Hi all, <P>I don't want to be at this side of the forum,but I have to be open to all possibilites. <P>Quick update, I am still in Plan A, my betrayer wife and I are pretty civil with each other and talk quite a bit about our D. We have had brief mention of Divorce, but she has not initiated anything at this time. I have told her it is not what I want, and will not file myself.<P>Now my question? According to couple of lawyers I have asked, I may not have much of a case for legal sole custody or even physical custody (morals and affair on her behalf don't matter in court? huh !!) <P>All this time we have agreed to joint parenting and time with D (3 1/2 year old). Now she is talking to me about stability for our D and because she was always the primary caregiver (at home 2 weekdays a week, 3 month leave after birth) she now feels she should get like 8/6 or 9/5 split in two week span for the sake of stability for D. I had to bite my tongue....(now she is worried about stability or what's best for D?) remember no lovebusters. I told her I would have to think about it<P>What do you all think, of this crud? I am still concerned about wives morals and values, (OM is around with W and D sometimes and my W spends her free nights mostly at OM's place). Unlike other betrayer wives at this forum, my wife has made effort to maintain relationship with D and joint parent thru all this. Am I being wrong or inconsiderate of D needs for mother if I do not agree with all this? <P>I am meeting with my lawyer on monday, I am interested in real life feedback. Thanks to all even though good fathers do seem to get the shaft !

hi Izzy,<BR>All I know is that there seem to be alot of good men and woman getting the shaft these days. None of this is fair. It does seem to me that men who are in your shoes have a tougher time than woman. But, what is really hurting you the most is how this person you love so much seems to just not give a darn about you. It hurts!<BR>My H just left for the weekend with my son. It is the most empty feeling in the world. It has been since Sept. 11th and it makes me cry every time. Today he just seemed so cold and it kills me to think he must hate me. It is a very lonely place to be. How did we all get here?<BR>There is no answer that will satisfy you. Because the situation is a no win either way.<P>So, you live in Illinois? My husbands OW lives in Northbrook. Do you live near there? She is a school teacher around there someplace. Married woman. Its all crazy isnt it? <BR>I wish I had a good thing to tell you tonight but, I don't. I just pray for you that you and your D somehow get through this with as few scars as possible. <BR>Well, try to do something nice for yourself this weekend and if you're with your D just love her and cherish the time you have with her. I hope for the best for you.<BR>Lisa

I don't think that men necessarily get the shaft. I think the NCP gets the shaft.<P>I agree with you that morals and values should play some part in divorce proceedings. I was also shocked that even though my wife went out on Christmas Day to spend time with the OM, the court doesn't care. How low can you go?<P>I got primary custody because I am in graduate school and had been the primary caretaker since my wife wnet back to work. We are also in student housing, so she could not have kept the apartment if she got custody.<P>The standard is whoever does most of the parenting duties with the child usually gets primary custody. Who takes care of your child while the wife is out galavnating (sp) with the OM. Document this. Use a spreadsheet to show how much time each of you spend out of the house. Even if your child is asleep, if mom is not there, you are primary caretaker during this time.<P>I know it is hard for you, but you must protect yourself and your daughter. On another board, someone said something that I have taken to heart: "Pray for peace, but prepare for war." I would like nothing better than to be back with my wife, at the same time I need to protect myself from her irresponsibility.<P>Good Luck to you<p>[This message has been edited by grandpabri (edited April 28, 2000).]

