Current situation: Wife times me going to work and coming home and dropping kids off. She argues with me about how long it takes to get to places, then accuses me of meeting up with someone. When I suggest to her to listen to the radio and find out about traffic delays or look on a traffic web site or ask someone who commutes the same routes, she says she shouldn't have to. Then I say, if you really think I am cheating on you, I will take a lie detector test.
She then says they are not accurate, I then say, hire a detective, and her come back is, I shouldn't have to.

The Facts

I have never cheated on her, nor she on me. She is very insecure, possibly due to having an alcholic father who died when she was 14. Though
she would never admit that that was an influnce at all.

She brings up things in our past (married 19 years) all the time. I will admit to having said things many years ago in the heat of an arguement,but who has not?

Enol,
I am not an expert by any means but I am a woman with some insecurities of my own, and I just think your wife is revealing her insecurity. It could be the feeling of fear of being abandoned or fear of neglect.

What I would like from my H is a quiet moment away from the stress of the day, with his arms around me to say (in a loving way...not argumentative nor with condemnation) that "I love you and I will take care of you always. You don't have to worry about me leaving because the woman of my dreams in right in front of me." Men think this is a cheesy thing to say, but you will be amazed that those simple words speaks volumes to a woman with insecurity issues.

Women have to be reminded over and over that they are valid to their H. I told my H that whenever a woman asked their lover if she looks fat in a dress, she knows what she looks like. She can see for herself in the mirror. What she is really asking you if she is still as beautiful and desirable to you as the day you first courted. My H always feared me asking those kind of questions to him, so I tried not to bring it up.

Love her and hold her. It will take time, but eventually she will release those fears. Also, tell her that fear and doubt only creates havoc.

You have the chance to hold her, whereas some of us in MB don't have that opportunity (I've been in Plan B for almost 4 months now), so steal every moment to appreciate her.

Good luck,
Nomoregames

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nomoregames:
<strong> Enol,
I am not an expert by any means but I am a woman with some insecurities of my own, and I just think your wife is revealing her insecurity. It could be the feeling of fear of being abandoned or fear of neglect.

What I would like from my H is a quiet moment away from the stress of the day, with his arms around me to say (in a loving way...not argumentative nor with condemnation) that "I love you and I will take care of you always. You don't have to worry about me leaving because the woman of my dreams in right in front of me." Men think this is a cheesy thing to say, but you will be amazed that those simple words speaks volumes to a woman with insecurity issues.

Women have to be reminded over and over that they are valid to their H. I told my H that whenever a woman asked their lover if she looks fat in a dress, she knows what she looks like. She can see for herself in the mirror. What she is really asking you if she is still as beautiful and desirable to you as the day you first courted. My H always feared me asking those kind of questions to him, so I tried not to bring it up.

Love her and hold her. It will take time, but eventually she will release those fears. Also, tell her that fear and doubt only creates havoc.

You have the chance to hold her, whereas some of us in MB don't have that opportunity (I've been in Plan B for almost 4 months now), so steal every moment to appreciate her.

Good luck,
Nomoregames </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Enol, I totally agree with nomoregames. Being myself married for 18 years, I can tell you with absolute surity that women don't get tired of hugs, kisses and 'I love Yous' That is the fuel that keeps them go the extra mile. Do that, even at times when she gives you the cold shoulder...she is just testing you and your love...she needs you the most when she shows strongly that she wants to keep away from you or acts 'B....Y". )Sorry, can't find any other one-word for that thing I too go thru at times)
ANA

ana

I think you hit it on the head.... but from a guys point of view. There is something Enol is not saying something...

Nick

Nick, not sure what you think I am not saying????

The first two posts were great, but to be honest, it will be hard to be loving when someone is questioning your fathfulness (anger creeps in).

Another example would be it takes 15 minutes to drop my daughter off at school, today it took 19 minutes. I come home to my wife saying, was there an accident? She says this while my 3 year old is toddling around, and my 13 year old is getting ready for me to then drop him off.

My question to her, so your going to yell and complain about an extra 4 minutes?? She didn't want to hear about the 2 lights that we sat in waiting to turn onto the road. But I guess that is irrelivant, what she wants to hear is, is that i love her and would never do anything to change that feeling??? Right now my love bank has got a negative balance in it!

Since she is unsatisfed with how you do the "dropping off", I would defer it to her then.

