A week ago I posted a question asking for advice about leaving my W. I was feeling frustrated about her not working as hard on our marriage as I was, despite her being the one that did the betraying. My advice that day was to hang on, especially since she was still there and at least verbally stating that she wanted to at least try. Well I was going to follow that advice, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that she would never re-gain those "In-Love" feelings if she really didn't want to be there, she has stated on more than one occasion that she is there because she feels that she "owes" it to me, rather than because she loves me and really wanted to be with me and regain those old feelings. Well I got really frustrated all over again and told her that it would be her and not me that had to leave by the end of January. Well after I got over my frustration and calmed down, I really thought that I had made a mistake by asking her to leave, but her reaction to my request has made me feel as though maybe my request was the right thing to do. She has shown no desire to "fight" for her marriage, she has been out looking for an apartment with no apparent desire to try to continue working on things. Now I'm wondering if it isn't best to just let her go, why try to keep someone with you that doesn't want to be there. She says that things have gotten much better between us and that she has regained some of the feelings that she once had for me, yet she still goes back and forth about whether she wants to be with me or not. She has stated that it bothers her that I am trying so hard to show her how much I love her and she doesn't feel the way that I do, she asks the question "why can't I have those "In-Love" feelings for him?" I told her that I didn't expect it to happen overnight, the feelings didn't die overnight, but I can't bring myself to ask her to stay. I don't know if it's my pride, which since discovering her affair, I have very little of left, or is it the feeling that she really does not want to be here with me? It doesn't make matters any better when she says that one of the reasons she hasn't gone is because she doesn't want to hurt me anymore...........Hell, I don't want you to be with me out of fear of hurting me!!<BR>I really feel that her love for me is long gone and that because of our long history together and our kids, she is trying to stick it out, but should someone have to stick it out because of those reasons, she is entitled to be happy, and maybe she can find happiness elsewhere. I truly love this woman, always have, maybe when you love someone, sometimes you have to let them go.<P>I don't know anymore, anybody out there have any ideas? Do I continue to fight to keep the woman that I love, or do I out of love for this woman, let her go?

Hi FA -<P>First, take some deeeeeeeeep breaths here!!! You and your wife are emotional wrecks and are very tired and frustrated!! There are bound to be these kind of feelings. None of them are unusual for this infidelity process!<P>From reading your profile and what you've written on this thread, it sounds like you both have some self-reflection about your role in the marriage problems to do and address.....Have you done that? Do you both know what needs to be changed about the marriage from before?<P>Forget about these "in love" feelings for now....they are not attached to a switch and quite frankly, it is my belief that they are all an illusion only felt at the start of a relationship when our minds go ga-ga!!!!!<P>LOVE is there between you......it will come back to the forefront only when you both relax the tensions, get rid of the resentments and start treating each other with love and respect rather than expectations and reacting off one another!!!<P>You've been here awhile....do you think that you have a good grasp on what the Infidelity process is? Do you fully understand the steps?<P>Pride has no place in a true relationship.....Not foolish or stubborn pride anyway!!!! Pride would be when you both give your all to learning new and constructive ways to bettering your treatment of each other....Pride is when you have been able to put your partners actions or words in your head with love enough to ask WHY she/he might be feeling this way.....<P>It is not a good pride that tells you to stop "letting" this or "giving into" that!!! Foolish pride kills more than it protects!!!!<P>I think your wife is suffering....she is also in pain, so keep that in mind. Most of it at this point is probably from guilt and shame.....<P>She is scared of what she felt before and if she will want to do it again. She is scared of a marriage that she was apparently unhappy in and that it can't change into a good and happy one. <P>She is confused.......that she could have done what she did. Confused about the feelings she experienced with OM and where they went to that they're not there for you. She is not sure that they will come back.....<P>She doesn't understand that those "in loves" are fantasy.....brought on by newness and excitement building in the imagination!!! They are what are not real!!!! The only thing she needs to be "real" is some new positiveness in your marriage!!! Then she will feel that rejuvenation and excitement of a new start!!!<P>You know some of what I have said because you have read up on MB - right?<P>Feelings won't just come back without a kick up of the communication, caring and fun in your marriage!!!! How have you changed your communicating and activities? Have you revamped your contribution to the relationship with some vitality by meeting needs? What about the Love Busting? Did you get rid of those?<P>Have you both taken a look at this MB stuff? Is she open to it? Hope is what she needs....some reassurances and examples of how a marriage can not only survive this......but can end up being so much better.<P>What do you think? I hope that I have helped stir some ideas about what to proceed with.....<P>BIG HUGS, PRAYERS AND STRENGTH,<P>Sheba