Hey Izzy,<BR>I Just though I would pop in and give some advice. We are in similar situations with our wives. You remember my story. Anyway, Although no children were involved with me I have to agree with the others that you must protect yourself. I too would take my wife back if I thought she was serious and was going to make a true effort at our marriage. <P>But, I had to protect myself financially and I feared what she would do to me. I filed this week and signed yesterday and had her served. That was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I felt so dead inside after signing those papers but it had to be done. I needed to protect myself and that was the only way. <P>Anyway, my point is do what is necessary to protect yourself if she goes sideways. Just because I filed ( which I said I would never do ) doesn't mean that I don't love her any less. It means I took a step toward control of my life and self preservation. It also means that I am no longer her doormat. I cannot tolerate her and her OM any longer.<P>I guess I just reached my limit of the amount of times I would allow her to kick in my guts and stomp on my heart. <P>Don't let the heart get in the way of longterm self preservation.... Protect thyself. By the way I am not saying to go get a divorce...... Just be cautious with her.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.

Izzy,<P>How will your w going to support herself when /if you divorce? She will not be able to have 2 weekdays off if she has a regular 8-5 job. She needs to understand that you will not be supporting her when you divorce and she will probably have to work full time so she will not have as much time to spend with the kids as she thinks. Then you can push for the 50/50 split.<P>Or you can play hardball, and tell her you are going to push for full custody because of her affair. Tell her you are ready to drag her through the court to get custody, maybe then she will agree to the 50/50 split.<P>The reason males get screwed is because most are the major breadwinners so they get hit with the high percentage of support.<P>In my case, my x was supplying 30% of our gross income so she only has to contribute 30 % of what the state has figured it costs to raise 2 kids. That comes to $200 per kid per month. <P>So my household income went from over $80000 a year down to about $60000. Meanwhile she went from making just under $30000 working part-time to now over $35000 working about full time less the child support, plus she has om and his mother supportinh her.<P>Now who is getting screwed in this picture?

Bob,<P>I don't agree that men get the shaft if they were the major breadwinner. When the man is the betrayer, the custodial mom is the one who gets the shaft. I had to go back to work, and even with that added income, our household income is much less than it was with just my H working. Meanwhile, he ends up with far more disposable income, since he is now living in a two-income family. He never has to worry about unexpected non-medical expenses related to the kids ever again. He never has to worry about the cost of a new furnace or whatever, since she owns the house. And even in the case of medical expenses, I have to pay half of the insurance and a huge amount out-of-pocket before he has to contribute - and even then I have to get his permission first unless it is an emergency. If our kids needed braces, for instance, and his insurance didn't cover it, he wouldn't have to pay any of it if he chose not to. He rarely has to take care of them when they are sick. When they "fight too much" he can just refuse to see them all at once. He gets the best part of childrearing with little of the work. Sure he doesn't see them very much, but that would only be a problem if he actually wanted to see them more than he does. As long as you don't miss your kids, there is NO downside to leaving your family for a well-to-do OW. <P>He gets to see the kids pretty much whenever he wants to, but does not have to if it is inconvenient. Most of the kids are so desparate for his love that they will gratefully accept whatever crumbs he throws their way, and never complain because they are afraid he will stop loving them. One of the kids was quite excited the other day because, "Dad actually seemed interested in what I was talking about for a change." And he apparently doesn't care that the older two want little or nothing to do with him - because that is their fault.

I have a feeling I will get the worst part because my wife's job supplies her the house. I have to leave and I was NOT the one with the EA, and not the one to be working both days and nights, weekends, except summer school vacations.<P>I am the one who discplines with the intend to understand, not "just do it my way and now, its convenient for me." She is staying at the school soi the kids will have a good education, but right now, she admits she is very, very impatient with the kids. She can't even parent correctly to get her d to school on time in the morning. I had to give her a workable approach to use. And she is a teacher.<P>I will not be looked on favorably

whenifindthetime,<P>I dont know how much her being a teacher means. My husbands OW is a special ed. teacher. Selfish people are selfish people no matter what they do for a living. She could care less about me or my son and the hurt she has caused us.<BR>Morality and principles dont seem to count anymore these days. Have you seen Random Hearts? That movie hits home. When the betrayed wife tells her friend, its only adultery. No one seems to care about that anymore, unless your in the middle of it.<BR>It's true no one cares. