At the very least, I think, my H had and "Emotional affair (EA)" with OW2. I say, "I think," NOT because I am uncertain of the emotional connection w/OW2, but because I'm just not sure how you define the "affair" part of the term EA. I feel betrayed, but was I (in terms of infidelity)?<BR>Anyone care to enlighten me? <P>How do you define an EA? <P>What happened in your relationship (or your spouse's) to classify it as an EA? <P>Feel free to reference my post "has infidelity found its way back into my marriage" for the details of the relationship in question.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by facing choices (edited January 17, 2000).]

Don't know how much this helps, as it is only one persons view, but I realized my EA when I was preferring his company to my H's.<BR>I my have had an inkling as to where was headed before that, smiled when I saw an e-mail from him, looked forward to seeing him...but didn't truly hit me until I realized I was having a better time being with him.

FC<BR>How are you?<BR>I read your other post but couldn't reply before.<BR>The hives could be from something you ate or even from nerves (been there). take an antihistamine like ChlorTripolon or Benadryl?<BR>See a doctor if that doesn't help.<P>EAs<BR>IMHO an affair is emotional if the relationship totally excludes the spouse and it makes you feel betrayed. <BR>My H betrayed me emotionally with the bimbo for years before he actually slept with her. It hurt just as much.<BR>She was his "friend". She would call and say she needed to "borrow" my H. She would give him gifts adressed to him. She made him a shirt (the one I ripped up and used to clean the litter box). She made a basket of goodies one Xmas and addressed it to him, not our family.<BR>Every time she needed him to jump he asked how high and left us in the lurk.<BR>He denied that there was anything wrong with this but it hurt me and he knew it so decided to hide it for a few years before he finally slept with her.<BR>You know there is much more to the story. <BR>Basically I was being betrayed emotionally because the friendship excluded me and it felt like betrayal and he didn't care.<BR>I get on this topic and it's hard to stop my fingers from typing.<BR>Hope I answered your question in some way.

My defination is a friendship with a person of the opposite sex which in which you discuss the issues that you should be discussing with your spouse to the exclusion of your spouse. Marital difficulties, what is missing in your life, your unhappiness with spouse, etc. Too often these discussions become the focus of the betrayers life, and from there they begin to meet the need that the spouse whould be addressing. That is what happened to me. He started an internet friendship with another woman, iot progressed to the point where he was telling her of his unhappiness in our relationship, then she told him hers, then they started phoning each other, making plans to see each other, then leave their spouses for one another. The need to have your emotional needs met is strong, and if we as the spouse is not doing a good enough job, the OP steps in and does it. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Facing Choices,<BR> I think an ea is just as damaging to a marraige as a sexual affair. I agree that discussing things you should be discussing w/spouse w/"friend" of the opposite sex could lead to a ea. MY h had a ea going w/a girl he worked with. They discussed their similar backgrounds, relationship problems, family problems, health problems, etc. This lead to my H thinking he was in love w/her. He swears nothing physical happened between them but the emotional connection was very strong. I found a note he had written @ her & his feelings for her. It felt like my heart was shattered in a million pieces. I always felt I was immune to any type of infidelity in my marraige. It's been 15 months since discovery & I promise it does get better. Take care.<P>Keeping the faith, <P>Cassie

Thank you for your replies. They really did shed some important light on this questionable situation I find myself in. <P>MSCHIEF,<BR>Yes, that did help, very much. I do believe that my H was having the same feelings. Obviously, since he was spending time with her, putting on his loving side for her, going out with her, laughing and talking and sharing with her. I know he likes her more than he likes me. They have far more in common. Your reply, really helped. Thanks.<P>Wasstubborn<BR>To answer your question, well, life kinda sucks right now. I’ve been worse, I’ve been better. I’ve been through a lot!<P>The hives are better today. I had a 3-week break out a few weeks ago. Doc said it was stress. I suspect it is back again.<P>Based on your definition, “an affair is emotional if the relationship totally excludes the spouse and it makes you feel betrayed” then my H is having one (or at least he did have one). <BR>My gosh, for her to say “She needed to ‘borrow’ H.” and give him gifts addressed to him, and addressed it to him, not your family is pretty bold! I think I’d feel like she was slapping me in the face. The first OW my H was with invited h and I out to dinner and she sent me a newspaper article about family. I felt betrayed and mocked by that. I can only imagine how you must have felt by the calls and gifts.<P>I think my H is a lot like your H. You said he “denied that there was anything wrong with this but it hurt me and he knew it so decided to hide it for a few years before he finally slept with her.” I think my H thinks it will put me over the edge and that I’ll leave him. So he is lying about the extend of the EA.<P>What is the status of your marriage now?<BR> <BR>Sue,<BR>I like your definition also, “a friendship with a person of the opposite sex which in which you discuss the issues that you should be discussing with your spouse to the exclusion of your spouse. Marital difficulties, what is missing in your life, your unhappiness with spouse, etc.” Unfortunately, I my H fits it. What is the status of your marriage now? Did he leave for her? Did it become physical? Do you believe him?<P>Cassie<BR>Do you believe that it was not physical? Would it matter to you at this point? I know how deep the emotional connection can go, and how hard it can be to break. I think, if my H’s EA turns out to be physical, that I’ll be leaving him. He’s already had one affair (and so have I, I have to admit). And I don’t think we can do this again! It is just so hard.<P><BR>

