W is going to see OM tomorrow for the first time. They met each other on the Internet at a time when our marriage was not going very well (understatement). W's affair has been building up over the last month and a half, after she lost faith in our marriage.<P>I've been in Plan A, from just before Xmas, when I learned that W was serious about leaving and later found out about the impending affair.<P>I love my wife unconditional, and I want our marriage to work out. I didn't know how before this happened, but I'm a fast learner and since then I've been thinking long and hard about how to improve myself and our love for each other. Fortunately I found this site, which is the most wonderful place I've seen, so full of people who have the capacity to care and give excellent advice even in their agony and hurt. Sucking the site dry of information, helped since it's the only approach I've come across that makes sense to me, and gives me hope that I can be happy with myself and hopefully rebuild my marriage into a better and stronger one.<P>I have as I said been Plan Aing for about 3 weeks, and I've already seen much progress. I think I've gotten W back to "conflict" where she was in "withdrawal" however she still have to make her mind up about the OM. She's telling me that she's really screwed up her life by getting into this mess and wish that she hadn't, however, she's still determined to meet this guy, who comes to town for a couple of days to meet W.<P>W knows that a relationship with this guy is next to impossible, for various reasons they can't stay together (at least not in the forseable future), and I think that she will come around to our marriage, but at the moment she's vacillating between the two of us, maybe just giving me hope until she can act out her fantasy, leaving me out to dry hurting and not able to think straight anymore.<P>I've agreed to let her see OM, what other choice do I have And I hope and pray that she will do the right thing and bring an end to this affair, and hopefully not be so guiltridden afterwords that she will not be able to look me in the eyes again.<P>I'm sorry I ramble but I just can't seem to think straight at the moment and I just don't know how to survive mentally and emotionally for the next couple of days. I could really use some encouraging thoughts and prayers to help me maintain my sanity.<P>

Welcome <B>SadMan</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>I don't believe you've been formally welcomed before... If you have use this as just an additioal reference.<P>You posting says you've sucked everything out of this site... that is excellent!<P>Then you know the people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! I'm glad you started on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>! Stick to it... Have you seen my post on it?...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A>?<P>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>I think you've seen already some of the examples of support we give... That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>We can give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>Ask for those prayers, they mean a lot.<P>I'll pray for you today! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 11, 2000).]

Oh Wow! She is telling you she is wishing she hadn't got into this mess? Well, putting myself in her place, I think that would be her asking you to stop her! Don't let her go. Grab hold of her and tell her you love her and want things to go well. Get her into the car and If possible take her away for a couple nights somewhere nice and private and show her your love. spontaneity is ALWAYS exciting! Give her attention and a fantasy come true... but with YOU! I wish that I had had the option of stopping my affair before it had started. If H had stopped me from going (Had he known) I and H wouldn't be in this painful mess now! Just an idea... but I hate to see her getting into something like this.... Way too painful for everyone involved.....

SadMan:<P>I agree with Lacee's approach. You don't want to be seen as "letting" her go. You should let her know that you don't approve of the meeting (stop short of demands). Instead, ask if she'd prefer to do something else. I'd pop out tickets to Hawaii if I had to, but try to get her to agree to do something with you.<P>If she won't (the likely thing), you're perfectly within your plan A "rights" to let her know that her going hurts you. But no demands to stay---she's got to make her own decision.

Don't let her go. Get both of you into counseling right away. If you employer has an Employee Assistance Program, call them right now. Don't be too proud to ask for some professional help. Once she makes that step with the OM , it will never be the same again between you two. When fantasy becomes reality with this net crap it usually is a disappointment but the damage has been done of course. Been there and done that and believe me DON"T LET HER GO! Get your appointment for tomorrow. If you tell them what is going on I think they will accomadate you. When I called for help , it was almost like they said 'do you want to be seen today?" Good luck.

