That's pretty much what I've left it up to. Still trying to get used to being in His light. Right now, I know I'm probably being unrealistic but He has performed many miracles in his time. Thanks again almost.

UPDATE: I spoke to my wife today. Had to contact her because some bills need to be paid and I wasn't sure what our arrangements were. As far as that's concerned, she's willing to continue to pay what she's been paying for.

We started to talk more about our marriage and I actually got her to open up a little. I got her to tell me what she's so upset about. Basically, she was a Giver and I was a Taker. In her view, she thought that we discussed it. In my view, we argued and the next day, we just blew it off, case closed. I never took the time to actually understand what was REALLY going on.

So now, she's in the withdrawal stage and I'm in the conflict stage. I'm trying to slowly lure her into the conflict stage so some negotiation can start. The thing is, she's still SO angry that it's coating her real feelings. I can tell by the way she talks. "I'm not going to be in anymore relationships after us." "I'm at peace being alone." All that but she'll still pay for her share of the bills, care for our dog and still call me "Honey" in that very conversation? I know that there is love in her deep down inside. No one can resist that feeling. It's a gift from God, how can you? I believe that her decision for divorce is a result from her being angry and her experience in handling past relationships. If it (relationships) fail, run far, far away (withdrawal stage).

So my question is what else can I do to get her from the withdrawal stage and into the conflict stage? My quest has just begun and I've made the focus her and her needs. I'm going to also have her open up more to let all the negative feelings out. Harboring them just makes things worse and can mask her real feelings. Any other tips?

Bubba,
If you're up to it, letting her get the negative stuff out will help bunches. Then she might feel like you understand a little bit about what she's been going through.
As for how to go about it - how did you get her to talk the first time? What did you guys talk about as far as your marriage goes? Maybe all you need to do is the same thing again. Sometimes a lot of layers of feelings are there on one thing and just have to be peeled off.


By the way - remember what I told you about the truth, being honest - see when you both are honest look at the progress that starts coming around.

By the way, sorry I haven't been reading and posting recently - life's kind of tough right now. I just got home from Auburn about an hour ago- my son just got married - and there's already a baby on the way. I'm gonna be a "granny" in about 8 mos, I'm single - 38 and it's all kind of stressing me out. It wouldn't be as bad but just last night I had someone tell me they didn't want any commitment in a relationship and it's someone I've cared about for the past 5 mos., so I've got to get over that too.
Hope things keep looking up for you! Wish I'd have had an H as dedicated to getting things right as you are. My H built the walls and then wasn't willing to accept it or the responsibility for bringing the walls down. H wouldn't even post with Dr. Harley (which is actually the only reason I have this computer now).

Anyway, sounds like you're doing a great job so far! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Keep up the good work!

Becki

Becki - Sounds like you're dealing with what I'm dealing with. My wife and her walls. Her anger/resentment is so intense that she is convinced that she's better off without me so she refuses to bring the walls down at all. Since my last post, we've had 1 GREAT conversation only because I actually poured my heart out to her. After that talk, I did most of the talking, I just felt enlightened. I believe that it was the hand of God touching me. After 39 years, that was probably the best feeling that I've had.

However, the next day was not so good. We talked about her wanting to get another cel phone, ours are on the same account. She told me that was her way of leaving it all behind. I, unfortunately, engaged her and it was me begging and her dominating. It was horrific. Later the same day, she called to return a call I made after the horrific conversation. I asked for a copy of her final pay stub for 2004 so I could start working on our taxes. This time I approached the same cel phone issue differently. I pretty much just obliged her and tried to accomodate her as best as I could.

My thinking was all the trivial things that she's doing should not be my focus. The thing is that those things were really disturbing me. I was letting it affect me emotionally.

So, as of now, I'm just going to leave her alone and try not to contact her unless it's an absolute emergency.

She continues to come to the house as she pleases. Yesterday, I noticed that some more of her things were taken. This is after I've politely asked twice to let me know if she comes by the house for anything.

From the outside looking in, it looks really bleak. Her emotions are so intense that she's not able to look past her anger. When we last talked, I asked her what I could do to win her back. Of course, she's not gonna give me that privledge so she said "nothing".

From my perspective, I'm gonna do everything I can to break down that wall of anger. I told her that I'm not even going to consider D until she makes a decision when she's in a state of mind like when we first fell in love. I said that if she still wants to D, then I'd respect her decision.

In our "GREAT" conversation, I told her how I've had a self-realization. How most of my life, I've been raised to disregard how others felt and was more concerned with life around me and how it affects me. I was selfish. I told her how bad I felt that she had to live with that person. That among other things. I think it touched her that day. BUT, the next day was different.

Anyway, so starts another day wishing my wife were here. Yesterday was so BORING. If it wasn't for the Chargers game, I'd have gone stir crazy.

Thanks for listening/reading...

