Hello,

My wife and I have a huge conflict and I don't know what to try. My wife wants to have more kids and I'm dead set against the idea. We have 3 young children all under the age of 6.

I have a long list of reasons not to have more children and my wife agrees with my reasons. She just can't get past how depressed it makes her feel when we talk about not having any more. She feels if she can just have one more she'll be happy. I need to add that was what she said after #2 and I didn't want to have a 3rd. I love our 3 child and don't regret having him. It does upset me though because having that 3rd child was a compromise to our situation and I thought that would be the end of that conflict. Then during that pregnancy she announces she really wants a girl. Well it wasn't and now she wants to try again.

I threw around the idea of seeing a counselor she had seen in the past and she didn't seem to think that person would be able to help us resolve the issue. I'm reading into that comment that she wasn't open to talking with someone because they may tell her she shouldn't have any more.

Is there anyone else out there who has experienced this same situation?

I would like some ideas, as I'm sure she would also, like some ideas on how we could convince the other to change their mind or work out some other option.

Hey I haven't posted in a few weeks here. There is a thread that was started by people who want more and there spouses don't. (I'll bump it up) Man if hadn't known better I thought you were my H posting here. Same number of kids, practically the same ages. My reasons for wanting another are a little more complex (read my signature <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ), but my H is still saying no, and I don't think that is going to change.
I have my good days and bad days...this week seems to be the bad one. I can't talk to him about it b/c a fight would result.
The one thing that I keep saying to myself is that I do not want to have one if he is not in agreement with it. I do not want him to feel pressured into making a choice, which ,in therapy he has stated he has felt cornered into making the decision to have one. *I* would hate to be in that position.
Do you feel that way? Can I ask what your reasons are for not having one? Is her reason for wanting one b/c she wants a girl?
The difficult thing about a situation such as this is that there is no compromise...someone will feel like they were not heard or that they "lost", and this is where I stuggle with the concept of the "Policy of Joint Agreement".
Be honest with your wife and please, whatever you do, be consistant with what you say vs. your actions. My H was not and I had my hopes set very high...when I finally realized that there was no hope for a 4th I was hit REAL hard...and still dealing with it. If your wife needs someone to talk to let me know.
NGU
Hope you find peace in this...

If two people cant agree on MORE kids its simple, there shouldnt be any more, and it should be the end of the conversation. It sounds like you already compromised once and had one more, in todays world 3 kids is a full plate, and she should be happy for what she has. IF your still in the mood to "compromise" I'd see a DR and find a good clinic that can assure you the next one would be a girl... and if your lucky THAT will make her happy...4 kids, wow, best of luck to ya... kids in the house for another 20 years....how old are you??

Dear not giving up,

Thanks for your reply. To answer your question about my reasons I will say this; I sat down and listed reasons for and against having more kids. The only FOR reason was I thought it might make her happy. There were about 10 reasons against having more. Of which my age is probably the biggest reason. I will be forty here shortly.

My wife has read my list of reasons and she agrees and has some of the same reasons for not having more herself. The problem is that she doesn't like the depressed feeling she gets when she tells herself there aren't going to be anymore.

We're both real new to this website and right now are concentrating on fixing our relationship before we address the baby issue. We've both completed our Emotional Needs questionaire and are waiting until we have time to sit down and discuss them together.

I know what I need to do is find a way for her to get more comfortable with the thought of not having more kids. Unfortunately she has a little victim issue where she gets very upset when she feels decisions and events are forced upon her. So she gets angry with me because she feels her decision is being made by me not her. She's addressed her unhappiness with not having more kids briefly before #3 was born with a counselor, but as we can see she didn't get to the point where she was OK with not having more.

Let me know if you have any ideas for my wife. I would have to ask her if she would be interested in talking with someone who has a similar problem. Of course she may be angry with me for airing our dirty laundry with someone outside our marriage. I don't know. Sometimes I'm a little hesitant about doing anything that's going to upset. I know this sounds like I'm an enabler and that's not good but it's usually easier for me to appease her than see her get upset.

Thanks again.

Hello FortyOne,

Thanks for your post.

Sometimes I try to tell myself I need to take the firm stance that you've described. Well actually I have taken that stance and told her I am very happy with 3 and am absolutely against a 4th.

I do, however, need to find ways to help us get through this situation. I don't want her going through the rest of our lives together blaming me for not having more. I want us to be able to get to a point where she makes up her mind and is convinced that 3 children are enough.

Thanks for your input.

MyAlias...I will reply as soon as I can but it may not be till next week. I have all the kids home today, my H returns today from his weekly business trip, and we are having friends over for Easter dinner.
But I have alot to reply to so if my son naps today, early enough, I will post. If not, enjoy the weekend and look for the reply next week.
NGU

Alias, i can feel for you, once these women get something on the brain, {like more kids} it never leaves, against my better judgement i let my wife talk me into having ONE MORE kid, she's 8 now, although i love her very much I could have just as easily done without all the work,as i said i love my daughter very much, and the sad part is i spend more quality time with her than my wife, who just had to have one more, it just dont make sence, By having another all it did was please some deep down "need" to have two of her own "natural" children, I also think she saw me losing faith in her and wanted something to keep me there, she had my number because i love all my kids a lot, and i hate to hurt them in any way. I'm 41 and my OLDER kids are in high school, in a few short years i would have been child free, and able to change my work schedule to slow down some and enjoy life more, but a small child made that pipe dream impossible now,as i say i love my little girl, and i'm not bitter, but i wish i would have thought it through more, But who knows if i would have made a different decision!!! COUDDA woudda shouddaaa....

Hey fortyone,

You're right. I can't explain the power my wife's emotions have on her reasoning ability. I know I'm not a completely unemotional person, but I don't understand how logic is unable to overcome emotion.

I do have some good news. The W and I began discussing the EN Questionaires we filled out. We sat down together and went through about half of the topics. We had some heated discussions, both of us get real defensive, but in the end we set goals or directions for each of us to follow under each topic.

It's only been a few days and we're both doing our best to improve the affection and conversation sides of our relationship. I'm actually feeling a little less resentful about the lack of Affection, SF and Recreation in our relationship.

That and golf league starts soon so I have something to look forward to.

I'm still not sure how I'm going to help her get over wanting more children. She falls back to pleading with me, claiming she'll do everything, I can do whatever I want, just get me pregnant. She says it in a humorous manner but I'm sure if that's what it took to have another she'd agree to do it.

In the meantime I'm trying to be patient and understanding of her feelings. I am enjoying the kids more than ever. I've got 3 of the greatest kids a father could ever hope for and I hope they stay big fans of their Dad forever. I hear the teenage years are a real struggle.

Got to go, thanks for the post.

My Alias,
Well the issue reared its ugly head in therapy yet again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and another hour was wasted...not only that, but it also ruined the whole day.
He said in therapy that for him it is a done deal, and he had thought I was taking steps in trying to move forward, but in what I said in therapy he isn't sure I can...
There is alot more to it that just "wanting another baby" for me. You have read the whole story in the other thread, his affair has alot to do with it, probably more than I am willing to admit.
Anyway I wanted to say that I really don't have many ideas for your wife. I will tell you what I am trying to do, but deep in my heart it hurts so much.
I am working out again, something that if pregnant or with an infant I would not be doing, and liking the fact that I am toning up a bit. I am going to start to do all the projects that I have bought all the stuff for, my ceramics, stenciling. I am going to join a bowling league in a few weeks, I belonged to one years ago and really miss it. I am also trying to focus on the three children I have, and hopefully will be able to do all the things that I would like to do with my youngest, room mom, brownie leader for my girls, things that I couldn't do if I had an infant.
Now I am not saying that it is easy, these are things that I would easily give up (the workouts, ceramics, bowling) if he were to come up and say..."HEY I think we are in a better place, lets try for that baby!" After you had picked me up off the floor I would gladly give that all up, but what helps me to battle the loss of this chance is that I remind myself what I can offer the kids I have. They need me so much and this issue is so consuming for me that I sometimes don't give them what they need.
Sad, but it is true <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

