I know that I love my husband more than life itself, I know that he loves me as well. We have both put up with so much crap from eachother, that I feel we have ignored the hurt for so long, and have just come to realise that we need to completely forgive and forget the past in order to get on with our future. The hard part for me is continuing with the way things were...we aren't doing anything different. I know we both want to try to do things right, but it's very hard to even think of the other spouse, because for so long we just haven't put him/her first. All I know is that I want so much to number one in his life, and I want things to be the best that they can be for us.

you want to be #1 in his life?
i can not tell you how many times i have said exactly that to my husband.
and i was just saying recently that this whole process of "reconnecting" would be so much easier if we could start with a clean slate.....just et all the "stuff" we did and said in the past out of our heads and start communicating from scratch. but, it so hard, i know. still, i think that is a great place to start.
if you have already figured that out and you and your husband can try to keep that in mind when you talk to eachother..well, you r way ahead of us. i am crazy about my husband too....truly...no other guy would stand a chance w/ me....i am absurdly loyal....and i have always put him 1st....so, the fact that he couldn't or wouldn't didn't sit well w/ me either. i just couldn't understand it....and i didn't want to force him to do it, i just thought he should want to...the way i did.
what i have learned is that things are not always what they seem...he had a very hard time sharing his true feelings..he covered them up alot. couldn't even admit them to himself. i had to thing about a few things too. i can understand why you are scared...i still get scared too....but you are really doing well....you have taken some big steps in your relationship and sounds like yo are commited to making it better for your whole family.
and, i have to add one more thing. my baby was 6 months old when things kind of "came to a head" in my relationship. and we hve been at it for over a year now.....but, honestly, a few slips an some hurt but many more positives.
tell me some more about you guys...if there is anything i can share that will help i would be more than happy to....hey, maybe in a few years we can a write a book..or start a web-site.

Nelly, I guess my first question would be...what did you and your husband agree on as far as his outings were concerned? Did you set limits? Did you start going? What were his concerns? etc...

well, this is a tough one to start with. so much happened prior.
our whole marriage has been like a roller coaster ride really. we would get very close and be great together and then something would happen...usually some independant behavior of is....that would set me off and then we'd fight or withdraw 'till we finally would get intimate again and then things would be good for awhile.
so, after 15 years of marriage, i have to say there was finally a straw that broke the camels back. sounds like that is where you are....am i close?
as far as him going out goes.....once our communication got better...and i talked to him and told him how i really felt...even the insecure parts...and ya know, you don't have to be ashamed of that...everybody has insecurities.....it was not that i didn't trust him as much as it was that i KNEW what could happen in certain situations...especially when liquor was involved. every single time that i went out w/o him i got hit on...i HATED the thought of my husband being one of those guys who would start gushing and flirting after a few drinks.....i am getting off track, sorry...
anyway, once we started being really honest with eachother and truly trying to understand where the ohter was coming from.....things got better. but, we had our setbacks.
he spent 3 months away from me...only home on week-ends......i had major anxiety...he was going "out" every night.
now, if he wants to go out.. we talk about it first. your husband is probobly afraid that you will never understand and always say no and act hurt.
i think my husband finally realized that he had hurt me enough and truly did not want to go out if it was going to cause me pain. when i realized that,i felt better. so,now we talk if he wants to go out w/o me and negotiate some time for us too, and then i did not feel so bad about letting him go out w/ others because he was makig us a priority also.
tell me more about his "independant behavior"habits? and how you communicate.
big question....have you rated your emotional needs yet? what are your top 3
wohat do you THINK his would be.

the reason i ask about emotional needs is ....i know, even when times were really tough, that if i had been meeting his en's he would have wanted to hang out w/ me more...he would not have felt "trapped".
and if he were meeting mine...i would not have been cranky and difficult toward him. if we had only knew what they were.
but it takes a lot of understanding and and you have to be honest with eachother....and not judgemental. it's not easy. keep reading the concepts....some of it will sound crazy to you....some will make you feel like a light bulb went off in your head...start with those.