An improving man's point of view.<P>I agree with the above definitions of EA. Early in our relationship (prior to marriage) I had an EA with a coworker. In defending myself against my partners attack and doubts I claimed it was OK because we were "just friends" meaning nothing physical or sexual was going on. I now realize the damage and hurt that this relationship caused that was carried into our marriage. I also realized that I wanted the EA relationship to become physical/sexual.<P>My wife recently had an affair that started as an EA with a friend of hers from the gym. It progressed from EA to full affair with sexual activity. As a man, I think it would be much easier to forgive and heal from an EZ only vs. an affair that has become sexual. This may not be a man vs. woman view, so much as it shows how important the physical aspects of a relationship are to me vs. my wife's need for the emotional aspects of a relationship. I do think that overall sex in an affair is the point where the affair becomes "real" to a man where a woman sees the emotional affair as just as damaging.

facing choices -- I think I tend to agree with the other definitions of an EA the others have given you. If you are excluded, and if you fell betrayed. . .then you are.<P>In my situation, My W had MANY EA (Internet Affairs). Hers involved from the very beginning, sending very sexually explicit Emails. They all started in "adult chat rooms" and involved my W writing things to these people (and in at least one case that I know of having phone conversations) which involved things which my W had flatly refused to do with me.<P>My situation was unique I think, but still very devastating.<P>You will be in my prayers facing choices.<P>God Bless

FC, <BR>My situation comes to bear form my H having an internet affiar..(read my profile). I am in Plan B, and our divorce is final Feb 10th. I have been very honest with him in that I can not try any reconciling with him until the affair is over. He cannot commit that to me. I think he is very confused, his OW has told him several times it is over (she is married, too), but then calls him and it starts all over. I do know he spent a weekend with her in Memphis the end of November, but not sure if they had a physical relationship. While I do understand the addicton of the affair, I am feeling very lost in all of this. I am not sure I can hold out much longer. If the divorce continues as planned, I guess I have resolved myself to give up Plan B next month and go on with my life. But, one thing I do know...I am a much stronger person, more willing to give a relationship what it needs than ever before. If my H would like to try, I am willing, but I do want a relationship in my life, if not him, then at sometime another. My main concern is my kids. I would love to reunite our family for them, and work on making our marriage the best it can be. But, right now, that is his decision. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

I acknowledged H's EA when I realized these things:<P>1 H spends more time with her than us<P>2 H doesn't talk with me much (less and less the more involved EA became)<P>3 H "bends over backwards" to do anything she ask of him (rarely does anything I ask)<P>4 H denies there is anything wrong with their "friendship" (so why does he lie about seeing her and calling her?)<P>5 H started lying about contact with her<P>6 H threatened me not to "do anything that will damage the friendship" (more concern about keeping her friendship than hurting me)<P><BR>Why doesn't EA register with a man? He doesn't see it as an affair unless sex is involved? I'm refering to this statement from the post by help me.<P>["sex in an affair is the point where the affair becomes "real" to a man where a woman sees the emotional affair as just as damaging."]<P><BR>I suppose a man's needs are mostly physical so he doesn't make the emotional connection like a woman does. <P>I'm still trying to make since of all of this. I don't think I can truely deal with it until I totally understand it.<P>I'm still in the early stages of recovery. I'm still thinking in terms of revenge againest both H and OW. <P><BR>