One other thing you mentioned is feeling like the victim. That is one thing that I can really relate to b/c I feel like I have lost out on some things...again due to the affair. I also in the same breath, blame myself for his final decision. If I had not pushed him so hard, if I had done just what you are doing with your wife, and filled out the questionaires, worked on the relationship, then maybe he would have said yes. In the beginning he said that he felt our relationship wasn't in the best place and wanted to know we were okay before ENTERTAINING the idea of another. I didn't hear an immediate YES to my wanting another so being who I am I pushed for the child, not hearing that he wasn't happy where we are. If I had addressed our troubles, put them as the priority, I would probably have had a chance. I get angry at myself for that. So now I have both sides of anger and resentment, towards him for his decsion and toward me for not giving it a chance.
I understand what you said about asking your wife about wanting to talk about this. I just wanted to let you/her know that if she needs to talk I am willing. I have made many friends on the three (yes 3!!!!) boards I post on. I have had lunch with two and phone/e-mail/IM with others. I have been on these boards for almost 3 years now, and many friendships have come from it. Let me know if she wants to talk, and BTW my H says the same thing about airing out the "dirty laundry". He knows I post but I only spend time on the computer when he travels, hence he is coming home tonite so I will not be back on till next week. Have a great weekend!
NGU

Here's a couple suggestions...Is there some organization, like an orphanage, hospital, drop-in centre, somewhere your wife could channel her need with children who could really use it? How about becoming a foster parent? There are a lot of unwanted children/babies out there who need the kind of love your wife wants to give.

Hey SAB...just wanted to quickly respond as time is short right now...I have seriously considered fostering...
NGU

My Alias...just wondering how it is going...had therapy again, and she said that we are clearly not in sync with communication. We had filled out a questionaire much like the Emotional Needs one here but it is only 13 questions. We were on different sides on 8! of them...we have alot of work ahead of us...
Also triggered BAD the morning of therapy...didn't set me up for a productive seesion...oh well, we keep on trying.
Just popping in to see how things are...
NGU

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She feels if she can just have one more she'll be happy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Happiness does not come from having 4 children versus three. Or 5 vs 4. Chances are if she does not feel happy and fulfilled now, she won't with 'just one more' child either. Perhaps she should consider talking a bit with a counselor, and sorting out why this is so important for her, and just why she feels she cannot be happy with the family she has now. I am not saying that her desire for another child isn't valid, but I wonder of something else plays into this as well.

Just a thought.

Kathi

Thanks for all the replies,

My wife has been sick with pneumonia for a week or so, so this discussion hasn't come up. We both are working on each other right now and I think we're avoiding the baby question until we feel better about us.

Although fostering is a neat idea I think my W desire lies more in the 'I love being pregnant' mode.

She is extremely happy with the 3 kids we have. They are the best and they do make her happy.

It still just boils down to her love of being pregnant and tending to something that relies on you 100% for everything. She doesn't want the extra burdon of a 4th child. She knows it will be extremely hard. She would like to wait another year or so before getting pregnant but she knows age is one of my hangups with having more.

While I think babies are cute I certainly prefer children as they grow up. I like doing more active things with them, wrestling, running, playing hide and seek, etc.

She has told me she is just going to have to get used to the idea of not being pregnant ever again. Unfortunately that depresses her and I certainly don't want her depressed. I keep thinking there will be some miracle event/conversation that allows her heart to concentrate more of what she has versus what she wants to have.

Thanks again everyone.

Hi again...your wife and I sound soooo much alike.
See, I have denied it and don't feel that this is the only reason I want a fourth, but I too love being pregnant. I had three wonderfully "easy" healthy, pregancies. I loved being pregnant and miss it. I think that alot of my need/desire/and inability to put the issue to rest lies on the fact of what happened to my last pregnancy. Yes, there were no complications, yes he was healthy, and a super quick delivery, but...soooo much was taken away from me(more than you all know). And my H had a choice to make in that and he blew it. I couldn't set up the room, take out and sort the clothes, find a name...I could go on and on. Do I feel it is owed to me, no. Do I feel that it would bring closure, yes. In some wierd way I feel that both of them could be mistaken for the other.
I also love the infancy stage. The unconditional love. The always feeling like the baby needed me.
Gosh, I can relate to ALL of those feelings.

