Had contact w/OM. He’s calling tomorrow. Help me say something I can live with.<P>Today I got and “instant message” (while on-line) from OM. If you recall, last week I freaked out and had to force myself to hate him (so I could make a step toward not loving him anymore). Anyway, in order to do that I had to visualize him with another woman. I had to force myself to imagine that he had completely forgotten about me and moved on. Well, while he hadn’t moved quite that far along, but he did, just last week, meet a woman that he was interested in dating. He wrote this in his instant message:<P>“My dear FC, <BR>An opportunity has come up for me to share dinner with a woman. Let me assure you, my sweet that, I don’t want any woman, other than you. But, you have told me, time and again, that you are not leaving your H right now). If you are not going to leave H, if you are not going to unite OUR family, then I’ve got to take this step toward recovery. I assure you, I’d rather be with you and our son, but if you will not be with me, I’ve got to get myself together, get back into life and get back into dating. It is the only road to recovery for me. You know I’ll wait forever for you and S if you can give me reason to do so, FC. So, I am asking you, before I take this step away from you, can you, WILL YOU, please give me reason to wait? If you will not, I need to take this one small step toward recovery from the last several months of sheer misery.”<BR>-OM<P>Well, I (like a stupid [censored]) freaked out and replied by saying, <BR>OM<BR> “Lest I disconnect, and leave you feeling as if you've been "hung up on" I think I'll just say I'm sorry that I’ve caused you "sheer misery" I'd like to believe there were a few moments that were not entirely "misery." As for the date, well I just can't take that. I suppose it fits well with the latest letter I wrote to you (one never intended to be sent). I am glad you are doing so well.<BR>-FC<P>I signed off right there and I was livid. I swear I was sick, seeing red and totally unsure of what I was even writing. All I knew what that I couldn’t talk to him or I’d fall apart and start saying evil things or plead with him to not go and to wait for me (totally unfair and it would throw me all the way back to square one).<P>I later sent him an email that said:<P>OM<BR>That news, of the date, while expected (even intuitively known somewhere inside of me) was just difficult for me to hear. In truth and honesty, I cannot offer you a reason to remain “true to me,” for I am married and I cannot say I am leaving H and coming to you. In fact, just last week I was writing to you (another letter never to be sent) about my feelings as you "move on" and my need to deal with that. It brought about an abominable fury within my chest. I wish I had the emotional strength, the selflessness, and maturity today to have simply said, "That is hard for me to hear, but I want you to be happy so I celebrate your newfound companionship." But, God, I just don't have that in me - not right on the spot at least. I am sorry for dropping out of the chat like that, but it just hit me like a dagger. <P>Knowing that I, so to speak, have forced your choice to "move on" does not make it any easier for my heart to hear. You know it was never for a lack of loving you that I chose to let you "go on." As such, news of your "date" and the spinning thoughts of where it may lead, are very painful for me. I don't expect you to wait and pine for me. I expect you to do just as you are, but nothing; absolutely no amount of "expecting" or "understanding" make it easy for me to think about. It is just very hard to take that's all, OM, it hit hard, and it hurt.<P>- FC<P>OM e-mailed and said this:<P>You know, FC, this is not what I wanted. This was never what I wanted. What choice have you given me?<BR>And, FC, as far as the last two and a half years are concerned, the joys we have shared only made the ultimate experience that much more horrific, that much more difficult to deal with. You know that, above all else, I still want to share this life with you and our son. But you won't let that happen. You won’t leave H and come to me.<P>Just what do you think I want, to this very day, more than anything in life, baby? WHAT? WHAT DO YOU THINK I WANT? I want us, baby. I need us. My soul will be forever haunted and stifled as long as you and I and our son are not one whole, TOGETHER! I will never find a woman, FC, who loves, who interacts with me so perfectly as you. l will never find peace in this life, baby, as long my son lives under another roof than my own<P>You know what I want, and you know what you want. And the two ARE THE SAME. Why, baby? Why must our mutual, paramount "want" go unrealized? What do you use, nowadays, to justify keeping our family apart? FC, when I left “fill in state name here” in May, I fully expected you and our child to be close behind me. You made me believe you would be. And when you came back, as the days and weeks passed, and our son turned a year old, and he learned to walk, and he did a million other things which I couldn't see and share, and you began to say that it wasn't going to happen, that we wouldn't be united, that absolutely ripped me in half. "How, how could she say that? How could she do this? How? How? How?" I still ask myself that question every day. I still have no answer.<P>After S's birthday, I lost my mind. I get up each day and try to face a future, which seems so miserably pointless, so hopeless. I am so lost right now, FC. Deprived of you and my son, my little son, I am so utterly deprived of direction and peace. I awoke (very alone, I assure you) at 6:30 this morning and lied there, for two hours, staring blankly at the ceiling, just wishing I could sleep. I just clutched on to my puppy (the only joy in my existence), and wanted to cry but even that relief was forbidden me. I began trying to encourage myself to get out of bed and get ready for church. But I couldn't do it. For years I've walked into churches alone. Last week, I got up and left halfway through the service because I was so damned miserable sitting there alone, without you, among a sea of families-- spouses holding hands, holding their children-- I just can't do it alone. I can’t live looking at happy couples, and beautiful children and wondering how you are, why you are not in my life, and what my own son looks like now. Do you know I look at every little baby and wonder how my own son, with whom I was only allowed to see for 8 days, compares? I feel utterly defeated, baby. I feel so alone apart from you and S.<P>And nothing matters if you're alone. There's nobody to love, nobody to live for, nobody to nurture, quite honestly, from my perspective, no reason to exist if you're alone. <P>And so I ask you, baby, if you feel anything like I do, why do you so adamantly insist that we remain apart, alone? Why, angel? Why? Why? Why? I would do absolutely, absolutely anything in this world to bring us together, FC. You, our son, and I. How do you justify denying the three of us that which alone can bring us peace, can bring love into our world? <P>Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? <BR>Please, FC, tell me what I can do. <BR>Why are you there while I am here? <BR>Why doesn't God help me in some way I can know and understand and feel?<BR>Why isn't S smearing applesauce all over his face in "Our House"?<BR>Why can't I reach out and touch you, just to be immeasurably comforted by your real, physical presence by my side. My gosh, baby, I need that right now worse than any other moment in a long series of very desperate moments.<BR>Why has this happened to us, and what can we do to make it right?<BR>I'm going to try to call you tomorrow.<BR>- OM<BR>_____________________________________________________________<P>Okay, MB friends.<BR>HELP me please? Do I write? Do I answer the phone? What do I do here. How do I help him, how do I help me? How do I do the right thing, and still live with myself? I’m struggling!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by facing choices (edited August 30, 1999).]

