KS,
<p>Yes, men are highly stimulated visually. That's why I hate it when my wife may try to turn the light out right after she takes off her clothes. That cuts out one of my biggest pleasures.
<br>But if I man is married he should not be looking at other women. I'll qualify that. I see great looking women all the time at work and elsewhere. Do I notice how good they look? You bet I do.
<br>But it isn't really a question of supressing something. If I took vows to be faithful to one woman then it's part of what I have to do to keep that promise to not dwell any further in my mind about other women then noticing that they're attractive. You'd have to be blind not to see that. But you don't have to roll it around in your mind the way you roll candy on your tongue.
<br>How can it be respectful for me to look at other women while my wife is with me? I would be very upset if she did that to other men while I was there. So I don't really see it as a question of supression. When I married her I was in effect saying that I cut off any avenues of intimacy to other women. Why torture myself toying with thoughts of messing with someone else when I don't want it to lead to anything more?
<br>I'm not saying I've been a perfect angel who has never looked the wrong way at another woman. But in spite of that I know that I have what I want (I just hope I can keep it at this point)and it simply makes no sense to make it harder on myself to maintain that stance by fantasizing about another woman.

To New Woman
<br> I have read your post in infidelity very encouraging.
<br> There is one catch here my wife as had an affair and she tells me its only plutonic relationship now. She stills talks to him online and phone. Its very gut renching to me. We are going to counseling and I have found out that wife never had a childhood and now she is starting to breakout. She wants her independence and wants to answer to no one. She wants me to move out so she can be alone here with my kids (ages 14 & 8). She does not have a job so if support a house and an apt. we would be bankrupt in months.
<br> I told her Iam staying because the girls need a dad/parent right now,and i have built such a rapport with them now they come to me for everything.
<br> Maybe i should leave for a few months? I don't know Iam so confused but if its going to help her and our marriage I will do it.
<br> Any comments on what Iam going thru would be greatly appreciated.
<p> Jim
<p>
<br>

KenS,
<br>First, I've begged her to let me go with her and support her, but she refuses, stating that is her time, and I've accepted that. I too tried 12 step programs, but becuase I was never able to address the reasons why I chose to be self-destructive, I always took the easy way out and picked up again. After many years of using I finally was able to come to terms with my core issues and learned to get them out of me, to get rid of the resentments I had for the childhood that was forced on me, combined with much anger and hurt.Now, at least I am at peace with those issues and they are no longer a problem for me. You can't change who your are, but you can change the person you have become, by changing those things that made you pickup in the first place. As far as taking into account the feelings of others, she certainly isn't thinking of my feelings, and I don't really see her thinking of the boys, and now they too are showing signs of resentment and animosity towards their mother, which is indeed a high price to pay. As it stands now, it's all about her and I've accepted that, it doesn't mean that I have to like it, but I'm trying very hard. Bear in mind my boys have gone to meetings with her and they have heard the people talk about how one must leave their marriages, family's etc., and I will never agree with that, unless of course there was others forms of abuse,or adultery, etc. I feel as though I have my priorities in order after years of chaos, but one thing everyone who has ever known us would tell you our family unit was extremely solid, even with the drug use and my boys have always been taught that loyalty to God, Themselves and family were most important.
<br>I love my Wife with all of my being, but I have accepted the fact that I may never have her back. I did push her in the beginning but with acceptance comes a certain amount of patience, but for how long?
<br>Thanks KenS
<p>JKelly,
<p>As I said, my wife and I had a wonderful relationship, we were best friends, great lovers, shared the same hopes and dreams for over 23 years, now that is all gone. You seem to have it the nail on the head, she has replaced her dependancy on drugs with her program. I won't belabor the issue but suffice it to say that, would it be too much to ask of her to at least go to counseling, so we both could at least say we gave our all?
<br>And to all of those who have posted in the past here and to all those who have helped me, much gratitude. Any more insight would be appreciated.
<p>John

Charlee,
<br>No, you are not wrong and I say you would be a fool to marry him. I know that's strong language but if you read the posts in this forum you'll see how many of us have made mistakes we wish we hadn't.
<br>In your case it is clear that he is not exhibiting the maturity level and sensitivity necessary for marriage. I think if you marry him with his attitude it will be a big mistake and a pain you could have avoided.
<br>How can he just walk away from his former wife? Why doesn't he love her any more? If he did that to her he can do it to you, I mean unless he had very good reason.
<br>Bottom line; he is not showing maturity or responsibility in this and it sounds like not much time has passed between now and the last relationship, which he obviously is not ready to let completely go of. I say you better take a firm stand now, however bad it may make you feel, because the potential pain to come if you don't will make the present circumstances look like a picnic.

