Why do so many states and provinces here in Canada grant a divorce on "no-fault" when adultery is committed by one spouse?<P>While I do not have to wait the required 12 months after separation (have anyway due to legal tie ups) to get a divorce due to H's adultery, why do the courts then make the settlement "no-fault"<P>I do not think H should have to give me everything, he is entitled to live on what he has and earns AFTER he has paid proper support for the children and myself (major issue in my case as he has not disclosed this honestly), but why should I have to "equalize" my assets so that he gets what I have.<P>If your spouse has committed adultery, why would the betrayer be paid alimony, equalization payments and enough left over to keep OW in a way that takes financial backing away from the childern and former spouse. (assumoing that the infidel parent does NOT have custody.<P>Is it not time that the law changed to ensure that the betrayer does not walk away without some financial consequence, without being left destitute? Why should the "former family" have to pay the price for this?<P>------------------<BR>

Boy, do I agree!<BR>And that's the reason I didn't file under irreconsilable differences. It's no-fault in my state. I made sure that the grounds are adultery and cruel and inhuman treatment. None of this will be hard to prove in my case. <P>And financially, I am asking for a lot. I want him to see the consequences financially of what he has done to our family!!!<P>Mitzi

Boy did you strike a nerve with me!!! My H is the adulterer, left me to live with the OW, filed for a divorce and is now asking me for alimony!!!!<P>Where is the justice in this. Our state laws don't care about morals. I went from lawyer to lawyer trying to find someone to fight for me based on what he did. No one will, because the law won't allow them too. The law doesn't care that he slept with another woman, broke up his family, that she broke up her family, that many hearts were broken irrevocably. I can't even afford counseling. Guess what, the court doesn't care. Just divide the things up and sign the papers.<P>But if I do something illegal to the SOB, I'll spend the rest of my life in jail so the system can support me, but it won't do anything for me now.<P>Thanks for letting me vent! <P>Is there something wrong with this picture?

I agree totally!!!! I have am fighting to make my H pay all this stuff for abandonment.<BR>He has not paid anything in 8 months for support of the house, myself or my children. He FINALLY paid his first childsupport payment not long ago. He feels he should not have to pay anything since he moved out! <P>As far as the courts go, I believe that is why there is so much infidelity. If there was drastic consequences for adultry I'd bet people would think twice about what they did. I know my H didn't even think that I would file for divorce much less ask for alimony etc. He threatens to move out of the country so he can avoid paying anything.<P>So laws definitely need to be changed!!!<P>Tulip<BR>

Even though my H will have to pay a significant amount of child support, since we have six kids and he earns quite a lot of money, our household income is much much lower than when he was here, and the savings are minimal. I went more deeply into debt while looking for a job. The first 15K I earn is protected, but I figured out that somewhere around 80% of anything I make above that I will never see, between taxes and the fact that in this state the more money I earn, the less child support he has to pay. Basically what that means is that I will never have any more money than I have right now. I will be struggling financially for the rest of my life. I have to support 7 people on not much more than he has to support just himself.