FC,<P>I can't believe no one has replied yet, so I will.<P>OK. <P>Here goes.<P>Your OM is playing you like a violin, dear. Is there any reason for him to let you know he's about to start dating, other than to get you jealous? No. <P>He's dangling reconciliation before you like a carrot, and dating in front of you like a stick, and saying "Choose." <P>The fact of the matter is that if you are not going to go with him, he has every right in the world to "move on." You cannot expect him to wait around forever. What he does NOT have the right to do is demonstrate this sort of manipulative behavior, to put a guilt trip on you in a last-ditch attempt to get you to change your mind.<P>Let's just assume that you really meant what you said to him about breaking contact; that there's no way you're going to reconcile with him, regardless of what happens with your H (and I still think that this "deadline" you've placed on your efforts gives you an excuse to not work at it and count days until you can bail, but that's another story). That being the case, he's right -- that the only way for HIM to recover is to move on. He does NOT, however, have to rub your nose in it.<P>Of course, there's the issue of the role you want him to have in his son's life. It sounds like he either wants you and S as a package deal, or neither of you. Are you prepared to face that possibility; of not having him in your S's life? It sounds as if your H is, but I don't know if you are.<P>I wonder why you haven't changed your Instant Message handle...is it possible that you have subconsciously hoping to use it for contact with him? Hoping he'd get in touch with you that way?<P>FC, I may not be the best person to advise you on what to do, but I am an expert on guilt, with a Master's Degree in recognizing it at a thousand paces. And your OM is laying it on with a shovel. No wonder you feel buried.<P>Your OM has some growing up to do. You know, I'm writing this fictional stuff in which a character has an emotional affair with someone much younger (she 29, he 20). I already posted how something you wrote him echoes almost exactly what I wrote my character thinking. And even before I read this in his E-mail to you:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You know what I want, and you know what you want. And the two ARE THE SAME.<BR> Why, baby? Why must our mutual, paramount "want" go unrealized?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>...I had written my character's OM (or OB, as the case may be) saying very much the same thing. And my character replies:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Listen to yourself. Everything with you is 'I want, I want, I want.' You're such a spoiled goddamn child! We don't always get everything we want. Sometimes other things are more important than what we want at any given moment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, yeah, this is fiction, and I haven't been in your shoes. But it's time for your OM to grow up. He can either take the consequences of his action and accept his limited role in your son's life (without you), or he can take his dollies and dishes and go home, sulking and pouting. Frankly, I'm one of those people who thinks that emotional parenthood is more important than biological parenthood, and that your H can be as much a father to your S as OM can. Others disagree.<P>But I will say this: If you're serious about working on your marriage, you are going to have to cut OM loose. Completely. How about this: Can you have some sort of impartial third party agree to keep him informed about S's progress and development, without direct contact between you? If OM wants visitation, can you do it through this third party so you both need not have contact? If this is about him wanting to know about his son and not trying to lure you back, he might agree to it. If this is about using S as a lure, well, you might have to reconcile yourself to the fact that he only wants a relationship with his S on his terms -- and those terms don't work in your life right now.<P>OK, I'll throw this over to the others here who are more knowledgeable about this sort of thing than I am. Guys? Comments? Can you help FC?