Wow, I just want to say that just by posting these little messages back and forth, I feel like i have sat through three months of counceling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope to do the emotional needs questionare tonight, or hopefully this weekend. I feel that we are really out of touch with each other on most aspects of relationship. Our communication tactics stink. We have always ignore difficult situations or silent treatmented them out...only to face them again in a couple of weeks. Like you guys, we bounced back and forth from good to bad, and in between. We did separate for three months over the holidays, and decided to try again this new year. This time saying that things would be different, and that we were going to do things right. I feel that we just took off from where we left off before the separation. We didn't know what to do or where to go for help. We both felt it important to try the marriage encounter, and like I said before it was kinda an eye opener for us both...just a chance for us to finally be alone and just try and communicate openly with each other...trying to be honest and non-judgmental, and just trying to listen to each other...now we are back out in the real world, and it's hard. Hard to refocus on him, because i have the challenges of life as does he with his...my goal is to have one joining life, which we can share our goals, dreams and hopes together.

I really agree on finding out what are emotional needs are, I am almost certain that mine will be different from his. But I hope to gain insight as to what he would like from me as his wife. Then follow through with those desires on a daily basis, even if I don't understand them completely. I hope to eventually get to the point where giving his desires to him will come so natural from me, and they will be so genuine to him, that he won't be able spend a minute away from me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ April 04, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: JoLeYn ]</small>

hi again...just had to post one last time..you have kept me at the computer a lot today.
there is a lot more i could share w/ you if you r interested...i also found it helped to chat w/ someone unbisased. i will give you my email if you like.
also...later, you may want to check out the emotional needs message board...you will have to weed thru lots of silly stuff sometimes...but,there are some very insighful people on there. i should add that i am fairly new to marriagebuilders myself...when the straw broke the camels back i started on different sites...but that's another story...i kind of worked up to marriage builders....oddly enough by the time we found it we were already trying to practice some of the concepts.
good luck tonight w/ the EN questionnaire...
don't be surprised if you guys have none of the same top needs...but i have a feeling you will. we did. my husband and i found out alot about eachother thru that thing....i think it was when we really starting to "Talk" and get honest w/ eachother.
and another thing...you may need some time to really think about what the need really means...there is a paragraph before the description of each need that really helped us...hey, good luck....i feel like i have kind of adopted you today. please keep me posted.

I too, spent alot at the computer today...i feel such an ergency to find out more information, now that my lightbulb moment has arrived. Also, like you I was in an out of chatrooms all week, trying to find some sound and stable advise...thank God for MarriageBuilders, because, i have started to feel more at ease with our problems, and have started to acknowlegde, that I will need to take baby steps, in trying to fix our issues. The other sites, just set panic in my heart, that my resentment, fears, and angers raged like a wildfire...and my husband had no idea what i was even going through or feeling! He was just thinking we just came off of this greet encounter and everything was ok...then I come in with the roaring issue...i really needed this...not only to see his side, but to see how my actions caused his negative reactions and vice/versa.

As for the need part, it's been so long since I actually focused on my needs, that I'm sure it'll take me a while to come to terms with them. You've been a comfort today. Thank you so much. I will stay in touch, and maybe some time my husband will join in my discussions as well.
Bye for tonight.

Joleyn,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with your H. I'm new here, but have a friend who was in the position of your H. She didn't have kids, so slightly different, but she wanted to go out and her H did not or could not. She went out anyway, without him, with single people of the opposite sex, from work or otherwise. Her behavior started because her emotional needs were not being met at all and any attempt at discussion was brushed off, so she retaliated. I am not saying that is what your H is doing, but I guarantee that needs are not being met. She is getting divorced now, so I really want to encourage you to try and find a solution to this problem.