In NC the adulterer is not intitled to alimony. Marital property is seperated by equitable distrabution. Not 50/50. Custody is determined by who is the most fit to care fot the child, the other pay the support.<P>In my situation, the property was settled no problem. I got everything I wanted. Custody is shared custody so I owe no support. Divorce will be granted due to her adultry in oct.<P>I could sue LRB for alienation of affection and criminal conversation. NC has granted the plaintiff settlements in these two areas many times in recent years. Will I do this I doubt it.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Mitzi:<BR>Goodluck in you legal quest. I hope that the courts allow you to get a fair settlement acording to what is morally correct.<P>Bev1124:<BR>This is what I see as total injustice. Why should you have to pay alimony?<BR>The law IMO is morally bankrupt, even as it leaves our x's and stbx's often financially better off.<P>Tulip:<BR>I agree that if the law, if the case of proven adultery and physical abuse is a factor in the divorce, then there should be financial consequences.<BR>Nellie:<BR>This is what I find so unfair. Why should you have to work even harder and your H pay less according to how much you make? This is where the law is unjust. He caused the family to shatter and now you have the emotional burden as well as the financial burden while he is laughing all the way to bank his surplus money.<BR>William J:<BR>I wish that I lived in N.C. as this seems a much fairer way to sort this out and would work better for me.<P>In fact I do have a premarital contract where I am supposed to keep what is mine and H is supposed to keep what is his. <BR>1)Since we were not married in Canada H is fighting that this is invalid.<BR>2)I filed for divorce on the grounds of adultery and cited the name of his partner. This is incommon here, but legal grounds not "irreconcilable differences". H was horrified , and counter petitioned that this was not true and we had to prove this. The @sshole had written me a letter admitting this during reconciliation to the effect "while I shoulder blame for affair, you were to blame for the breakdown of the marriage"!!!!His lawyer never addressed this again.<BR>3)H insists he is not responsible for the kid's educationas "I have enough money and my parents can afford this" My lawyer is slowly getting motions through the courts to at least get interim support (took 9 months for this) and for H to pay for education costs.<BR>He wants money set aside for the kids to pay for this when this was set aside not for this and was not used for this. Courts bought into this. NOT FAIR (but interim only)<P>If only the courts would see through his bu!![censored] and finish this all so that I can use the money I am paying my lawyer for better things!I have to spend to get what is mine!!!This is so wrong morally.<P>The crux of the matter in my case is that H needs every penny he earns and has to keep him in the manner he feels is his due and was able to live the way he did and chose for our family due to my resources AND his earnings. He cannot have the fancy house and fancy cars, fancy trips etc (which is what is now the most important thing for him) without taking from me and not having to support his "former family"<BR>I do not know why the courts cannot see through this. If adultery was looked upon as a cause for divorce with financial fairness, I would be finished with this divorce, instead it will drag on for years<BR> <BR>

willbok<P>Ughh did you strike a nerve. LOL. You speak from experience and share my thoughts exactly.<P>The betrayer should not get to walk away like they do. I agree. No fault is ridiculous in these cases, and the twelve month wait as well. <P>If a betrayer abandons family for OP, what right should they have 3 months later to take a TV and washer, etc. They left it, its not theirs now. <P>Child support and alimoney needs to be more closely monitored to get it to the suffering parties quicker. It should always go back to the date of seperation, not the date papers were filed, that is wrong too. If you have a betrayer who filled out a change of address form, 5 weeks earlier, etc, I'd say theres substantial proof that he had no intents of coming back and should be liable from what ever earliest date can be proven. <P>UGGH I could go on for hours. Thanks to Mitzi for telling me of this new section on the forum. <P>Prayers to all, Dana<BR>

lonelymom:<BR>How are you doing?<BR>The infidelity is hurtful enough, one would think that since the infidel wants OW they will be "honourable" towards the "former family"<P>Quite the contrary in my experience. This makes it so much worse. First the adultery, then the entitlement financially and the expectation that I must be there for the kids while he plays "uncle dad" Quite a sh!thole now. He and OW DESERVE each other!!! <P>On the other hand how caould I have expected this man who has only thought of himself in his "fantasy land" not to have put OW, finances etc all in the same "fantasy" <BR>I do not think he is ready for this reality check of what his actions really caused, now he will have to start dealing with them.

Before everyone jumps on a plane to NC, also know that it is the only state in the U.S. where it is not illegal to rape your wife. OH, and Jessie Helms is their Senator. 'Nuff said...<P>I was just thumbing through my divorce papers, and happened to notice that there are about 13 different reasons to file for divorce. Adultery is only one of them. Sorry folks. The reason why they made divorces no-fault is because the kind of cases where each party is out to prove whom-hurt-whom-more just wasted alot of people's time, and the outcome probably wasn't all that different anyway.<P>While I have sympathy for the betrayed (I've been one myself), I still was forced to admit that *I* was the one that married the schmuck. Noone held a gun to my head...And personally, I don't want my tax money going to pay for someone else's personal vendetta (i.e. leaving the betrayer destitute). The fact that the death penalty still exists perfectly illustrates that laws do not motivate people's behavior. <P>What you are really pissed off about is that your spouse cheated on you and hasn't had to suffer enough to make you happy. I agree, it sucks when somebody who hurts you has no remorse. It is perfectly natural to want them to pay, and pay dearly. But please, if you are going out for revenge, make sure that noone but your spouse will suffer because of it.

TS,<P>I'll be the first to admit that I am out for a little revenge. But my situation is so much more different than anyone else here. Mine is about making him "pay" a little for the 10 yrs of hell I had to go thru with him. I guess I didn't have to but at the same time, it's much easier to say than do. It's that control thing. So, mine isn't just about adultery. I could have my H arrested anytime between now and Nov. The last time he hit me was in Nov. and I can press charges up to a yr later. But for now, that's on hold. <P>And in my case the OW needs to pay. She has said horrible things about me and my children (they are little F***ing B*****ds according to her and she's never seen them.) She doesn't want her name mentioned in my divorce but that's just too bad. I'll do what I have to to keep her away from my children!<P>And I am in no way angry at all betrayers. Only my H and the OW. Unless I know of abuse. I have a lot of sympathy for you. You got a bad deal from your H and in my opinion, you didn't deserve it!<P>Mitzi

The Student<BR>If you read my post clearly I do not think that the betrayer should walk out of the marriage destitute, far from it in my case.<P> But I do not feel that the "former family" in general should definately not suffer financially more than the betrayed. There is a difference between destitute and not paying enough. Further more why should the betrayed's finances go to support the children of the marriage equally, leaving the betrayer with enough not only to support him or herself AND the OP and their family to some extent. This is the part that is not fair.<P>My particular situation is that why should my H who earns megabucks not be responsible for his family in a way that he was before as he always had plenty to invest "for the family" in addition to what he earned.<BR> Why can he not use this now to pay for his family since he is no longer investing it for us, but rather for his hedonistic excesses, not usual living expenses, which he affords easily on his salary. Except my H wants my house etc, and expects anyone but him to support his kids!<BR>I would like to leave him "on the streets" as a fantasy! but in reality what I believe is that as a betrayer why is he entitled to walk away from me with extra financially than he has now? Is that fair?<P>There is a happier and fairer medium and the courts have to address this more carefully

Mitzi and Willbok,<P>I wish you too could get some justice. It really is pretty crappy what you both have, and are still going through. I don't know what the answer is. I'm kinda libertarian in my views, i.e. the less laws the better. <P>There is probably no such thing as fair for either of you. I'm betting it is not even about the money. I know, the money sure would help. My first H slept with a gazillion prostitutes and miscellaneous trash(he admitted to about 20)and I just walked away. I could have had him kicked out of the military because he slept with a midshipman. Plus, he got gonorrea on one of his cruises. Obviously, he could not have gotten it from me. I could have tried to take everything he had. Instead, I decided that he wasn't worth even 6 months of court room junk. <P>You both have children. It is perfectly respectable that you don't want the children around the OW, even under the best of circumstances. I don't know all the laws. I think it is pretty rare that your ex would get the house if you have primary custody. Apparently, he's just a *ickhead out for whatever he can get right now. It sucks that you even have to fight for it.<P>

To Student,<P>In my case, I am not pissed off enough as you mentioned. I am disappointed in my STBX beyond belief. <P>He too was a total idiot for ten years. There are a lot of women on this forum that stayed because of physical or emotional abuse. I stayed out of devotion to my kids. Some women stay out of the inability to support themselves financially.<P>The outcome of the divorce, is always the same. The marriage is over. In the end the reason, is just on the divorce paper and both parties know what the real reasons may be. <P>I still agree with wilbok on the issues that many men, RUN off and leave their wife and children behind and in a world of financial trouble. THe betrayers that are men, who leave the wife and children behind, in a lot of cases, DO go on to wine and dine their OW, they keep their current lifestyle or improve it while the family at home suffers. I think this was what Wilbok was referring to. <P>I doubt any law would truly help any of us here. I agree with that.<P>Its funny you say that we might not be happy until our Betrayer suffers. Jealousy and revenge are always a tiny motivation, but don't forget a lot of us here, have such vindictive H's, that after Discovery, these monsters have gone on to go out of their way to hurt us. <P>You'd think if they had such a great relationship and new life, they'd let us find the same, instead of stalking, withholding child support, prank phone calls, stealing tax refund money, and on and on.<P>To Mitzi, I'm glad to see you today<P>Dana<P><BR>

Dana,<P>You explained this a lot better than I could. My H is so vindictive and I feel like I'm supposed to roll over and take it. I did it for 10 yrs, why stop now? NOT!<P>I've gotten the threatening and annoying phone calls, no financial support since Feb. 13, verbally abused, no visits with the kids since Feb 13. I almost feel like doing the pay-phone hang-up thing myself!! Plus I will soon get my Unofficial PI's license A person I know lives next to the OW and she has given me permission to go on a stake out from her home. I will have a camera and a video camera. Evidence time!! Not just on the OW but on my H too. If he's doing the same things she is (illegal), he'll be in trouble! My kids will not be around him without supervision! I have to do this to protect my kids no for revenge. Also H is trying to say he's not living with the OW. So I'll have to prove it. <P>This just sucks! I am going to work soon so I won't be completely dependent on him but he needs to be a lot more responsible for his kids than he has been.<P>Mitzi<P>P.S. I'm here everyday!! (addict)

The Student:<BR>I am a lot better off than most I know and yet it is all relative to ones own life experience and expectations.<P>My point is that I am financially able to support my 4 kids, and say to h$ll with H and the life he has chosen. However, I will not walk away from the money I invested in his company which enabled him to be the "big-shot ([censored]) he thinks he is now. Why should I continue to subsidize this part of his fantasy. It is time he facd a little bit of reality....whats his is his and what is mine is mine and he MUST pay fairly for 4 kids and their education, all of which he thinks and truly believes he does not have to.<P>I believe that in his narcissistic and childish fantasy world he can still bully me into believing that he knows best about finances, the law and what is best for me. He does not and it is like a veil has been lifted...he is not the source of all knowledge in this regard.<P> He needs his megabucks to continue to live the way he enjoyed (and the reason why he now needs a poor woman as money is his G-d) is that he is so insecure and does not understand that no amount of money can but happiness. But that is who he is now.<P>My point really is he can have whatever lifestyle he wants or chooses, but not with the money he thinks is coming his way from me due to equalization of assets, while not using his income and salary to support his kids. Mine is an unusual situation in that we each can afford a lot, but why should I let him walk away with everything of his own..his cars, his company, and tehn still take from me while he will not pay for his kids as he has not declared his income properly!!<P>His problm is that he has always considered himself smarter than anyone else, but at the moment it is his downfall and is VERY expensive.<P>This is the type of case where the lawyers stand to make a bundle, but I feel that I will never be at "peace" with what has happened, if I have to subsidize his assets so he can play in the big leagues where he fantasizes he belongs. Of course I am horrified that he thinks I have to pay for the college costs of 2 kids and private school for one as well as everything else for the kids. This is all part of his fantasy as this sense of entitlement all sort of happened at the same time as the affair.<P>What irks me is that I know I am right and will go to great financial lengths to get justice. <P>By the way, his manipulation and control of the kids is the greatest hurt and source of angst for me and this will never end.....had he decided to live on another continent and leave the kids and myself alone, I probably would have given him a better settlement, but he is still causing chaos and I do not need him flaunting his wealth to the kids when so much of it is not his anyway!