FC...Dazed has some good advise. He is playing you like a violin. He also needs some Life 101 lessons, because he doesn't have a clue about life in the real world yet...or some basic Christian ideals. I know your own faith is being tested and you are angry at God right now, but the point is he claims to embrace Christianity, but his actions and assumptions are incongruent. Be wary of anyone that says one thing and lives another...it will show up negatively in all areas of life. This man reminds me of a politician...our president comes to mind.<P>Why must your "want" go unrealized. Hello, your married. Where in the Christian faith does an individual wants (especially sinful wants) come before those of others? Living in joyful service to one another comes to mind...taking another man's wife sounds like breaking a commandment. Yet he questions why your want must go unrealized?<P>But to me, the far the real red flag is the idea that without you he is deprived of direction and peace. If you look at that in a secular context, it is a romantic idea, but the reality is when you look to others for direction and peace you will never find it. If you expect another to fulfil you, you are abdicating responsibility for your own life. And it won't work...because no one CAN give you these things and when the tingly feeling passes and the road in the real world gets rough...a person with these assumptions will look elsewear. If one person fails to complete them, obviously there is something wrong in the relationship or with that other person...therefore one must move on. A person never has to look inward and do the hard work...because they see their significance as external rather than internal...or for a Chistian, eternal. This type of person would most likely be volatile, jealous, manipulative and controlling. How could you not want to manipulate or control the person that is responsible for your significance? Really think about it...you may not see this side of him now when he is trying to win you, but once he thinks of you as "his own" I guarantee you will see this in him and what will start out as a showering of affection and dedication will turn into ugly jealousy, control and anger if you do not comply. And based on how this "true love" began, what chance will there be of him not being jealous or being completely trusting?<P>In a Christian perspective the very idea of direction, peace, significance or anything you label it coming from any source other than from one's faith in God is misguided. You can not have a true faith and look at someone human to give you peace. That is not the role of even a marriage partner. On a side note, many misguided Christian men have the notion that in a marriage the wife's submission gives them a ticket to control. In men that have that tendancy anyway, this is a bad combination. It is also based on ignorance of God's plan.<P>There's no reason to exist if you are alone? <BR>Do you believe this? Do you want to be with anyone who believes this? Does this sound like a strong person of purpose? Does this person sound like someone who wants believe God has a purpose for his life and wants to follow his will? This sounds like a person who has read too many paperbacks with Fabio on the cover.<P>I believe your OM really believes he loves you more than life itself and at least in his mind his intentions are good. But I believe when you scrutinize what your OM says his beliefs and values are vs. his actions, he is a phoney or a hypocrite. What he believes in theory when put into action would crumble in time. He asks why God isn't listening, well maybe it is your OM that is not listening or hearing.<P>FC...you have posted that you are a vibrant free spirit. This man wants to capture you...to contain you..to use him to fill himself. How would this feel? Exciting at first...all consuming...but I can guarantee the excitiment would turn to chains. You would not stand to be sufficated like this after the initial rush of emotions. When you see OM for what he is, you will leave him or want to leave him as you want to leave your H now.<P>You know the right thing to do and you seem to want to want to do the right thing even though you haven't mananged to really want to. Understand that? However, even putting "the right thing" aside...run from this man...he is a siren's song and he will dash you on the rocks.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FC, this is exactly the thing that helped me "get over" the [censored] I thought I loved. When I heard that he had begun dating (while still married, mind you) and even thought he loved this woman, I went crazy. <BR>Yes, it hurt like #$^% believe me. Because I thought it would take a little more time to get over me than THAT, and because I still had a fantasy going that someday we'd cross paths again, both be free, and realize we'd never stopped loving each other .... How "Danielle Steele" huh?<P>Take this and USE it to hate him. Use it to jump back into reality .... it will totally work. I promise. <P>He knows all the things to say to you to make you cave in ... make you go against what you believe in your heart is right (staying with your H).<P>You've made the right choice, FC. Don't let him e-mail you anymore. Block his address. Change yours. But stop the contact. He has given you a perfect reason to do so ... he's getting on with life. He's dating another woman now.<P>