I wouldn't time her, I wouldn't point out "See, it too you 18min 27 seconds to do it", that's not the point.

Secondly, stop responding to the criticism, it only feeds the problem. It may be difficult at first, and it may make her angry, but it keeps *you* from saying things you shouldn't, or from contributing to the escalation of the argument.

You don't need to justify or rationalize your behavior when you didn't do anything wrong.

Jaye, thanks for the idea. I had already suggested that she take the kids to school, but since she is taking care of the three year old that is her excuse. If she would take the kids to school, I would avoid the morning rush hour traffic, and the afternoon rush hour traffic. One good thing, is, there is a traffic sensor program that shows accidents, traffic slow downs and traffic speeds and travel times. It will also email you a report. But I know all this is not addressing the real issue, the issues of trust and insecurity. And it seems the more you try to point out logical realites the further she struggles to move away from the facts.

Like for example, one day it took almost an hour to make it in to work (13 miles away). Reason?
3 car accident on the freeway. I printed out the
Highway patrol online incident report and brought it home. Her response? It does not take that long for a 3 car accident. But you are right, making comments just fuels the fire, but I have noticed that it also can make her even more mad, as if she wants to communicate even if it is accusing and yelling. To not communicate can cause her to make even more accusations.

Enol

I think the real issue is being missed here. I don't think it's about the time it takes you at all. Something else is happening here for her.

Would she consider counselling to find out what the real issue is. I think it is more about her than you.

2b

2bhappy -

We went to two different MC's the first was a guy, who we both did not like. He would say things like, "Oh you know you should never tell a woman this or that"

The second was a woman who seemed to make matters worse rather that better, We would argue over and over in the sessions.

It was funny but we both agreed that both MC's were crappy.

In the counsiling sessions, I feel she never got down to uncovering her root unhappyness and I feel she may never.

Some reading this post may say, whoa, what about you? I am a pretty easy going guy, not much upsets me, was raised in a 2 parent family, Dad left after 25 yrs of marriage. On that point I learned what the phrase the sins of the father are visitied on the son as I always am compared to him and his transgressions.

She was raised with a father who preferred to be on the streets drinking and coming home occasionally to sober up. Was in prison for robbing a store, died when she was 14. Of course all of this is watered down by her and her family. When I met her at the age of 17, her mother would stay at her boyfriends house weeknights and come home in the morning before work to get ready. On the weekends she would stay home. This too is played down. She will say things like "Oh, we didn't want her there anyways". Her family (siblings) are so at ease in acting like that was not problem at all. But from their current family histories anyone can tell that is not the truth. I am not trying to imply that I am perfect or better, I am not, I have no problem pointing things out in my upbringing that cause me problems (did that once and she uses it in fights). What even worse is the fact that if she is tired or its that time of the month, she gets really out there with her accusations (its a sister,coworker,neigboor).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Enol:
<strong> Jaye, thanks for the idea. I had already suggested that she take the kids to school.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I woulnd't suggest it, I would just do it. She is manipulating you, and you're allowing it to happen, and until you establish a boundary, the same old game will continue.

Taking care of the 3 year old isn't a reason to avoid it, she can bundle him up and put him the car along with the rest of the brood.

Logic and reason are not weapons in the arsenal in this case. People are not looking to be calm and rational. If they were, you wouldn't be having the discussion.

People/manipulators use anger and vileness as a way to provoke actions and responses. I'm sure that part of it traces directly back to the issues with her Dad.

Be that as it may, it is not an excuse to treat you poorly, and her treating you poorly is not an excuse to respond in kind.

Until there is a stop (on both parties parts) to the mutual mudslinging (this includes things like digging up the past and stuff), very little of the dynamics of the relationship will change.

You can't stop her, but you can stop contributing.

My relationship with my W was a disaster, until my W summoned up the courage to put a stop to my manipulating her. It unsettled me enough and rocked me back on my heels, and in the process brought around real change, to where the relationship is great.

But it took that one person drawing the line and saying I will not accept any more abuse/yelling/screaming/emotional blackmail/call it what you will.

I am not advocating cold shoulder treatment, I am not advocating a shirking of responsibilities. You will still have to treat your W with resepct, even as you establish the boundaries that tell her tha ther behavior towards you is unacceptable.

The tongue is the most difficult body part to control. But master it, and everythign else is much easier.

YOu may want to get a copy of HNHN and look through it as well. There may be things you can do that will help, but I would start with the above. Baby steps.