Jim,<P>I really don't have anything important to say. I really just wanted to commend you for being able to be so upbeat in the face of your situation. As you know, my divorce is final and I'm still in pain. Do you ever have days when you feel your wife will move on and never look back? I keep thinking my ex will be miserable, but sometimes I think he has just forgotten about us and will have a happy life. I've noticed in many of your posts that you are firm in the belief they will regret it. I read about your court appearance, and if you are like me, when she had you moved from her side, I'm sure you were crushed. You have to think, what did I ever do to her to make her that cold? It's amazing how these people can treat you when they decide they are finished with you. I hope she sees what a wonderful H she has. If your divorce goes through, do you think you will give up all hope?<P>Thanks<P>AD

Jim, <BR>I, too want to throw my hat in the ring and tell you what an amazing person I think you are. Your responses and upbeat advice have helped me a great deal. I just want you to know how much your insight has helped me. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we love ya man!! Whenever you need us, we will be there for you!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Ditto from me. You seem like you are so calm in the face of adversity. And you go out of your way to make all of the newbies feel welcome and give them all of the info you need. <BR>You need to know that we are all praying for you and will be here whenever you have your down times.

<B>already divorced</B>,<P>Gee.. thanks for a personal post... <P>Susan and Mitzi too... very nice to have your compliments and concern... <P><B>No</B>... I don't feel there is a chance she will just move on an never look back...<BR>That's mostly because of the kids... She loves them very much... and as long as she has contact with them, she will have contact with me... and my family and her family. She hasn't called her family but twice since she moved away 5 months ago (not even during the holidays)... When she sees them again, when the kids have some special event, she will feel such incredible guilt.<P>But... what seems to be missing is the <B>remorse</B> that should follow the guilt... it's not there yet. My W may have "parts" of a happy life... but as she continues to have contact with the kids... it will be a constant reminder to her on how she has wronged them... wronged her family... wronged her friends... and (for the time being... to a much lesser degree) wronged me. In her eyes... since I am the cause of that "fantasy world busting"... I am on the bottom of the "wronged" totum pole!<P>My wife <B>will</B> regret it...<BR>There isn't a doubt in my mind....<BR>How long will that take... I don't honestly know...<BR>Most likely after the divorce (I have resigned myself to the fact that it will happen but will still slow it down.)<P>Why is there no doubt...<P>1. Right now the OM is only meeting a few of her <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>... "affection" and "sexual fulfillment".<P>2. The "conversation" has dropped off already... since their clandestine e-mail make no sense... they live together. My son also says when they (W and OM) get into disagreements... the OM opens his jaw and nothing comes out.<P>3. The only form of "Recreational Companionship" they share is... renting videos and country dancing. Now dancing is very important to her... but the OM has two left feet. I have danced "folk" dancing with my W for years... How far can vidoes and country dancing take them? We also had broadway plays... scouting and so much more in common.<P>4. The OM has proven track record of <B>not</B> providing "financial support". All throughout the courtship(affair), my W paid for virtually <B>everything</B>... dates... concerts... etc. (of course at that time it was on <B>my</B> credit card.)<P>5. When my W will be obligated to pay back $20K-$30K in social security benefits to my stepson (yeah... she kind of blew this money on who knows what)... OM will think twice about marrying into this kind of debt.<P>6. When she comes into contact with anything of "old"... she always cries. Like this past weekend... she came into <B>our</B> church... and looked at the pictures of the kids about to have their "first penance"... and said to me... <B>these were my kids</B>. She taught them at religious ed. for 3 years (and that includes our daughter)!!! She had tears welling up in her eyes for quite a while.<P>7. She has taken to the OM's family like it was her own (to the exclusion of her own... her mom, brother, sisters, etc...) When OM's kids (18yo and 17yo) get out on their own... she won't have them either... Our kids are (17, 10 and 7) and contact with them <B>is</B> contact with me.<P>So with all of the above...<BR>I see it coming... <B>unfortunately</B>... it could take some time. This fantasy world has grasped her so tight...<P>By burning all her bridges (her family, my family, church friends... etc.) she has made it harder for her to come back... but she did see this weekend the incredibly warmth in her friends receiving her back (except for my folks)?!<P>You know... about the court appearance... I was almost expecting she'd do something like that. And even yesterday, when she dropped the kids off...(and I again tried to give her a rose... dummy me)... after she tore the flower apart and gave me a "F... Off"... I am constantly focusing on the fact that she is just doing one thing... <B>protecting her fantasy world</B>!<P>Obviously... I don't give up hope after the divorce. If the financials don't do it to her though... I probably will bite the bullet and go into a Plan B (duration unknown)... I have a life too... and my destiny can't be put on hold forever... <P>Thanks for asking... <BR>It gives me a chance to give an update..<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 17, 2000).]