Sheba<P>Yes I have been here awhile and yes I know about the MB principles and the infidelity process, but I guess I am guilty of letting frustration and impatience get the best of me. When I allow that to happen, my mind just gets revved up, I get to thinking "why can't she just let go and allow herself to feel the love that I have for her and let herself love me like that". It's frustrating to know that the OM never really cared for her and she felt the way that she did, while I love her deeply and she hasn't been able, up to now at least, feel that same deep love for me that I have for her. <P>As far as her fear of changing an unhappy marriage into a happy one, I have the same fear. I am sure she has the fear of will I go back to the same old behaviors which destroyed much of her love, but I too have fears of her going back to her old behaviors, but I think I am more willing to pour my heart and soul into making our marriage better.<P>As far as the "in-love" feelings based upon the newness and excitement built in the imagination, I think she realizes that the intense feelings were based on the newness, but I don't know if she realizes that those feelings of being "in-love" were a fantasy. She says that much of what she felt with OM was fantasy, but that some of it wasn't, and I really don't know which feelings were which. I really do, despite some of the things that the OM has done and said since discovery that proves otherwise, believe that my W is still in the fantasy that the OM really was "into" her. He has said and done some really F@#$ed up things.<P>As far as revamping our interactions and communications, that is going fine, it's just that I do get frustrated and impatient, which also leads me to wonder whether she really wants to be with me. But that is why I post here, I usually get grounded quickly by someone here. Thanx

Geez, I was right with you up until you mentioned your W doesn't seem to want to try. My case was exactly the same except for that. My W really wanted it to work as much as I did...needless to say, that helped. But, my advice (if YOU want it to work) is to not give up by any means. This is hard because this means you must give her all the love you would if the situation was ideal. My belief is that Love--the ACT, not the words--is always the answer and for a spouse who wants it to work, there has to be a submission, if you will, to your spouse. You have to be willing to show her what she will gain by staying and what she will forfeit by leaving. In short, despite her actions, you have to be the best damn husband, friend and lover she will ever know. But it is all up to you. You can't do anything to change her, but you can give her every reason to stay.<P>That's my opinion<P>Peter<P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

Sheba, almost forgot about the resentment issue. This one may be the hardest one of all. I admit that I struggle with this daily, almost every waking hour do I struggle with this. I try to let go of the pain of the affair and of the lies and deceptions, but I must admit that the lies and deceptions are extremely hard to let go of. I haven't spoken to my W about her resentment, but I am sure that she too is dealing with feelings of resentment towards me and the verbal and emotional abuse that she has had to endure from me. I have assured her that I am changing the way I interact with her and I hope that she sees it, whether she "trust" the change, I don't know, I can only prove to her that it will be different.

FA,<P>There was a time in September/October of this year when I became extreamly frustrated with my wife's attitude about our marriage. I too felt like I was doing all the work and my wife was just staying to avoid hurting me or the kids. I was to the point where I was ready to move out myself if she didn't. What helped me get through this was coming to the realization that I did not really want her to go and I did not really want to go. I also started thinking about our relationship in terms of how would I want to treat my wife if I knew one of us were to die the next day. This gave me some incentive to overlook or try to understand some of my wifes attitudes at the time. I also realized that if my wife stayed or left, I wanted to stay. If she wanted to leave, then she could, but I was not going to encourage or help her to leave. <P>Unfortunately I found out in December that she had in fact started seeing the other man during that period and was actually looking for ways to get me or her to move out so she could pursue her relationship with other man again. This realization makes it tough for me to get back the understanding and acceptance I had back in Sep/Oct, but my goal is to try to get it back again. <P>I still pretty frustated as wife is not too interested in intimacy with me right now, so somehow I need to get over this again.<P>Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject.<P>Good luck to you.

TimJ<P>Like you my marriage really took a turn for the worse once my W started her adulterous relationship. It was a very pretty marriage prior to that, but it became almost unbearable once the adultery started. The thing about it is that early after my discovery, she had the nerve to say that she didn't think that her other relationship had any effect on our marriage, as if all the lying and deceiving wouldn't have an effect. The funny thing is that during this time, and without knowing about her "other life", things had gotten so bad that I used to tell her on a number of occasions that she was putting her family, particularly me, at the bottom of her list of priorities and that EVERYTHING that she does has an effect on not only me, but everyone in the home, and she just didn't get it, and even though things have gotten a little better, I still don't think she gets it.<P>As a matter of fact Tim, reading your post and thinking about my own situation reminds me of something another woman once told me........."Women are the most deceptive and selfish beings on this earth", yes, this is coming from another woman.