I too have come to the realization that I am going to need to get over it. I had the best dose of birth control this weekend. It was my daughters First Communion and we had family in from back home. I had 8 kids ranging from 2 months to 7 years, 7 of them girls! I want to share what my therapist has been telling me to do...channel that unfulfilled need/desire into something else. To find another way to feel that I have a purpose in this life...that there are other ways to fulfill the need to nurture than being pregnant and tending to an innocent life. (Although both are so AWESOME what could measure up to it?)
Just wanted to say I relate...hope your wife is feeling better, never had that. Now that we have moved to the south I rarely get sick.
Hoping all is well,
NGU

PS...BTW I just got a prescription filled for anti-depressants. I was on them YEARS ago for depression, and stopped them when we wanted to start having kids. I am having a difficult time starting to take them since I filled the precription. I resent that I have to go back to something I worked so hard to get off of, but since it is a chemical disorder for me (I do not procuce enough seratonum(sp)) I have decided to at least fill it. How would she feel about looking into that? I know alot of people I have met thru the boards I post on have taken them for a short period of time (6 mths or so) to help them with the obessive thoughts and to focus more clearly. It doesn't have to be for life as it may be for me but, for a short time...just a thought...

<small>[ May 05, 2003, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Not Giving Up ]</small>

Dear Not Giving Up,

Thanks for your input. I may actually try mentioning to W that she should try to funnel her energy into other LOVES. I really walk a tight rope when it comes to recommending things to her. She knowingly twists everything I say or do into a negative thought when it comes to issues regarding more children. I will have to find a easy to swallow way for her to carefully evaluate my suggestions.

My W is on Zoloft. Strangely enough she is taking them for anxiety not necessarily depression. Ever since we had kids she has gone from loving stormy weather to hating it and being very afraid of it. She is a weather watching fanatic. She feels she won't be able to protect our kids should a storm approach. She's been dealing with this for 5 years now and it has gotten to the point where I think she's got a better handle on it.

Our last two deliveries were fairly easy, healthy deliveries as well which makes her want to have more.

I don't know if the following will help in our discussion but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. Here is the text from a document I put together to try to help Jennifer understand where I stand when it comes to more children.

Reasons why I want more children

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There&#8217;s a chance that another child would make you happy.
  I am not blind, I can tell how important having another child is to you. I don&#8217;t fully understand why but I respect your desire to have more?
  I get enjoyment out of making you happy.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Reasons why I don&#8217;t want more children
We can&#8217;t find time for each other.
I am very nervous about us a couple. We have this biological attachment of children but other than that we are not really connecting anymore. I feel that I don&#8217;t love you the way I want to and I really don&#8217;t feel loved the way I want to be loved. I think this is a more important discussion than the one about having another child. I sometimes worry we&#8217;re not going to make it or we&#8217;re both going to have to spend the rest of our time being less than happy.

I never wanted a large family.
I have no emotional desire to have more children. Therefore all I can do is think of logical reasons why we should or shouldn&#8217;t have another child.

I thought that having Travis was a great compromise to our situation. You wanted more, I was happy with just having Zach and Alyssa. I love Travis and think he is the sweetest little boy and wouldn&#8217;t trade him for the world. Yet for some reason these 3 kids don&#8217;t fulfill you enough in your life. I don&#8217;t understand that and am frustrated that 3 aren&#8217;t enough.

I am going to be 40 years old.
Assuming we had the child before my 41st birthday and the 4th child stayed at home while he/she attended college, I could be 64 years old before he/she graduates. I have goals of where I want to be and being 64 years old with college tuition, our own mortgage payments and other assorted miscellaneous child related expenses is not where I want to be.

You&#8217;re going to be 37 years old.
We have been blessed with what looks like 3 very healthy children. With the increase in your age and just the normal percentage of children with handicaps being present we&#8217;re taking chances of having to raise a less than healthy child. I couldn&#8217;t deal with that. It is enough for me to take care of the 3 we have.

A less than normal child presents all kinds of difficulties and I don&#8217;t know that our relationship could withstand that additional pressure.

We are already struggling financially.
Although this may just be a temporary position it is still the present situation and it makes me nervous to talk about having another child. Kids are expensive and we provide our kids with plenty of material things.

We don&#8217;t have enough time to devote to the 3 children we already have.
This one seems to becoming more and more evident to me now that we have 3 kids. I love the kids and want to give them as much attention as is possible. With a baby (Travis) it is so difficult to do anything with the other 2. I feel there are some things that may be lacking in Zachary&#8217;s development. (Reading, writing skills, sports related activities, etc.) Alyssa is cruel to Travis because she&#8217;s not getting enough one-on-one with either of us.

