My husband and I are in our first year of marriage. For the last five months, we have been arguing about how to arrange our finances. He had alot of money when we got married. I agreed that I would allow him to receive his pre-marital assets back if we ever got a divorce, but any earnings during the marriage should be split equally. He does not agree. He wants his original money plus inflation (approx an additonal $60,000 to $100,000 per year. Our income is about $120,000 per year. We are at a total standstill. I finally got sick of trying to work it out and filed for divorce. He says that he really wants to continued being married and thinks that we should just drop the issue and he will just keep all of his money plus his earnings in separate accounts. I will not agree on this. He does not understand that I what I want most is equality and unity. I can't make him understand. We went to joint counseling. After three sessions they told us not to come back until we had this money issue resolved. I told my husband that I think if he wants to arrange his financial affairs like he is single, then he should be single. I know I will meet someone else who thinks like I do. I don't care if they don't have any money. All I want is someone who treats me like an equal. He says that I'm not trying. What else can I do?
<p>See additonal information I posted below.<p>[This message has been edited by cdurta.]

May I ask why this issue is so important to the two of you? Why are you stressing so much on what you will do when you divorce if you never plan to divorce?
<p>Plus, he can't force you to agree to anything! If he is so concerned about keeping his money, then he shouldn't have married and the two of you should have discussed this way before marriage. Plus, as much as I can remember, prenuptial agreements aren't always binding.
<p>I understand his wanting to keep his money, but getting a divorce over how to divide his money if you do divorce, when you weren't planning a divorce seems crazy? Is he afraid of something?
<p>When you marry it is forever and it is to share equally - his money is your money and vice versa. Now do I agree in alimony? No. Not if the man got there on his own, like in your case. But marriage means sharing- you are one unit and it should be treated this way. Joint checking accounts, savings accounts, the whole shabang! if you are not ready for that, don't get married.
<p>Melissa

Hi cdurta,
<p>You left out some specifics that might make this situation make a little more sense to those reading. Do you both work? How old (approx) are each of you? Do you plan to have a family? More importantly, does he want you to quit, stay home, and raise the kids?
<p>On the tother hand, none of this should make a difference. I think that basically you are correct about his wanting to be married, but handle his finances as if he were single. ("Legally" wouldn't any "agreement" you made now be worthless because there was no "prenuptial agreement" about money?)
<p>I think he's putting a rather bad light on the whole institution on marriage. He's already planning what happens "if you divorce" as opposed to working towards a marriage that should last forever. He's showing how selfish and self-centered he can be before it's even an issue.
<p>As for your counselors: It sounds like you shouldn't go back to them AT ALL! You should find one who will help you work through your problems, not tell you "don't come back 'til you work it out"! What are you paying THEM for then?
<p>It sounds like this is an issue that does need to be put to rest before anything else can be done.
<p>BTW, what ever happened to "what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine"? What would happen to your husband if he should have a sudden change of fortune? (People DO lose all of their money occasionally!) Would he expect you to bale him out with "your money"?
<p>I could certainly understand if you're feeling that money is more important to him than you are!
<p>Val<p>[This message has been edited by V.]

Thanks for your responses. Here are some of the missing details.
<p>We are both in our late twenties. We do not have any children. He is finishing law school in December and I am finishing a Master's in Taxation in November. He doesn't want either one of us to work so we can travel and stay home with our children when we have them. As a matter of fact, he threatens me that he will never go back to work.
<p>I have worked very hard to get where I'm at in life, but gave it up for him. Now when it's his turn to give up something for me, he won't do it. I understand that he is concerned about his pre-marital money, and am completely willing to sign an agreement that he will get it back if we ever get a divorce. However, I think all the money should be put in joint accounts where we are both considered owners. The rest can be worked out if and when we get a divorce.
<p>We did discuss this prior to marriage, but did not see any attorneys or have any legal agreement. He told me that the law said that he is entitled to the earnings on his pre-marital assets. Being that he is a law student, I believed him. After we got married, we got into a major argument and I went to see a lawyer. I found out that in Indiana, all assets are subject to division and there is a presumption that everything is split 50/50. That means I would be entitled to half of everything he owns, but I am willing to settle for only half of what's earned during the marriage. I am already agreeing to give up a potential right to over a million dollars and that's not good enough for him.
<p>I've tried to explain it to him, but he doesn't get it. He can't understand why I can't be happy just letting him own everything while we're married. I told him that I will let him out of the relationship because he can't handle the risks of marriage. According to him, I am not morally justified in seeking a divorce.
<p>I am trying not to have any contact with him, but he keeps sending me letters and e-mails to continue the argument and tell me how wrong I am. He says that I am a golddigger. I only want equality, it has nothing to do with money.
<p>Please help.
<p>[This message has been edited by cdurta.]<p>[This message has been edited by cdurta.]