NSR, just from the brief time I have been here I want to say thanks for the response I received from you.<P>Like you, I know this fantasy has to end, but it is Sooooo painful while we are dealing with it.<P>May the Lord bless you.<P>Martha

NSR,<BR>I think she will regret it, too. I had a similar experience with my ex and church. We have always been very involved in our church, both taught classes and were involved with the youth. My ex had actually been nominated to be a deacon with I discovered his affair. He immediately stopped attending church. Our youngest son was baptized a few months ago and my ex had to attend. He entered the door in tears and sobbed thru the whole service (lasted about an hour), hugged our son, and left, still in tears. I don't know how many of his needs the OW is meeting, everything seems to be going smoothly for them. He has no money, lives with his parents, and considering the support he pays me, I don't think he will be able to stand on his feet for the next ten years. His family still supports him in this, but I know they do feel he has done wrong, they just won't say anything to him. He only sees his children on alternate weekends, but that seems to be enough for him. I do know he can't go near the church, when the kids were in the Christmas play, he told them he couldn't make it. I would also like to see some remorse about how he has treated me, but he has justified everything so well, I don't know if he thinks he has done anything. He can't really look me in the eye.<P>I wonder if their OR blows up, if this will all hit them, or if they will be past the worst of it. I know I am getting better, and I have heard everyone say it takes about 2 years. If we can get over it, do you think they can, too?<P>Thanks <P>AD

<B>Martha642</B>...<BR>Thank you for your warm thoughts... <BR>I'll be praying for you too! <P><B>already divorced</B>...<BR>Wow, the similarites are striking...<P>My W too missed the Christmas play (for the past 5 years she directed/produced it... so this year <B>I</B> filled in for her as director and producer). The kids did miss her. <P>I had hopes someday of becoming a Catholic deacon (means a little bit different than in other Christian churches)... but that is now a pipe dream (it would require her consent... even if we are divorced) <P>I too am hoping the money situation would spur upon some "feelings"... unfortunately I think I have to rely money's impact on the OM... not her.<P>At least I have my W's family 100%+ support. they are so disillusioned with what she's done. <P>She too, is only getting alternating weekend visits... so far that's all seh wanted. <P>And the inevitable <B>no eye contact</B>. I can't tell you how many times I've spoken to her cheek or back... <P>Yeah... 2 years....<BR>2 years to poison a 11+ year marriage and 16+ year relationship...<BR>Getting over... who knows???<P>Thanks again. You're sweet. <BR>Praying for you too. <P>Jim

Jim, <BR>Thanks for the update.....I can see why you are so committed to stay in Plan A, at least for now. Your love for your wife is one in a million...she just needs to wake up and see it!!! My H is not mean or nasty to me, just uncaring. We can talk about the divorce like business partners (which we are still as well), and like your wife I think he feels guilt, but not remorse. He has told me that he has no idea why, but he is drawn like a moth to a flame to his married OW. And , while I sometimes think he wishes he could turn the clock back and start all over with me, he does/did have that opportunity, but choose to continue with her. It is such a hard pill to swallow. But, having been in Plan B now for 6-7 months, I would never go back to my marriage the way it was. I could start all over with him, but would need to feel from him the love and effort he is putting into his new relationship. And I am not sure, even if he did come back, he would do that. I have to say that I am so much happier in plan B than I was in Plan A...I do not live with the pain I was feeling, being rejected constantly, the lies to cover himself up, etc. hen I look at my emotional needs, boy, honesty and openess is right at the top! Could he do that??? I am not sure....<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Jim,<P>Thanks for the update. Is your divorce scheduled for the 25th of this month??<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Jim,<P>Your resolve and faith are always inspireing.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Jim,<BR> I just wanted you to know I love your posts,too.You always seem to find the right words to say,especially to the new people.I just wondered if you have thought about something,yet.If you get divorced,and later your W wanted to come back,would you/could you take her back?What with all the betrayel,lies,deception,being with another man,and hurting your kids like that,wouldn't there be too many bridges burned?Would your family,friends,church call you a fool if you took her back?I'm in the same boat as you,and I ask myself these questions all the time.I can't even answer my own questions.Have you thought about this? --Murph