Although I am trying to be the best Dad I can, I do get frustrated having so many kids to take care of.
I know you&#8217;ve seen some of this in my level of patience I&#8217;ve had with them. I&#8217;ve been working extremely hard to be more patient, but lately find I&#8217;m frustrated with our relationship and that frustration translates into other things like a lack of patience with the kids. I hate feeling this way. Again, if we were doing better I would be less angry and would be a much better Dad than I have been.

There&#8217;s no guarantee the next one will be a daughter.
If we had another boy then what would we do? Wouldn&#8217;t we be in the same situation we are now? Would you still be as determined to have another one hoping for a daughter?

That's the end of the list. Thanks for listening and for your replies.

sorry about the delay in responding...been a tough week.
Ok here are our arguments...I am not so computer savvy so no bold print! My thoughts are in the {{}}.

His arguments against having more:
1)will not heal the pain he caused from the affair and OC {{to me it will fill a void that was left as we went into that pregnancy knowing it was our last, and so much was taken...like I said I couldn't function-set up his room(my sisters did all of it), she had his first son, named him a name that I was considering,I was constantly in tears from hormones and hurt form the betrayal. I spent time in therapy and on and on...He was the one that decided when to have our third. He made this decision fully knowing what was going to happen, and it plain ole p!$$es me off that he made that decision for me. He was also so emotionally distant from me, and up until 5 months I never understood why. I have stories of strange/distant reactions from him when I asked him to feel our baby move and when I told him it was a boy...I never understood why he reacted the way he did until d-day}}
2)will take away from time with our kids we have: I will not be able to sit and do the homework with an infant on hand. I "vent" when I feel like the chauffer and such. I find it hard to keep up with filing and bills and stuff around the house...{{ok lets look at this one too. He is gone on traveling for business Mon at 3 am till fri 3 am. He works 9 hours away or travels up north or wherever they need him. Lately that has been the norm, but there have been times that he has been home on Mon or gotten home thurs night. I do the bills, laundry, go to an activity every night for the kids, do homework, baths, clean, run errands, and this house runs ok b/c I do it. OK I may run out of milk or not go shopping as much as needed. I hate to cook. But I think I do ok and if I have to let off a little steam, why can't he be the one to hear it?}}
3)We are just getting to a point that we can do differnt things with the kids, camping cruises. A pregnancy/infant would tie us down. {{well not really, maybe in some circumstances, but infants and toddlers are very adaptive and resilient. At least mine are, and I know they could just about go anywhere. You just adapt also.}}
4)How come everytime he begins to make more $, I want to make it so that it is either impossible to move ahead, or that I want to put us in the positon, again, of not having the extras. {{I don't work and granted he worked more than one job to keep me home and now he is in a job that he travels and is away from us so much to keep me home...BUT, he isn't going to change jobs whether we have a baby or not, and we could afford it so although I understand what he says, but the having the baby really doesn't change that much. And I will say I may not have a career, but i do most certainly have a "job" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> }}

Those are his main reasons and I really don't have any others top add as far as why I want more. My reasons are pretty much stated in my rebuttals.
I can add that I have always wanted a large family, at least 5, he knew that when we married. But I compromised at three. At that time I thought I was the only one.

The things I wrote before, well, those are just coping mechanisms to try to accept the decision HE has made regarding not having anymore kids, in which he has said now isn't going to happen. I am angry, resentful, hurt. I try to find positives in it but every time a person close to me gets pg I want what we missed out on so badly. I have been trying to channel it into other areas, but it still is so raw. He says I could have a baby with anyone, I don't want anyones baby, I want to share it with him. He just doesn't understand that.

Well thats it. Let me know if you had a chance to talk to your wife about channeling the energy, cuz if it works for her I would love to know how she did it! It is great advice, but real hard to implement, for me at least.
Have a great weekend!
NGU

Hey Not Giving Up,

I was reading your last response and was hoping I could find something that I could respond back to that would help you in some way. I don't have a lot that I can assimilate your situation to mine.

Issues about affairs I can't even comment on. My wife and I have never fallen victim to that. I have a younger brother who is divorcing my SIL who I love very much. He fell in love with someone else while having an affair. 3 kids now have to split time with Mom and Dad. Terrible thing to happen.