here's what you should say to your om.<BR>meet me at 8 o and don't be late, you know what i like!!<BR>fc, i've been going through this with you for months. i don't know how many but it seems like a long, long time.<BR>i know i told you this a long time ago. have your afair and get over it. i don't think you're going to be able to get past it until you get over it.<BR>i suspect if you had lived your affair it would be over by now. instead, you've had nothig by heartack, frustration, and wasted time. wasted days and wasted nights.<BR>you haven't been any good for your h or yourself. there is not raging river between you and your om. <BR>let me suggest you do the best you can for your boring, loveless husband and, at the same time, be with you om. get some good loving, you desperatly need it. get over your frustration, you'll feel so releaved.<BR>isn't it enticing, the thought of great sex with the man you love!! now go and do it. have some fun. after you get all the loving you want and need, your om will no longer be so important and you can think with a clear head. you haven't had one of those for a long time either. either good luck.

OK...I have to say frankie makes a good point here. I don't agree with him on the action you should take, but he does have human nature nailed on this one.<P>For whatever reason you have been unable to get this guy from under your skin. If you went to him you would have a torrid encounter that would perhaps last for months. Then bit by bit what I outlined in my previous post would creep in and eventually you would get over him. You would have then be in a second relationship that was not working, you would be itching to get your needs met yet again and your son's life would be more unstable than ever.<P>I could be wrong, but I do not think I am.<P>From a secular do what feels good premise, this would be the answer. Your struggle is trying to do what is right. Your roadblock is you haven't convinced your heart to want to do what is right or your emotions to coorperate. Maybe you are one of those people who just have to "go with it" and pick up the pieces later. Maybe you to seek happiness and meaning from the external instead of the internal. Maybe you truly can not let go until you experience it.<P>Maya is also brings up a good point. Her OM may be a lot like your OM. He replaced her because he needs to have that all emcompassing passion. He will keep replacing women as time goes on. Your OM may date for a while until he finds a woman that either will feel sorry for him and make the owie go away or a woman that is a new challenge that he percieves can complete him. He will then turn on you and you will not recognize him because all of his energy which is now directed at you will be redirected at his new relationship.<P>Maya probibly thought her love for OM was "frozen in time" but she got a rude awakening and was able to move forward. What she thought was real was only temporary. She was replaced. <P>What most agree on as they post to you is the idea that your relationship with OM will not be what you envision.<P>The question comes down to if you are capable of thinking that through and commit to moving on, or if you really have to jump in and see for yourself?<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Manipulative? That is the only word I can politely write here. FC, this man has no true interest in YOUR child. Hell he has no concept of the responsibility, costs, LACK of FREEDOM involved with raising a child. This child to him is a Pawn. I can't stand people who use innocent children for their own personal gain.<P>What FHL & DAC wrote is right on the money. I will add a couple of other things that I don't feel you are even considering. You posted some time ago about the Pro's and Con's to staying or leaving, what I recall of your list was 2 very substantial points. <BR>1. He is a full time student and no income<BR>2. You have financial security in your marriage.<P>He is very young and naïve and you seem to be receding back to that age instead of him raising his maturity level to yours. Raising children takes a strong commitment and an even larger restraint on forgoing your wants with for the child's needs.<P>You have been accustomed to a certain lifestyle being with your husband. Once the "Romance" dies with your new lover, life will settle in and believe me, you won't be happy. You'll look around and constantly ask yourself: "What have I done?" Although it is true that money won't buy you happiness, it is a fact of life that we need it to survive. Once accustomed to a certain way of life, being able to go to the movies or shopping or out to dinner when one wants, then going to "We don't have the money!" That in it-self will be the demise of your "Wonderful relationship" with the OM.