You guys are <B>so</B> caring...<P><B>Susan</B>...<BR>Yep... my W's OM is still married too... their(OM and his W's) divorce is will be in June/July 2000) I try to talk to my W about the divorce... but all my W's been saying for 3 months now is... "I won't talk to you(Jim) until you give me my money"... Oh well.<BR>I can definitely see the advantages of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... but Steve Harley suggests <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... until at least the divorce trial date is set.<P><B>Desiree</B>...<BR>No... thank God...<BR>But it could be... It is the date of the Early Settlement Panel(ESP) we have in our state... which is form of an "encouraged" mediation... If my W and I don't agree on everything (and we won't)... then a trial date is set 4-12 weeks later (closer to 12 weeks because of the backlog of cases.) After the trial... the divorce will be (unfortunately) granted.<P><B>Bill</B>...<BR>I'm following is good footsteps...<BR>Chris, Paul, K... (not to mention the <B>very patient ladies</B>...Di, Desiree, Susan, Terri and others)<BR>Consider yourself fortunate to have known them as well.<P><B>Murph</B>...<BR>Ah... a pause before your questions... good ones at that!<P>Would I take her back after the divorce?... <B>Yes</B>!<BR>With every <B>awful</B> thing she's done?... <B>Yes</B>!<BR>Will I be called a fool? <B>Yes</B>... I'm aleady being all called that.<P>I still see all that has happened as part of my W's <B>addiction</B>. She is sick... very sick... very, very, very, sick... and I married her in sickness and in health!<P>I would not leave her if she had cancer...<BR>I would not leave her if she was a parapalegic...<BR>I would not leave her if she was in a coma...<P>I know you're thinking... in all of the above... she would not be overtly hating, cursing, or belittling me... true...<BR>But that is the nature of <B>this</B> addictive disease.<P>I've even thought to myself...<BR>"has this addiction led to her psyche being damaged... (like the brain damage that a drug may cause)"...<BR>If she still has any capacity to realize that what she has done can be corrected by coming back... <B>I'll still take her back</B>!<P>What will be the timeframe of my saying..."she's beyond hope"... <B>I don't know</B>... certainly 2 years is a minimum(would be December 2000)... probably 3 maybe 4 years may be more likely...<BR>If OM lasts that long... God help him.<P>I do take my children into account here...<BR>They have already said to me... "Dad... you can't get married to anyone else... it is wrong." Time can change this... for them and for me.<P><B>Everyone</B>...<BR>Thanks for all of your <B>care</B>...<BR>It's for posts like this... that I stay here...<BR>Of course I do like being a welcome wagon for the newbies too.<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Jim,<P>You are so right. We have those great people's examples.<P>I feel like one of the most fortunate people in the world...<P>Bill<P>"commit to the Lord what ever you do, and your plans will succeed" Proverbs16:3<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Jim,<P>Still praying for you. But, don't give her any more roses or any other gifts...Steve would slap your hand for that one!!! BIG LB, 'cuase she doesn't like it (silly girl!)!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>You're right...<P>It's been about 2 months since the last time I tried the rose... I thought maybe after 2 months I'd test the waters again...<P>... I guess I just got dunked again.<P>No more roses from me...<P>... I don't think there are <B>any</B> little <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> with my W... they are all <B>big</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>... <P>Thank you for your thoughts <P>Jim