I myself take pride in the fact that I do spend an incredible amount of time raising our kids. I love being with them and I'm involved in every aspect of their life. That is what makes another child difficult. I don't get to spend enough one-on-one time with my kids now. You know how much kids at this age demand your attention.

I, too, would like doing more toddler related activities and get away from the baby syndrome. My wife is very attached to our babies. Nursing, holding them while they nap, having them sleep next to her so she can nurse without moving them. Those things really put a crimp in doing a lot of activities. That and she really doesn't like to do those kinds of things while the children are so young. Me, I wouldn't mind, but I don't want to pressure her. So I'm abiding my time until she feels comfortable doing those things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4)How come everytime he begins to make more $, I want to make it so that it is either impossible to move ahead, or that I want to put us in the positon, again, of not having the extras. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this really how he states to you how he feels? I think it is quite rude the way he says it. Like your responsible for spending all his money. I would assume your not purposely trying to spend more so you can't move ahead.

How are you two doing as a couple? Is it possible part of his reasoning for not wanting more because he's not real pleased with your relationship? How much does it bother you that he's only around about 1/4 of the time? Are kids your replacement in his absence?

I placed my relationship struggles on the top of my list of WHY NOT TO's. I don't think we should be bringing in more burden to our relationship until we fix us. That's not to say we're in a real bad position. We've actually been doing a lot better these last 4 or 5 weeks. We don't have a hostile relationship so we don't fight. We are getting better at opening up when obvious issues come up. In the past we'd both ignore it and try to live with the issue. That isn't working for me nor do I think she thinks its working for her.

Don't worry about not getting back real quick. These issues aren't going away overnight and I'm always dropping in on this site to read and reply to posts.

You have a great weekend too.