<P>It's always easier to sit on the outside and see things. All one can do is offer some advise based on what they see. From my seat, you really need to run like hell from this guy. Move on with your life. Make a choice H or OM and then live with it. You're not being fair to anyone least of all yourself. Your H actions alone should tell you something. Perhaps he is quiet and non-commutative, but he hasn't thrown you out and filed for divorce either. That all by it-self shows he does in deed love you and wants to work things out. But I'm not there, I'm not in your shoes so only you can decide what is best for you. You've already admitted to one mistake with having the affair, we are all suggesting that you don't make another by giving a commitment that you won't ever end up sticking with.<P>My advice is not to answer the Phone, do as FHL suggested and get a third party involved as far as being the mediator between you and OM concerning the "Child" only. I guarantee you his desire to be involved in S life will quickly diminish. <P>Take care,<BR>Thoughts and prayers are with you<P>CO<BR>

FC,<P>All I see is entanglement...and obsession. David was obsessed with Bathsheba and he had her husband killed so he could have her...hence Psalm 51. It's been going on since the beginning of time. It's the old sin problem. If you go to him, you end the marriage...and do not know what kind of long term relationship you will have. The sexual passion is what is blinding you to the real characteristics of this man, and it's blinding him.<P>Several have said he needs to grow up...that is a definite truth. Obsession leads us to do stupid things sometimes, but it never pays.<P>Let go FC, let go...sever the tie completely. Make arrangements for visitation through a legal third party if that is what he wants...otherwise, let him go. I know it's the hardest thing to say to you because I can clearly see the confusion.<P>I've walked through confusion before...when your heart is involved...it's difficult to make a choice and follow it with total abandon. Just know that you are still in my prayers...and I am praying that you can get over this and beyond it.<P>God's blessings...<BR>Ramy

Facing Choices,<P>You've gotten lots of wisdom above. One thing I thought about as I read everything is that the "wonderful relationship" you had with OM lacked alot of daily realities, but a BIG reality that it lacked was your son.<P>You know what stresses your son has added to your life. All babies do that. But OM has no idea what kinds of responsibilities come with a child. Think about when you were pregnant. Didn't you have this wonderful idea of what it would be like when your baby was born? (maybe not considering the circumstances, but I think most people do) Then when that child is born and he is a 24/7 responsibility, that perfect little dream bursts. After my first daughter was born I just sat and cried. All the sudden hit with a HUGE responsibilty. It took my H about 3 years to finally become responsible for her. It will be no different for OM. Right now he thinks you 3 can have a perfect little life. But what happens when he is hit with the responsibilty of your son? OM has NO IDEA. No one does until taking care of a baby 24 hours a day. There is no way possible that his "dream" of you guys being together will be as wonderful as both you and him think it will.<P>As far as what to tell him (I think that was the point of your post), just don't! Don't answer the phone, don't e-mail, either change your icq or hang up if he sends you something (without reading it)! He is hurting you, making you feel quilty for following the wishes of God, using your son to get something (you) that does not belong to him.<P>FC, STOP letting him hurt you and control your thoughts and feelings. YOU are a good person, you just need some strength to completely turn away from OM. Only then will you be able to find TRUE happiness. God bless you!<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Yes, like Faith said, I GOT REPLACED!<P>And YOU'VE been replaced. Remember that .... and let it make you mad enough not to talk to him again.<P>Let it make you mad enough that "you're gonna show him" and make your marriage something beautiful.<P>Let it make you made enough that when he crosses your mind all you can see is him sitting across the table from a gorgeous woman, saying all the things he said to you. And he will be saying all the same things ... <P>Let it make you mad enough that you look at your H and thank God for giving him to you!