Bubba, I know what you mean about going stir crazy. That's one I deal with just about every day that passes.
Just this morning I woke up and felt horrible. Right now I'm struggling witha lot of "self-hate" issues and the things going on around me are not helping. And from some of "his" behavior, it seems like he deals with some of the same issues. The big difference between us is in the way we deal with it.
I know the last time we were together I asked him what he liked and he said, "If you like it, I like it." I said I'd like to have him show me what he likes; so he did. That was a first.
It seems like every time we get a litle closer, he pulls away harder.
We both told each other a long time ago we were each scared, but I wonder if that was just a line from him. I don't know. All I know is each time an opportunity arises when there isn't a crowd around we'll make contact somehow. I've refused to come to him anymore. Last time he broke the ice. But then, Friday Charlie went to him and told him how I felt and he said he didn't want any commitment. I know he's got a lot on his mind with his dad being pretty bad off and him and his sister having to take over the family business, Plus he takes care of lots on the farm. A mutual friend told me that he seemed to have enough going on that he didn't have room for a relationship. I don't know for sure. I know that when it comes to that type of relationship, he's not a risk taker, with anyone. He doesn't date anyone.
Plus my son told me that he probably is scared, that our age difference is a big one for him to deal with. Even though others I know have had larger age differences, that still worries me. So I guess I can understand some of it.
Anything you can see from the outside in? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
There's more to it than just a physical thing I know, just from some of the things he has said. He's told me not to listen to things others have said, when I get irritated with myself while we're playing pool, he lets me know he does too and then tells me that I'm getting better. So even if it's nothing more than friendship, he does care. He just won't open on up and take any risks.
Sorry I posted on your thread, but your opinion was the one I wanted to hear.

I don't know what else to say with your wife. Just like I said before, there are a lot of layers built up - kind of like an onion. And one thing that Dr. Harley told me once, " Rome wasn't built in a day".
KEEP HANGING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Good luck,
Becki

After a good day, my wife called me unprovoked to give me her new cel #, I just blew it to you-know-what.

I got our shared cel phone bill today and noticed alot of calls to an unfamiliar #.

I called her on it. Sure as the sun rises, she becomes upset. After explaining that it was "someone" she was talking to, a co-worker, for advice, she originally denied talking to anyone, she just blew it. She accused me of spying on her, a jealous husband and continually urged that the D WAS going to take place.

I just couldn't hold it in. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do but I thing I just blew all my chances right out of the water. She says that the guy was telling her to go to counseling, blah-blah-blah. It was all a blur because, everything that this guy was giving her is the same opportunities that I wanted. I told her that I wasn't upset that she called him but I was upset that I didn't have the priveledge as her husband to discuss our matter with her. No matter what I said, she refused to budge and give me any credit. Of course not, because now I was the "bad guy" for wondering why our bill was $30 higher than usual and "spying" on her.

Question: In the midst of preparing for what seems to be an eventual D, what kind of indicator is the fact that my WW still chooses to call me affectionate names and reciprocates "I love you"? Is it a courtesy or does she really mean it?

The confusion stems in the fact that, although no formal papers have been filed, we are carrying on with selling the condo, finding the dog a new home, serperating property, etc.

I don't get it.

I did not read all the prior pages to this post, just the first page.

I am confused.

If you don't want your relationship to end, why are you acting like it is? (dividing up stuff, etc). Seems like a bit of a mixed message.

Your wife is saying she loves you (possibly rote), but also preparing for the big D. Seems like a mixed message.

So 2 mixed messages make a what? I don't know, but it sure seems like you oughta find out. One way would be to stop preparing for separation.

Jaye - How am I supposed to deal with a wife that does not want to go thru any counseling, has moved out of our home, hardly ever calls me, spends zero time with me, gives me no feed back when we do talk about our issues and has declared that all she wants is a divorce?

I'm not in a position to change her mind, never was, never will be. I have tried that approach. Don't do it. It'll never work.

SO, my final solution is to give her what she wants. Let it be known that she dictates what happens. Through all this, if it is something that I don't want to do, I will wait until she brings it up and will happily oblige. Although I'm biting my tongue thru all we do, at least the mood is cordial.

Trying to change her mind is like telling her, "Your way is wrong. You're wrong. You should listen to what I have to say because I'm always right."

Hope that clears up your confusion. If you think you have a better approach, by all means post it up here. I can probably bet you that I've already tried it and it's useless in my case.

<small>[ January 18, 2005, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Bubba6453 ]</small>

Hi Bubba.

I read through this entire thread, and the only thing I can tell you is that it does sound very much (to me) like your wife may have feelings for someoene else.

I would suggest that you edit some of your posts to condense your story into one post, adn move it over to Emotional Needs... The "conflict" board is not visited so much, and you need others to comment on your situation.

There are people over there who have been working with Dr. Harley's principles for many many years.

It sounds like you are doing many things right, and still could use some help.

I would advise you (in addition to posting on the Emotinal Needs section of this board) to read through everything you can on this site.

Good luck, Bubba.