I think the MB website has a ton of great information, and you could both benefit greatly from it. I do not have time to read this entire discussion, but from what I read I would suggest that you try and get a babysitter and go out with him. I am not sure why he would be against that, it seems like a good solution to me. MB says that you should spend at least 15 hours a week together anyway, so why not use that as an excuse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Also, there are some other books I would suggest if you are interested. "If Only He Knew" by Gary Smalley is for men, read him the back of the book and it should inspire him to at least check it out (if you want to that is). Gary Smalley also wrote "For Better or For Best" for women. And of course if you don't read "Fall in Love, Stay in Love", then at least read the information on MB and use the questionaires and discuss them with your H. I wish you the best and hope you and your H are able to discuss and come to a joint agreement on this situation.

joleyn,,,,, i see thatnelly has walked in your shoes and seems to be giving you sound advice. i will just say that i hope that your story ends as hers but please keep both eyes open as i have seen actions such as your h's get out of hand more times then i can count here in my short exposure to this site.

good luck and i wish you well,, pops

You're absolutely right to feel uneasy about the whole thing. My H and I always got into disagreements about his need to sleep over at relatives' homes on occasion. He'd go over to play video games, hang out, etc. and it would be late and he'd be "too tired to go home" and would crash there. I never liked it. Not because I ever thought he'd do anything, especially not with family but it just seemed somehow inappropriate to me. Well, wouldn't you know it, my H cheated on me, and with whom? My mother! How could I have possibly seen that one coming? It's so much easier for it to happen with people who are not family. I agree that a situation like that is DANGEROUS. My H was always the type to preach morals and speak against affairs. I think the ones who believe thay'd never do such a thing are some of the first to fall because they allow themselves to get into dangerous situations they would otherwise have avoided.

Go with your gut feeling:

1) He needs to destress? What about you? No, you are not wrong in your feelings.

Some history on myself. I married young, my H is a man who had many friends, both male and female. Over the course of 23 years he was involved in many EA's. I too thought something was wrong with me. He would say "Theres nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex".
Friends I knew nothing about? Female friends whom he'd go see without me? Something wrong YES.

He too would tell me he needed to destress, never mind that I was the one who stayed at home watching kids, business (and worked) etc. while he went off with friends to bars etc.

I trusted my husband with my heart, body and soul. He met a woman in a bar out of town, had an affair and blew his "ideas of what married men should be able to do" out of the water.

Now, being practical, let me say this. Once in a while- say every 5 weeks or so (in my opinion) is okay- but the rest of the time he either brings you along or takes you someplace. This is no guarantee that something can't or won't happen, look at it more as a POJA- you both give a little AND keep those lines of communication open.

Also, I see no reason why you shouldn't just pop in while he's out with the crew. Nothing going on, no problem. He shouldn't mind.

I know exactly how you feel, you want to trust, you don't want to feel like the "jailkeeper" but you don't want to allow him to disrespect you.

I gave in without any boundaries, just as with a child, I gave an inch and eventually my husband was taking MILES.

Your feelings are normal.

Maybe this saying may help- "give him just enough rope but not enough to hang himself with"

As others have posted, you cannot completely affair proof, but you CAN do things (such as not going to bars alone) to PROTECT the core of your marriage.

It's all about give and take, and most importantly respect for each other's feelings.

Good luck kiddo!

Jolyen:

You seem amazingly knowledgeable for someone so young. I admire your approach to dealing with your H's wish to do independent things. I have been married almost 27 years and am presently in the middle of a divorce. My H has always been an independent individual and even from the beginning of our marriage would do things without me and I didn't protest. He would go swimming on weekends for 4 hours at a time and talk to all kinds of people at the pool etc. He was not into bar drinking, but daytimes were his forte! He has always had more women he talks to than men. He slowly moved into emotional affairs. I was totally oblivious, just ambled along and more or less let him do what he wanted. I was exhausted working full time (sometimes evenings), managing two children trying to keep the house in order. My family were also 10,000 miles away.

I just let things roll without much protest and he finally edged into an affair about 4 years ago, then another he is presently involved in. At 56 years of age he has thrown all his morals to the wind.