I have nothing to add but to say that the wisdom I've seen written here blows my mind. Dazed, FHL, Maya, couelle, Ramy, Shoni, and even 'shock value frankie'- (I agree with FHL you do have human nature nailed though I too don't agree with the purposed action)<BR>Thanks to each of you for helping others learn here too. I know I did today...<P>FC,<BR>You will get through this. Refiners fire is where you are, purest gold is what you have on the other side, you KNOW God sees the end result. HE IS NEVER WRONG. Never.<P>take care,<BR>janet

COME ON, FC ....<P>TALK TO US ... LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!<P>

Okay, we just got off of the phone and now I'm running late for work.<BR>I knew I was going to take the call, if for nothing else but to force myself to tell him, face to face so to speak, that I was not leaving H.<P>It was a three hour phone call. No new news really. He asked me if I had changed my mind about H and OM. He told me how much it hurts to be away from S and me, and that he thinks the three of us belong together. He said he wanted to move to my state and city. He said he could be here in a week, and that if I file for divorce that he will move here and leave everything behind. <P>I said that I hadn't changed my mind and that I had no spiritual peace in leaving H. I told him (as FLH suggested) that OM lacks direction in his life and that offers no security for me, as a mother of a young child. I told him H and I are "working" on our marriage. He said "I know what that means, FC. That means you want him to change and he won't (hit the nail on the head). That means that you SAY you are working on it, but you don't love him with your heart. FC, you are one messed up woman (anyone care to disagree?) and I love you. <P>He said that the woman he went out with was just a "fill in" for me and a that she offered a diversion to his day. He said that there are not plans or intentions for anther date with her (who knows if that is true, I believe him, but it doesn't really matter to me). He said that he loves and wants me and that if I won't go to him I leave him no choice but to try and date. I think he's right - what other options does he have. <P>I also asked him to please stop shifting his guilt to me and to accept the responsibility of not knowing S. I reiterated that I will never prevent that relationship and that he has no contact with S because that is OM's choice. He reiterated that, for him, it is a package deal (both S and I, or neither). <P>We agreed that there cannot be any more contact between us, but he then said that he wants to see me. Then he and I agreed that seeing each other would be wrong and unhealthy.<BR> <BR>We talked about our Christian faith and both admitted that we are in the darkest period we've ever been in. He, at least, is still attending Bible study, Sunday services, and meeting regularly with his pastor. I haven't put a toe in a church in 3 months (for which H is gleeful as he can sleep in on Sundays).<P>Like I said, there isn't anything new. I do not feel worse or better for the call. I don't feel as if I have stepped back in w/d (I never came out). I fully intend to tell H about the call. <P>I appreciate all of your support today! I was very empowered by it and encouraged to not talk about a future with OM. <P>I am going to specifically address your posts, but I've got to rush to work now as I "wasted" so much time on the phone and am now paying the price. I promise that I will write back and I DEEPLY appreciate all of your words of wisdom. Believe me, I was much stronger for having your words than for not. W/O your posts (today and many others in the past), I'd be packing my bags and moving to . . . well, let's just say it "ain't coastal and the necks turn pretty red there" in the state where OM lives. Not an easy transition for this - well, "Golden stater."<P>

FC, <P>I see I got here a little late, but I don't think I could have added any to what advice had already been given. <P>I'm proud of you. I'm glad you stayed strong to your convictions. The spiritual peace you mentioned is of the utmost importance. God WILL honor you for valuing your marriage. I know you are unequally yoked at this time and hopefully your H will become the spiritual leader that you desire for your family. <P>No marriage is perfect - by any means. But, I know if you keep trying, God will eventually open your H's eyes to help him see the wonderful lady he was given. It has taken me a long time to really see the value of my W. She never gave up on me evethough I was as thick headed as your H is. FC, I pray the same for you. Hold on, keep trying, never give up. The floodgates will open and your cup will overflow - it has to. <P>Luke 6:38<BR>Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you allot it shall be measured to you again.<P>God bless you.<P>SHA