Sounds like this an issue that is way out of control!!!! And I don't see where he gets golddigger if you aren't planning on ever taking his money from him from the premarital relationship.
<p>Can you guys just let this issue rest for awhile? Not talk about the "what ifs". Enjoy your life and marriage and try to be sure you never divorce? Can the two of you do that?
<p>Have you asked him why he is so afraid? Did finding out that you have a right to his money just throw him over the edge and now he obsesses on how his money is in jeopardy?
<p>Like it was said before, find different counselors the ones you went to sound like quacks!!!! They might help you see this better!
<p>melissa
<br>

Dear cdurta,
<p>I may be out of line, but I fail to see where money is the issue. Your relationship was doomed before it ever started. When a relationship is so deeply seated in money issues instead of a loving union, then serious thought should be given to why you ever married in the first place.
<br>Many of us would relish the thought of never having to want for anything, rather than lanquish in auguing over who gets what, when (not if)we divorce. Love is much more valuable than money, in any amount. It seems as though you both were raised with a distorted sense of love and marriage. Although he seems to be unwilling to accomodate your wishes, he at least seemed to want to put the issue aside and stay married, but you on the other hand chose to divorce rather than accept things as they were , for the time being,and work on the critical issues that are necessary for a marriage to work. It sounds to me that you have plenty of money of your own, and even though he is over protective of his money, with the growth of a loving, caring,relationship this all would probably have worked itself out in time. With so many couples dealing with infedelity, abuse, etc.,to hear of a relationship founded on money is indeed a sad statement.
<br>I will agree that you seemed to have worked very hard for what you have monetarily, isn't your marriage worth an equal amount of effort? I don't mean to sound as though i'm attacking you or him, but priorities in a marriage certainly shouldn't begin with money issues. If you are so worried about it, put your mind at rest, divorce, take your half to which you are entitled and move on. If your relationship was based on love, money would not matter to you in the least, especially since you seem to have plenty, on both sides.
<p>
<br>John_98

To respond to John 98, I don't have much money on my own. I am swamped with student loans. I gave up my job for him.
<p>The reason I choose divorce, is because if I stay with him, he will just keep all the money in his own accounts. I did have some money when we got married, but I transferred it to joint ownership. Now, I don't even have the money that was mine to start with.

Dear cdurta,
<p>I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post. In it you said together your income was around $120,000. The bottom line is someone seems to be putting too much emphasis on money and not enough on the relationship. I agree that he should be willing to share in the financial responsibilities, but is it worth throwing away your marriage. Isn't it worth a certain amount of time, communication, effort, in the off chance he may come around to your way of thinking or at least meet you half way? It's obvious from the numbers that too many couples let finances ruin what was once a great union. Statistics also show that had many of these couples try to work thru their problems instead of divorcing many would still be together and enjoying great marriages. If, on the other hand he is absolutely steadfast in his money hoarding, then some serious thought should be given as to where this behavior is coming from. I didn't mean to sound as though I was taking his side. I merely was offering some thoughts on your situation. I have come here for advice many, many times. I'm sorry if I offended.
<p>john

cdurta,
<p>It sounds as though you love him very much, in spite of his taking a very hard, unreasonable line. John_98 is right about priorities. It's obvious that money is much more important to your husband than you, or a successful marriage. You, on the other hand, have already given up your job "for him" (not that you want to get into a "you owe me" situation) but he won't even share with his "life partner" in good faith. (He's a lawyer, ask him if he thinks he's showing "good faith".)
<p>Obviously, you have some very tough decisions and much hard work ahead of you. He's setting himself up with a "golden parachute", as it's called in big business. He wants YOU to give up your career, BEAR his children RAISE them (yes, you'll both raise them, but physically and emotionally, you will pay the greater price.) but gives himself a huge safety net in case things "turn sour". I hate pessimism, but I think things are primed to turn sour, don't you? (I'm far from being a feminist, but I think I'd make a good one! BTW I'm a man - in case "Val" isn't clear.)
<p>At the very least, I think that you should put having children on "hold" until you work this out. As time goes by, you will become more and more financially dependent him. If you were to divorce in a month or two, it would hurt. In 5 or 10 years, with 3 children in tow, it would be devastating.
<p>Please - don't settle for just our advice - seek out a professional counsellor. You owe it to your self, your marriage, and your future!
<p>Val

cdurta,<p>Have you read Harley's Q&A postings on How to Resolve Financial Conflicts...<p> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5023_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5023_qa.html</A> <p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In a caring relationship, couples put their incomes into a joint account and then decide jointly how it is to be spent. It's only in a relationship that's been overcome by self-centeredness that couples cash their paychecks, holding some of it out for themselves, or deposit the whole thing into a personal account. <p>Your marriage is a study in what can happen when my Policy of Joint Agreement ("never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse") is not followed. My policy will straighten out all aspects of your marriage if you and your husband will follow it. You will be in bliss after one year!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>[This message has been edited by John Byers (edited 11-07-98).]

I would love to follow the Policy on Joint Agreement. How do I get my husband to?

Does your husband have some underlying fear that you will leave him? Did his family have financial troubles when he was a child? He seems to be dealing with a trust issue here. Getting him to agree to use the Policy of Joint Agreement and to follow Dr. Harley's rules for finances should be a long term goal, but perhaps first you need to put this issue on the back burner and work on building some trust in the relationship so that you have a safe place to revisit this issue.<p>You mentioned that he doesn't want to work anymore. Was this something you two discussed and agreed upon before marriage? It seems to me that in order to be able to stop working, you need a joint nest egg that's pretty sizeable, especially if you want a family... Is he worried that you want him to work full time so you can stay home? Is that something you agreed to early on, but now he's changed his mind? <p><p>[This message has been edited by Libby (edited 11-08-98).]

cdurta,<br>re: following policy of joint agreement...<br>I suggest a fundamental shift in your approach. Within the present framework -- planning for divorce, rather than planning for marriage -- your options are limited.<p>Back off on declaring the "rightness" of any particular solution, and resist the temptation to play the divorce "trump" card. Both you and your husband should read Harley's book, "Give and Take" -- together, if possible -- and reach an understanding of the fundamental principles of a good marriage and how to negotiate. An important first step is the elimination of "love busters". <p>Then you can begin taking small steps towards building a foundation of mutual trust. One of those steps is adopting the policy of joint agreement. <p>It takes time and gentle, caring persistence, but it will put an end to the troubles and restore the bliss to your marriage.