In my case, my SO has left for the OW, so he isn't really giving me much chance in the decision making.
<p>It's very hard when your friends tell you to just get on with your life, etc.
<br>I know - at least for me - I have to give it my best shot. That makes me feel good about me. If I do all that I can do, and it doesn't work, then it wasn't meant to be, and hopefully there will be someone else out there to appreciate all that I have now learned about healthy relationships.
<p>It's difficult right now - feeling that my SO is being so selfish. He isn't learning anything right now - just enjoying the moment, and not looking at the pain he is causing so many people. Addiction!
<p>So, in the meantime, I will learn and do all that I can in a healthy way. And maybe he is learning in his own way - much as I hate it right now. I only wonder if he has to hit bottom to figure it out.
<p>The one interesting thing I have seen on this forum, is that it seems that it is the women who see the light, and return. I wonder how many men have found that the grass wasn't always greener after they have left, and return to work on the relationship?
<br>Sara
<br>

Hello Leigh,
<br>In my opinion, now is the time to see a counselor. Nip it in the bud before it grows into something that can distance you further. If I would have seen problems as you see them, soon enough, counseling would have saved me the pain I'm going through now. I believe my wife and I waited too long to see a counselor. Someone nuetral can help both of you see the communication breakdown from a different perspective and show you ways to eliminate resentment and help prevent it from continuing.
<br>Believe me, counseling can help, I just wish I knew it sooner.
<br>Take care,
<br>Greg
<br>

nevermind<p>[This message has been edited by boxmover.]

Bruce,
<br>I dont know if all women are so different. Unfortunately, the wives of those of us posting here have that much in common. It would be easy to say that ALL of them are like this. I guess for us, it does not matter how many. It's just the one that counts.
<br>I also wonder why they think things will be better for them elsewhere. They already have a loving husband who is proving he will do ANYTHING for them. A home, family and stability. Maybe the stability scares them?
<br>It's great that you and your wife got to go away for a few days. Besides enjoying yourselves, it sounds like a great tension reliever. My wife is so tense and uptight when I am home with her. She does not enjoy being with me for fear of SOMETHING.
<br>She is already seeing a therapist. I have suggested (and so has her therapist) some anti-depressent medication for temporary relief. But, she is totally against it.
<br>She wants to try to stay together, sometimes. Other times she talks about the hopelessness of her feelings. She sometimes feels she will never love again, at all.
<br>I also accept the responsibility in neglecting my wife over the years. But, she never expressed any need for anything I did not give. The "reading their minds" comment has been said by me over and over again. But, she feels she never HAD TO say anything. So GUILT has nothing to do with it. Neither of us spoke our true feelings about a lot of things. Like you said, women hold this GRUDGE about things, while men tend to forgive and forget fairly easily.
<br>I don't know if this has any relevence, but my wife reads a lot of romance novels. The bestseller ones. I know that the men/husbands in these that the women wind up with are letter perfect, totally passionate, and extremely romantic. I often wonder if they have anything to do with my wife's current attitude.
<p>Greg,
<br>I feel for you regarding you wife's emotional relationship with her old boyfriend. At least in my case her affair was extremely short. She gave me the reasons she did it, and also assures me that there is nothing there. Never really was.
<br>I have read that trial separations might give the spouse a false impression of what life would be like after divorce. There are very little monetary issues. And, she always has some place to fall back on. It's like test driving a new car. Great for the ride. But it's not until later you find out about how it guzzles gas, and other problems. I also personally feel that if she is away, you have less chance of showing her your love. It is probably different for everyone. And, like I said, my wife now says she needs to get away for a short while. I hope short (a few days) is all.
<p>John,
<br>Don't think that the automiton attitude is just in your situation. For most of the time, my wife just "goes through the motions" of her daily activities. Basically shut down to me. Just stay nearby and hope that she will one-day open her eyes to you. The intimacy has totally left my marriage. She never needs hugs or kisses, and even has problems giving them to the kids. She gives me a hug and kiss when I need it, but she made it clear that she does not want to give me the WRONG idea.
<p>I think each one of us should be able to hold our heads up for what we are trying to accomplish. The easy way out would be to leave, or let them go. Persevere.

Doug,
<p>Personally I wouldn't want sex every day. It takes away from it in my opinion. After a few days have gone by i'm ready to put everything into it and the desire is high.
<br>I don't think you can equate giving affection with sex. Affection can be shown in many small ways that take little time or energy. One can easily fill a love bank with them. If you have kids sex has to be planned for, and sometimes they can prevent you from having it.
<br>If the wife works as well as the husband then sometimes the energy levels aren't there. Since for the woman sex is enhanced by the mood preceeding the act and the atmosphere that can be sabotaged by an argument, kids, a bad day, etc.
<br>I also think that if a man has a need for sex every day that it is an abnormal need being pumped up by something out of priority. I don't think the importance of fulfilling needs includes fulfilling needs that have for some reason become obsessive. A need like that would, I believe, denote selfishness at its root, and selfishness has an insatiable appetite. Who can be expected to deal with that?
<br>But sex at least every three months? Not only would I be bitter, I'd be downright comatose.
<p>But