You are doing the right thing by explaining your unhappiness with his "independent" behavior. I wish the MarriageBuilders site and other information was available to me 20 years ago, and maybe we wouldn't be at this stage. Also my belief that his behavior was "harmless" was another mistake. The past 5 years he has been going to coffee houses during the day and refused to let me join him. If I turned up, he would immediately get up and leave. He told me he was entitled to do things by himself. Red flags all over the place.

I will not bore you further with my story, but you are certainly making a wonderful effort to address the problem you have and I wish you all the best.

Ok, I'm back, and recently went over the emotional needs with my H. We were on the same page for alot of those needs which really surprised me, but there were many that we were complete opposites. There hasn't been a guys night out for quite some time, maybe it's been cuz he's so been busy with actual work, or maybe it's because we are starting to reconnect as a couple. Something we haven't done for a very long while. We really have grown so far apart from each other that the EN were an eye opener...I don't think we were quite ready for that, but some day I think we'll be able to sit down and do them again, and really appreciate each others emotional feelings.

Hi everyone
I'm new to these boards. I'm recently married
and am struggling personally with these issues.
My husband is 39 and lived a rather fast and loose life as a bachelor before he met me. What is difficult is being "the lone voice crying out in the wilderness" about what I think is respectful or not in marriage. When I tell him
that his friends' drinking habits or racist comments offend me, or that I don't like the idea of him taking separate vacations "with the boys"
and without me, I'm made to feel like I'm a
freak--why? Because all his friends' wives and even his family members enable with their spouses what to me is unacceptable.

I'm learning to just say "NO"--I cannot live with
[behavior X]. It's hard, too, because as a previous post-er wisely noted, it makes the
spouse left at home feel low on the priority list.

I like Dr. Harley's idea that if whatever concept or behavior can't be approved by both partners,
it ought not to be done.

I wish you well...and try to remain true to your ideals, no matter how hard that is.

Warm thoughts to everyone,
AAA

Hello everyone i'm new to the boards and I have been married for 3 yrs and have a 6 year old daughter. I believe that going out every week is just a little to much and if he's not willing to compromise on that then he's not considering your feelings.....Once maybe twice a month might be cool as long as you two agree on it, and then at least once a month you two should go out together on a date alone and without the children, nothin fancy, maybe a movie and a burger just some time alone...Sometimes the relationship can get lost with raising the kids but you have to have some mommy and daddy time....Why don't you make the plans and say hey let's go to a movie friday or saturday night....hope all goes well and see ya later

We have started to reconnect with each other, allowing more date nights together instead of without each other. It is still incredibly discouraging when he wants to go without me. I am still at the point if it hurts me in anyway, big or small...why do it? I would stop doing something if it bothered him.

Hello Highschool Sweetheart,

I'm in about the same boat as you but with my W. It just doesn't make sense to me either. How's you EN situation? Mine is one-sided. Not ten minutes have gone by since we went through our ENs (about five days ago now) that I haven't checked myself to see if I had made a recent effort to meet her needs. I've talked to her twice now to see if she felt that her ENs were being met and if I'd exhibited any LBs. Yes to ENs, no to LBs. Great! Unfortunately, I had to tell her that I hadn't noticed her make any efforts to try to meet my ENs. She's had excuses like not enough time, too tired, forgot. I ask her if she'd like me to remind her now and then and she says no.

Anyway, she was going out after work also (unfortunately she is currently working until 3am most nights and going out means home at 5am or even later). She has stopped going out now. What I did was ask her to read some of the MB website (basic points), and then I had her read through your post and the replies that you received. That is what made the difference. Have you considered asking your H to read this post? Sometimes seeing that the general concensus is not in your favor can halp a person to see things from a different perspective.

I have asked him to visit the site but he hasn't. I haven't told him about my post either. I wish he would come to terms with IBs and accept the fact that some things are just not to be done in a marriage, and if one part of the marriage is unhappy because of the others actions, than that action must be stopped...he hasn't gone out with group for a while, nor has he asked to. I don't know what to think, yet......maybe I should try harder to get him to this site.