FA,<P>Not sure it's just women that can be selfish and deceptive, and I hope they all aren't that way. Have a feeling that women or men for that matter that get caught up in affairs come across that way. I suppose they would have to or they would'nt be having an affair. I have to claim some selfishness and deception on my part to though. Did some selfish things my self during our marriage and was also pretty deceptive about it. Used to drink quit a bit and was pretty good at hiding it. Our marriage has never been that great over it's 13 year span. Don't get me wrong, we have had alot of good times, two great kids, etc. I was never all that happy in our marriage either, but I never went out and had an affair. What is most frustrating to me is that my wife continues to hold the things I did to her during the past 15 years we have known each other against me. I'm at least trying to get over her lastest year long affair and pretty much forgot the one she had five years agoe (she only told me about it last August). I have been really motivated to try and have a great marriage. What she doesn't get is that I was just as unhappy as she was in the marriage, but I never had an affair. <P>My wife used to down play her affair to. She even used to encourage me to have one myself and accused me of being a wimp because I didn't. I think this was mostly happening because she thought the two of them really had something going and she still had strong feelings for him. She did finally come around and admit that what they did was wrong. This occurred after she finally realized that the other guy was just in it for the sex. <P>What is most frustrating know is that she is going back to school to get her master degree and still plans to keep her full time job, so needless to say we won't be spending much time together. Not sure I want to stay married to someone that can't find time to work on the marriage. Oh well, I'll see what happens.<P>Anyway, I could ramble on all days about my woes, but that's probably enough. Saw someone recommend the book "How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together" by Susan Page that just came in the mail today. Hopefully it will give me some motivation to keep on trying despite what I see my wife doing.<P>Good luck to you and have a good weekend.<P>Tim

TimJ<P>First let me clarify something, I made a mistake on the last post, the second sentence should have said, "wasn't a pretty marriage". I too was not happy, but having an affair never crossed my mind, making my marriage better was what I wanted to do, and tried to talk to my wife about. In regards to a woman being selfish, yes all betrayers are very selfish, but it seems to me that alot of the women on this board fell for married men who had no intention of ever leaving their wives and was in the relationshop just for the sex, yet it was their own selfishness that didn't allow them to see what was going on right in front of their eyes, whatever need they had was so great that they believed everything this OM had to say, while totally ignoring their spouses. At least your W realized that the OM was just in it for sex, mine still believes that this man cared/cares for her, doesn't matter that he called her an "opportunity that presented itself" or insinuated that she was a "whore", and that really makes me think about just how much she really wants to be with me, hell if I said those things, she would be outta here in a second.<P>My wife to is going back to school, while I am supportive of this, as I have always been, but I too am worried about what this is going to do with our recovery. Just seems like this is something else that will be placed in the way of dealing with the REAL issues in our relationship, as my wife is extremely good at avoiding problems or issues.<P>Oh well, I've rambled on myself, you have a good weekend too, and good luck.

FA,<P>I better clarify something myself, not sure it matters though. My wife did think the other man loved her and she thought she loved him. About all they had going on was sex and some conversation, but at the end all he was interested anymore was the sex. She was hoping for more out of the relationship. When she finally caught him with another woman when she finally woke up and realized what their relationship was all about and what an [censored] this guy really was. Imagine how it must feel to be having an affair and then have the guy your having an affair with have an affair with someelse, by the way the guy was apparently engaged at the time my wife started having an affair with him, but his fiancee broke up with him when she found out about his affair with my wife. His marriage also ended because he had an affair at that time. This guy is really something and he's a psycologist. I think it hurt her to come to this realization. Being used by someone is not a fun thing. Any chance that might be why your wife is still holding on to her feelings for the other man?<P>In my wife's case, I guess you could call what she did selfish. I can however understand that she did feel unloved in our marriage. Having an affair with the guy was her way of trying to find love. Kind of sad when you think about it. I can imagine that it was fun and exciting in the beginning, but I do see now (at least I hope I do) alot of remorse on her part. <P>As far as the school goes, I do support it, was hoping that she would quit her job and go to school full time and find a better job when she got out. The problem I have is she plans to keep her job where she works evenings and everyother weekend and go to school part time. She will be going to school 60 miles away twice a week. Her work alone caused us problems before (that's where she met the other man) and now I will have to deal with her being gone to school and doing homework when she is home.<P>Oh well life is a challange and I'm rambling again.

TimJ<P>I don't think that my W feels used, I really think that she bought into everything that he has ever told her and really believes that he really cared for her, hell, one of the emails she sent him stated that there would never be love like the love that he was giving her, and this was AFTER he ended his seperation from his wife and went back home, this was after he made it clear that he loved his wife and that things were getting better in his own home, this was after he told my W that he was having sex more with his W, she still felt that this man loved her, or at least cared deeply, and despite his actions and things he has said my discovery, I honestly believe that she still feels that he has/have these feelings, according to her, he was the greatest man to walk the earth since Jesus.<P>You are lucky in seeing remorse. My wife says she is remorseful, but I have not seen this for myself. She lost alot of weight after I found out, but I think that was more due to being caught and missing him then it did for being sorry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would seem to me that if someone was remorseful about hurting a loved one, they would go out of their way to make it up to them, or at least try to, that has not gone on here. I'm not saying that she hasn't made any changes, but she hasn't really done anything to make me feel like she really loves me the way she says she does.<P>I too can see how there were times that she may have felt unloved in our marriage, but I think deep down she knew that I did, and she knew why I always didn't show it, Hell, I told her enough, and yes it is sad that one feels that they have to go look for love elsewhere, but I guess what hurts me is that if she would have just looked for the love here and told me how she was feeling, she would have gotten that love..........AT HOME.