Hi all...I am new here...just stumbled upon this site this morning. Some statistics of me...married for 10 years this year, 3 kids...ages almost 9, 7, and almost 4. The "baby" issue started with my husband after we were married. I was 19 when we got married, he was 26. he had known I wanted a lot of kids...I came from a big family and children are what I consider a gift of God...a true miracle and something I had always invisioned for myself. We were married in 1993, and I had my first baby girl a month before I turned 20 in June of 1994, my second little girl in January of 1997...both times we were not "trying", but we were both exicted about having a baby. I also found out after having my first child and going on birth control...I am one of the 1 in a million women who are allergic to birth control..yes...it DOES happen, no joke. I grew tumors up and down my legs, had surgery on both legs to remove the tumors and then wound up having to be on steroid therapy when I was finally diagnosed with a severe allergy. My husband had always told me until then that he believed it would be "cruel to deny me children"...he knew I wanted a lot of kids when we dated, and after we married and had the 2 girls, he never said a word about not wanting anymore. Then everythign changed...in 1998, I got pregnant again...this time a couple months into the pregnancy, I miscarried. Our marriage really started crumbling then. My husband was SO INCREDIBLY unsupportive...he used THIS time of all times to say that "it was meant to be"..."we are not meant to have more kids"...and added in the fact he was considering a vasectomy. I was 24 years old, he was 31. I thought that was about the cruelest thing he could say to me right then. I will admit, after going to the doctor, and crying my eyes out after the sonogram showed that indeed the pregnancy was lost...she told me that sometimes it is helpful to get pregnant again as quickly as possible to help your emotions. That is if your husband is okay with it too. I admit, I begged my husband...and he flat out refused to try for a 3rd child then. I was a wreck...I felt so alone then...even had my MIL tell me that I probably caused the miscarriage becasue I had been working in the yard the day before. I blamed myself, and felt I had nobody to lean on during that time. My husband did see me hurting and gave in...and we got pregnant...this time we had a boy...and my husband thought it was the neatest thing. He had wanted a son each time we found out we were expecting, and they are both very close. So in the end he told me he was glad he gave in and decided to try for another child immediately...or he wouldn't have his little boy. Problems arrised about a year after he was born. My husband brought up the vasectomy again, this time out of nowhere threating divorce if I didn't let him do it. I was 25, he was 32. I told him that was a HUGE decision for us to make so young...why did he want to do this NOW. After all, he was in control of the "babies"...being in charge of the birth control in our situation. There would be no babies if he didn't agree to them after all, so I didn't understand the urgency. Well, he came home that day hateful and dead serious that if I didn't sign the papers imeediately, he was divorcing me. I was torn...on one hand, I loved my husband and while I didn't like the way he was going about tihs decision, I also didn't want a divorce. I went to the appointment and cried in the waiting room. He was FURIOUS with me saying I must not love him in the car all the way home. I signed those papers and let me tell you, just 2 weeks after I did, he sat me down and told me he didn't love me, never loved me, and wanted out. I was never so hurt in my entire life. I was blindsided by this. He moved out and in with his mother...our kids were torn, and my oldest daughter was having a TON of trouble coping and going to school. I finally got him to agree to come home and try to work things out...after all I did what he wanted, why was he still mad at me? He came home, only made it a month before he left again...saying he didn't love me and that he could "co-habitate" with me...and share a bed, home, etc...but he had no feelings for me. Well, that statement alone is about the biggest slap in the face a woman can hear. "I don't love you, but I'll sleep with you..." is about all that means. He moved out, the next morning I filed for divorce. I was devastated...I was raised in a Christian home, was a God fearing woman, very easy going and very quiet...but I could NOT get along with my own husband. He was raised in a home with a mother who just recently divorced her 10th husband, he never knew his real dad until he was in his 20s, and the father that adopted him was an abusive alcoholic from the time he was 18 months old, until he was like 16 years old. I knew that dealing with my husband was a HARD CHORE at times...but he was so irrational lately then, I had no idea what this man was thinking during this time, or if he was cheating on me or what. Well, about a month later he went with his BIL to a church he was working construction on...my husband had a reality check while he was there he says. When he walked in he said that he looked up and realized where he was...it wound up being the same church he had been saved at as a young teen...and he found himself he said weeping openly on his knees and his BIL came over and prayed with him. He called me up the next day and literally begged me for another chance...he wanted to come over that night. I let him come over, but I was scared...I didn't want to let this person hurt me anymore like I had been hurt...I didn't know whether to believe what he had said, or what he was saying now. I gave in and let him stay on the condition that he would go to counseling with our pastor....which we did together. I learned a lot about my husband then. We are doing great now, but every now and then I have a twang of pain over that decision to sign those papers. I am turning 29 in a couple months, my youngest starts kindergarten next year and I feel like I had something taken away from me by my husband. Not so much the act of having children...although I do wish I could have 1 or 2 more...just the fact that I never was allowed to come to a decision that this was "right" for us. I wish I could of had time to come to an agreement WITH HIM emtionally...after all, like I said, birth control was HIS area since I am allergic, so nothing would of happened unless he had wanted it too at that time. I just wish I could of come to the decision in my own time and felt GOOD about signing those papers instead of it literally being FORCED down my throat...which with a threat of divorce if you don't sign this week, you can't get much more forceful can you!?!?! I guess what I am saying is I can respect my husband's desire for no more kids...but there needed to be a mutual respect for me to come to that decision as well and not having it forced upon me. I still have trouble looking at my husband at times and not resenting him for that BIG TIME. It is hard not to...but I try not to...I do. Reading this entire post this morning...I am crying....cause the pain is STILL there after 3 years, and it is VERY deep.

Please proceed cautiously, and take each others feelings into consideration...each view is valid, and to treat it like it doesn't matter or is stupid or unreasonable is SOOO hurtful....

(SORRY so long!....)

Micpac,

Sorry to hear about your pain. I can certainly relate to what your going through with what I see in my W and her emotions/desires. I have been very respectful of her wants and haven't told her at any time in the last 9 months that she's been asking for more kids that I flat out won't have anymore.

That doesn't mean I haven't made up my mind I just make sure when we talk about it I explain to her how I feel and don't try to make the choice or threaten her to get my way. I certainly don't want a divorce. To me that is so drastic I would only do that as a last resort.

I love my W and I love a lot of things about my life as they are right now. It is just this one issue that we can't both agree on that is causing us pain and is inhibiting us from being real close to each other. We are working on our relationship and trying to regain some of our love but I think until we resolve this issue we are going to have some bumps in the road.

It's a shame your H had to have a moving experience after he'd already had the V. It is nice to hear people's experiences where, at least a good portion of these experiences, have a nice ending.