Keosha --<P>I beg to differ. My W refuses to accept even the concept of an EA. To her it is only a "friendship". Yeah, right!<P>I define an EA as an other sex relationship that takes over the being of one spouse. By "being" I mean they think about that OP, they cannot spend enough time with them, they seem preoccupied. When the spouse talks about getting together with this "friend", her eyes light up. She seems excited, energized almost. They have "inside jokes", laugh at insignificant things. They go out of their way to get together, when you have to go way out of your way to even steal a moment together. The spouse is invited to attend events, parties, with this OP that you are not included in. Your spouse lies to the other person at these events to mask why you aren't attending (you're sick, tired, working, etc.). Truth be told, you weren't invited!<P>At the same time, the distance between you grows. You lose all connections. Your spouse answers the phone and takes it into another room as if to hide information. She starts wearing different clothes, different perfume, maybe starts trying stuff (sushi?) for the first time after never even expressing the most remote interest.<P>Sound familiar? If it does, your spouse is having an EA.<P>Sucks, huh? Worse yet, if they don't get it, if they don't understand the concept of an EA, it makes recovery REALLY tough. Just the absence of the physical connection (it WILL eventually get to that point) doesn't make it an easier.<P>You are not alone...<P>--keystone

The answer to you question is nothing<P>there is no difference.<P>The denial of it "truly" being an affair is a delusion on both the part of the betrayed and the betrayer.<BR>Both parties decieving themselves into thinking it's not really an affair until sex occurs. <BR> The moment that your H puts the OW's feeling over your's... Blam@#!%@# you've got yourself a very distructive affair....Thank you greg for enlighting me.... READ *LOOKING FOR A MANS OPINION* POSTED JAN 13- BY ACACIA <BR> You see that's when He loves her more. I think it's at this point, they put on a martor's hat.. They abstain from sex for the good of the cause.. eventhough they are head over heals in love.<BR> I know because it took my H 5mo. after discovery to make the break from his first EA and ONE year to make the break from his second EA. And.....I still think..TWO years after discovery he is still in withdrawl.<BR>Nobody can tell me it any different. <BR>read my story to see the misery my H has put me through.<P>

I love seeing the "emotional affair" being given legitamacy here; it's so true that the man doesn't recognize it as an "affair" unless sex is involved. As I posted elsewhere, I was actually the OW in an office EA some years ago, and so I feel I'm uniquely qualified to recongnize the "early warning signs" of my SO's "friendship" with a female coworker; when she pulls her tricks, I know exactly what she's doing because I have been there, done that myself! My SO knows about my "past" and concludes that it's made me paranoid that that's why I'm seeing a problem where there isn't one; I maintain that it's made me able to know it when I see it. He, too, insists that because it's not sexual and claims it never will be (she's "not his type"), that I have nothing to worry about. Neither was my EA sexual, but it was very real and VERY damaging to the man's marriage (and this budding "friendship" will be to our relationship, if it continues/progresses). If anything, I think an EA is even WORSE, as it's my opinion that a man will give his body more easily than his heart/mind/soul; when that happens, you've REALLY got a problem.

Sorry guys, but I've got to object! Strongly!!!<P>All I've seen on the last few posts is how we men don't see the EA as damaging. I beg to differ. I've been trying to get my W to understand even the concept of an EA. She's the one holding to the "just friends" line, not me. And, I think for many of you who have been with the board for a while, you know that there are ust as many men in my position as there are women.<P>Truth be told, it's all about "denial". Men or women having EA's are in denial that they have crossed over a line in their marriages. If they constantly deny that it's an affair, the guilt goes away. They find ANY way they can to validate the "friendship", and keep it "safe".<P>She has also taken the position that something physical has to happen before an "affair" exists. Again, I strongly disagree. She's admitted that her "friends" -- including the Om and her other sex friends have been filling those emotional needs that I've failed to address. Yet, "it's not an affair"! B.S.!!!!!<P>Sorry to take such a strong stance, but since Sept my W refuses to accept that her EA is an affair, and resents the fact that I continue to look at it in that way.<P>--keystone<p>[This message has been edited by keystone (edited January 18, 2000).]

My apologies; don't mean to make sexist generalizations; of course women can also be in denial about the extent of a friendship... It's just been my experience that my man (like so many men) is blind to the "wiles" of women; men do tend to be trusting, naive, and easily bamboozled (since Eve talked Adam into biting the apple???)... That's not to say that a man can't lure an innocent woman into an affair, nor that women, like men, can't be in denial once it's underway. Point well taken!

keystone -- You are not alone my friend. I too have felt just as you have regarding this issue.<P>Read my previous response to this thread. . .<BR>Read some of my older posts. . . <P>I know exactly what you are feeling. I've been there.<P>God Bless