You have every right, and are entitled to your share of the business you helped with. It is hard when the attys get in the middle, but you must do what is right for you and the kids. <BR>I am struggling some with this issue myself. While I am also self supporting and did ok with the divorce settlement, we still own the business together (me51%, he 49%)and work together. He is still taking advantage of the business for himself. In the past three months, he has taken off 8 days, at the last minute, left work to be done by others, and we lost out bidding on work because he did not do it(he is our only estimator). <BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

Willbok and Mitzi,<BR>Thanks for giving me the details. In my usual, not so tactful, way I was trying to separate the financial from the emotional. <P>You are certainly entitled to the financial part you both have explained. I only caution you about the emotional aspect of it (i.e. revenge). The saying goes "revenge is a dish best served cold"<P>Did you ever see the First Wives Club? I think this fits so many situations. The first wife is the one who raises the kids and makes it possible for the husband to become successful. Then, once he has become successful, he dumps the first wife for brainless twinky. It happens all of the time. Some people like to believe that they got "there" all on their own, and very much take for granted the support they recieved along the way. Usually it is men because usually it is men who grow up "expecting" to be taken care of by women. Unfortunately, we women are raised to grow up expecting to take care of them too. That won't be me anymore!!<P>Anyway, I did want to say that you are very much justified in fighting for your kids college education and the business. No argument there at all. There should be consequences to dumping your family. I'm just not so sure that legislation can fix that all of the time. <P>

TS,<P>It is hard to separate the emotional aspect from all of this mess. I'll be the first to admit that. (Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! LOL)<P>I get angry everytime I think about all of the crap I took for over 10 years. I get angry everytime I think about H and the OW together. I get angry alot! LOL<BR>He can't seem to give me any support for the kids but yet he can take her away for the weekend and buy her stuff. Not fair to my kids at all.<P>I also did a lot of things to help him better himself. He got a DUI shortly before we got married. (But I still went thru with it!). He didn't have a license for 3 years after that. I drove him to work and picked him up. I got my kids out of bed at 4am to take him to work and sometimes had to get them up at 2and 3am to go get him. I got my kids up in the middle of the night to go get him from the bars. When he started his DUI classes, I took him and waited on him for 3 hours 2 times a week with 2 small children in the car. Maybe I didn't work but if it hadn't been for me, he wouldn't have worked either. <P>Believe me, I am not offended by anything you've said. This just gives me a chance to tell a little more of the story and maybe you can understand what type of man I'm dealing with. Sometimes I can't believe I actually married him. YUK!!!<P>Mitzi

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by willbok99:<BR><B>Why do so many states and provinces here in Canada grant a divorce on "no-fault" when adultery is committed by one spouse?<P>While I do not have to wait the required 12 months after separation (have anyway due to legal tie ups) to get a divorce due to H's adultery, why do the courts then make the settlement "no-fault"<P>I do not think H should have to give me everything, he is entitled to live on what he has and earns AFTER he has paid proper support for the children and myself (major issue in my case as he has not disclosed this honestly), but why should I have to "equalize" my assets so that he gets what I have.<P>If your spouse has committed adultery, why would the betrayer be paid alimony, equalization payments and enough left over to keep OW in a way that takes financial backing away from the childern and former spouse. (assumoing that the infidel parent does NOT have custody.<P>Is it not time that the law changed to ensure that the betrayer does not walk away without some financial consequence, without being left destitute? Why should the "former family" have to pay the price for this?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The reason is that such laws were instituted by those who earnestly had the desire to do the same dastardly deed. They are following Satan's lead which is a lie. However, we can't avoid these things occurring because they are covered in the Bible. We haven't seen the worst part yet.<P><P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net