseling may be in order! I see you have a therapist... does he?<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Thank you for your replies. I forgot to mention we've been married 17 years. Before we got married he was sexually promiscuous. And, after we married, he was magnitized to other women. He says he wasn't unfaithfully sexually before this. (Except a one-night-stand at a hotel when he was working out of town. And, he said he was very drunk, looking at porn with friends, and didn't have intercourse with her. I found out about this 4 months ago.)<P>I've "felt" like his involvement with OW was an affair or at least bordered on an affair even though he denies it. This has created a lot of conflict between us. I found out about six months ago and we've had a lot of arguing, me crying, and fights about what he did. He finally has acknowledged that what he did hurt me terribly. We went to a marriage counselor and the MC thought it was just a "mistake" but that he should acknowledge my feelings. Maybe it was a mistake, but my H still thinks what he did was OK. It was helpful to read in Surviving an Affair that most betrayers don't think they did anything wrong. Then, my husbands behavior doesn't seem so wierd.<P>Today he said that I was controlling his behavior by keeping him from having friends with other women. I've read a couple books by Harley and I agree with his philosophy that it's very dangerous for my H to have friendships with other women. But, he says that even if it would lead to a little sexual fun, it wouldn't cause any harm. And, I said that it would cause me terrible pain if he got sexual with another woman again. And also, there's a very good chance he could get emotionally attached to the "friend". He insists this could never happen.<P>So, I have two problems here: 1. How do I get over the hurt and pain from my husbands affair. Especially, when it's a border-line affair. Or, do I consider this an out-and-out affair and there's no gray when it comes to this. 2. What do I do about my H's liberal attitude about friendships with other women and possibly having sex with these women? I've stated my boundaries and he doesn't like them. I've read the Policy of Joint Agreement to him he doesn't get it. He thinks as long as he's happy about his behavior with other women, I shouldn't care or should put up with it. I've mentioned a couple of time that he see a therapist and he doesn't think he has a problem and doesn't think it would help even if the therapist thought he had a problem.<P>Thanks for your feedback and letting me vent.<BR>

Welcome Paula !!! sorry for the circumstances that found you here- we've all been there.<BR>May I suggest Pittman's Private Lies and the books that NSR reccomended - beleive you me we aren't agents for the good doctor, just broken, hurt, scared people who saw their marriage disrupted as well as their spouses hurt terribly.<P>anywho- welcome, read, post, and please take care of yourself- you may go ( or be in ) a depressed state that may require medication. I balked at first, but now I know I couldn't do without them.

I don't think your H realizes the consequences of his "beliefs". He sounds very self-centered.<P>It doesn't seem like he respects your feelings either. He needs a wake up call, although what kind I wouldn't be able to say. Try using examples from the cases you read about here. Try using examples from people you know.<P>This philosophy of his is very dangerous. If he wanted to be dangerous, he should never have made a commitment to one person.<P>In response to his statement that he feels like you are keeping him from having female friends...couldn't a compromise be that his friends should be your friends. I mean, if you have direct involvement there, it would at least be easier for you to identify the dangerous behavior and to have some control over the relationship.<P>My prayers go out to you.<P>Peter<P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

How do I get anti-depressants for a case like mine? Can I go to a regular physician, OB/GYN, shrink?<P>

I found that physicians will rarely prescribe them without the referral of a counselor or psychiatrist, however each doctor is different and it doesn't hurt to talk to your physician about it either.<P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

I found that physicians will rarely prescribe them without the referral of a counselor or psychiatrist, however each doctor is different and it doesn't hurt to talk to your physician about it either.<P>Peter<P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

Paula,<P>Your regular doctor (GP or Ob/Gyn) should be able to prescribe them. Just ask.

I understand you wanting anitdepressants however, that may not be the answer. Its true that your GP can prescribe them to you but only on a temporary basis. In order to continue you need to regularly see a psychiatrist. There's a lot of different types of antidepressants and you need to find the one that works with you. I have been on 2 types of antidepressants because the first one had a very negative affect on me. Plus you need to be on it for over a month in order to take affect. I suggest that if you want an antidepressant you need to also see a psychologist at the same time. The medication is only a temporary solution to your mood and will soon lose its affect if you don't seek counseling.

Hi Paula,<P>Sorry you have to be here but glad you found the site. <P>I guess the way I would handle that line of reasoning/arguement would be: "Honey, than I guess it is ok for me to do the same thing?" I would also say "than I guess you do not care if I do the same thing to you?" <P>This always worked with Tony. If I did the crap he did to me to him he would be so livid and out the door in a second. That really made him see how he was being a super jerk from he!!.<P>Second I just got placed on Paxil by my OB/GYN. Went in for the yearly and said oh by the way I am so depressed due to Tony's affairs. Said that St. Johns was not working and please help. Got Paxil that day. I can not at least function at work without breaking into tears at a drop of a hat. (Thank the maker my office is off the beaten path)<P>Please hang in there. Take it one day at a time. Also remember that you are worthy of love and devotion and stick to your guns if it hurts you than let him know to stop it.

Thanks for your replies!<P>The OB/GYN is supposed to call today about anti-depressants. So, that might help. I've been able to function OK, although when the s*** first hit the fan, I wasn't coping too well. I'm doing OK, thanks to my frequent sessions with my therapist.<P>I tried taking the tactic of "How would you like it if I had sex with OM!" His response was, "Go ahead, I wouldn't mind." I'm not sure if he was calling my bluff and never thought I would go through with it. But, it sure took me back the first time. Since then, I've said I want a H that doesn't want me to have sex with OM. <P>I've thought of separating and/or divorcing him hundreds of times. But, I can't seem to do it. I even put a deposit on an apartment and he found out. He said he didn't want me to leave him, blah, blah, blah. And, I gave in. Actually, the whole idea is very scary to me and it sounds so lonely. But, is it better than being in a crazy situation. Or am I crazy to stay.