Thanks for all the replies, unfortunately it's not possible for me to take her away even for a couple of nights, without doing major LB. Basically W is a very decent person who doesn't want to break promises, however I hope that we've accomplished a break-through last night. As we discussed possible futures and I think that she really sees that the best future is staying married, both to ourselves and our kids. So I have confidence that she will commit herself to the marriage just as I've done. But she has to break with OM in a orderly fashion, she knows it will hurt both her and OM, but I think that her self respect would suffer greatly if she just dumped him like used garbage. But I guess I have to trust her (I hope I can) on this one, though it still hurts. I just pray to God that she'll do the right thing and doesn't let herself be sucked deeper into this mess. But I have confidence in her to ultimately make the right choice, it's not going to be easy for anybody and I think that right now we're both hurting. I worry because I'm still insecure and afraid of losing her (and the kids), W because she'll have to break promises and not hurting OM too much.<P>But I guess some level of trust have to be rebuilt, and I'm giving her this chance of proving that she's trustworthy and I guess I'll be able to tell if anything more is going on. On the other hand I've made it clear that in order to protect myself from further hurt, we will have to separate (read Plan B) if contact between OM and W doesn't cease after his visit in town (by end of week) and a commitment is made to at least try to rebuild our marriage. I don't want to do this, but if contact persists I see no other alternative right now, I would be too crushed and hurt to be able to continue Plan A.<P>I will hopefully have happy news later -- Gee, I really hope I do

NeverAgain,<P>We are already in the middle of counselling and have the next scheduled appointment start of next week.<P>Lacee & K,<P>At this point I have to let her go and hope for the best, hope that she's not hoodwinking me, when she's telling me that she will have to break with this guy, but do it the "gentle" way.<P>This whole thing just sucks, but there is hope as well, and I *really* hope that I'm not deluding myself or setting myself up for an enormous *plonk*, if all my trust & hope are shattered on the ground.

Best of luck to you. I really hope that it doesn't cause you anymore pain. Like you have read in a lot of these posts, the best way to break it off with someone is NO CONTACT. When you go in person, too many emotions get in the way of reason. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Hang in there.... and keep us updated...

Now see, Sadman, this is one of those times when I would skip the MB approach and LB all over the ding-dong place... and I mean that I <B>would not</B> let her go... this is their first visit? Geez... are you ready to deal with STD's, the emotional ties a woman feels with a man she sleeps with... all that jazz???<P>I love K's idea of getting some tickets to Hawaii or something. This is your W and she hasn't met this guy face to face yet... I think you have been wonderful to do the ol' Plan A up till now, but this is where the Plan fails you. <P>I'll be praying, and thinking about you... I hope your W changes her mind... you are a <B>very</B> strong man. I commend you for that!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

NB, I can't stop it anymore, even as I write this W is with OM somewhere in town <P>I pray that my trust in her is not misguided, though I'm beginning to doubt more and more, and my insides are in a big f*cking knot, but I have to be here for the kids who are literally crawling over me as I write this. I'm lucky though that they are both too young to know what's going on.<P>I'm sorry I have to go take care of the kids, be back later.

Sadman,<P>You are a saint! That's all I have to say...<P>Best wishes to you and your W, and I hope she doesn't let you down either...<P>Now go play with your kids <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

NB, I'm not strong nor a saint, but hell, I'll take any compliment at the moment <P>I'm not a saint if I were this situation probably never would have started. We weren't managing our marriage very well and often miscommunicating, which led to depressions for W and angry outbursts from me. Just before I discovered the Ws affair, we were talking about divorce/separation in earnest, which was an eye opener for me and where I basically "re-discovered" the wife I was about to lose, and started "re-building" myself into my new and improved self, which wasn't all that hard, since I've never stopped loving my W, I just lost sight of the purpose of staying married. W on the other hand had lost hope, and I had to give it back to her before all was lost... Which is another reason that I couldn't stop her -- I would have too much to lose. At that point I wasn't sure I could win a stand-up fight againt OM... Now I'm not so sure, I think I at least have her seriously considering to continue the marriage. Hopefully without damaging too many feelings on the way back.<P>I try though to be strong, for the sake of the Kids and our marriage and of cause my love for my wife. But I think that LBs at this moment whether justified or not would only put me back to square one! I might lose a battle, but I plan to win the war, so to speak, and just hope that I don't end up with a pyhrrus victory where I no longer care for my W.<P>

Sad Man,<P>I hope and pray the very best for you in this situation. Maybe when she meets this OM he won't be what she expected. Who knows. Too bad she is still willing to risk what she has with you and the kids. She not thinking too straight right now. Keep giving her the love you have. But I do agree with some of the others, I wouldn't have let her go, but I guess you know more of what you and she are doing in this matter. <P>You do sound like a wonderful person and father. The children are lucky to have you.<BR>Great fathers are hard to come by. Hang in there. And I will light a candle for you.