FC,<P>As hard as it was, I'm proud of you too...let's hope you can hold to your resolve. <P>God's blessings!<BR>Ramy

Nice work, FC. I'm proud of you. You were strong, and you did good.<P>FC, the best thing you can do for everyone right now is really throw yourself into this marriage. PLEASE, PLEASE go out and get the Susan Page book discussed in another thread. I think it will help you a lot. The Harley stuff is good, but it's not the only show in town.<P>That OM only wants contact with his son if you are part of the package shows what a spoiled child he is. "MY way or no way" is his modus operandi. I think you would find that wearing very thin over time.<P>Don't let this guy throw Christianity at you either. I'm not a Christian, but it seems to me that what you call Satan can appear in many disguises -- including a Christian one. You have to know enough about your faith and enough about what's right to know a lie when you see it.<P>When I was a kid, a friend of mine was murdered by her father in a high profile case. He thought his family was straying from God and felt that "sending them to heaven" was delivering them from their wayward ways. It sounds crazy, and it is, but I can see where something malevolent -- call it Satan if you want -- dressed itself up as something Godly, appeared before this man and told him this was the right thing to do. And he was unable to recognize what was behind the disguise.<P>I think you see my point.<P>We're all here for you.

FC,<P>You did a good job. Be proud of yourself for that. You are growing through all of this, remember that.<P>I think the OM only wanting son if he can have you also makes the point I was trying to make. He really has no clue as a father. He is only concerned with his selfish needs. When he speaks of love for your son, it is a lie. His love is simply for you and he is willing to use his own flesh and blood as a game to get you back.<P>Stay strong and keep working with H. God really can perform miracles, if you let Him! <P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Great job. You stayed strong. Two things.<BR>When OM said his definition of working on it and you agreed that you were trying to change H. He may need some work, but change yourself...a relationship can not remain the same even if only one initiates their own change. When your relationship is stable, he may surprise you. <P>The second is what others said. He may be bio dad, but your H is the real dad. How dare he call you a family. A man that would use a baby as a pawn...all or nothing...doesn't have a clue what a family really is.<P>Could you imagine putting your relationship on the line with your son in the same way?<P>I'm sure you would not.<P>You have made the right choice.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FC,<BR>Just my 2 cents...<BR>Any man that would say the only way he wants contact with his son is with you, is no dad. He was a sperm donor. I would not trust my son with such a selfish man. He is only worried about his own desires. You know first hand that being a parent means letting go of your own desires for the best interest of your child.<BR>LET HIM GO!!!! HE IS POISON. "Forbidden fruit gets us into many jams."<BR>Change your screen name.<BR>Use caller ID.<BR>AVOID HIM LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!!!<BR>You are on your way to healing. Don't let him reinfect the wound.<BR>We all love you here. Listien to the advice you've been given by the others. It is strong medicine.<BR>Sara<BR>

FC, <BR>The only thing I wanted to say is I admire you! Hearing those things from a man you loved is so hard to do! You obviously are being led by the Spirit to remain in your marriage (I've said it before, God HATES divorce)and are ignoring the prodding of Satan telling you that happiness awaits in the arms of the OM. <P>I know what you mean about not attending church...I haven't been able to really go and not feel compelled to leave since the affair. I miss it tremendously! I've gotten back to praying, sort of, and reading my Bible, but there's so much more I would rather be doing in my faith...so much more peace I feel He wants to give me. I just need to ask. So do you! <P>Oh He loves you so much (God) and wants your happiness, but remember sometimes it's hard to tell his timing...He is perfect, and so is His will...you can't go wrong if you submit yourself to it.<P>As for the OM's faith, I hope you don't judge it as harshly as some here have. I see their point, but I also know how hard it is to focus on the major points of Christianity when there's so much emotional turmoil.<P>Take care<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."