I am definately in a very similar situation except that once I discovered the fling, my H left. If he would have stayed it would have been so much easier to work on Plan A. We had also been talking about separating and then I realized that I wanted him to be here. I tried so hard to prove that I wanted and loved him. Now I'm trying to do that from a distance. It's hard but I don't think it's impossible. I notice little things but it's still new. <BR>Hang in there if you love her. You'll know when you've had enough. I'd let my H move home in a heartbeat if he's only say he wanted to.

As tempting as it may be, it's IMPOSSIBLE to stop an affair with a threat (selfish demand). <P>And one of the things that's very tough about learning marriagebuilder skills during an affair is how to deal with the affair without lovebusters---you probably had a hard time unloading the dishwasher without lovebusters before. But---the good news is that if you learn these behaviors now, they'll be with you for the rest of your life. <P>SadMan---I'll advise you to hope for the best, but expect the worse. Expect your wife to have lots of passionate sex, and come back looking like a coke addict who just got a fix. Your job is to not react to that with lovebusters---you can certainly state your disappointment if you need to, but refrain from lovebusters. <P>And spending time with the kids is both very theraputic for you, and very attractive to your wife (although she doesn't realize it). That's a huge advantage you hold over the OM, Dad...<P>God bless.

K,<BR>I will not make threats or other LB right now, though I'm very tempted, but I feel that they will only backfire. Though I've done one thing that could be perceived as a threat or demand, that is that I asked her to either commit to rebuilding the marriage or at least wave goodbye to her "friend", or I would have to separate myself from her, in order to protect myself (plan B) -- I do not consider this a threat since I know that if she doesn't stop contact with this guy I will not be able to refrain from LBing left and right.<P>She might consider it a threat since she's somewhat afraid of living alone, and she can't live with OM, for a lot of reasons, and OM are unable to move here. At least I have that going for me.<P>And yes I actually enjoy being with the kids, and I try to be as good a dad as possible to them.<P>Dev2,<BR>Thanks for your very kind words, both here and in the "Question for the men" thread. I will continue to love her, as she's the light of my life, I hope the candle and all our prayers are enough to prevent her from doing wrong. I sincerely hope that you will come to terms with your H on the issue of your daughters grades, one way or another.<P>Mitzi,<BR>I feel for you, it's never easy to wake up and find that your marriage is in lethal jeopardy, and have very little time to try to reorganize and get the family back together. Do you have kids? If so, they might be the excuse to see your H regularly and pour doses of plan A all over him, otherwise find some excuse to regularly bump into his life and deposit good vibes and give him a chance to see you (maybe) not as the spouse but as his friend or even best friend. Do things as friends and he might suddenly discover the new and improved you and want more...<P>Everybody thanks for the wonderful support, I don't think that I could spend my evening in better company, now that the kids are asleep and Ws not around. Yes I live GMT-1 (will not be more specific at the moment).<P>

Wow Sadman, you are allot stronger then you give yourself credit for. It sounds like you are handling this nicely. I do hope your W comes around and wants to work on your marriage, but in the mean time, work on you. Take this time to learn about yourself. I think you will see what I do, a very stong man who wants to save his marriage very much. I wish you all the luck.<P>------------------<BR>Lots of love,<BR>Viki

Yes, Sadman I do have kids. 3 to be exact. I see H on weekends and try not to LB. Of course it doesn't always work, but maybe given time the pieces will all fall together. You are definately in my prayers. You sound so strong. Show your W the changes in you and just maybe she will wake up.

Well my worst fears were confirmed, W went out with OM and stayed late (until around midnight), though when she came home she wasn't behaving like a coke addict like K predicted, instead she instantly admitted that she screwed things up royally, by not being strong enough to resist him.<P>Yes, they did have sex, and I got home a wife in tears, who had not met her prince charming, but an OM out looking to get laid. Naturally she was in tears and we had a good long talk, and I think that I've now got the commitment from her on rebuilding our marriage, though I wouldn't take the commitment now, since she was in no emotional state to do that, I guess I could have had any commitment in that moment, but that wouldn't be right to either of us.<P>Tomorrow we are both going to OM's Hotel and tell him that there will be no further contact between him an W in this life.<P>Curiously W asked me to pull the plugs on all phones and change her email address, which I'm happy to do, as well as bloking Internet access between him and our computer altogether (sometimes it pays off being your own ISP )<P>I hope that now we can continue to get our marriage back together without outside interference, 'cept family

I am so sorry that she ended up being with him. I had a feeling that would happen... I am glad that she does not want contact with him any longer.... and that she is including you in going to tell him that. I hope you are going to be ok when you see him. I am wishing you the best of luck and all the strength you need.... Take care....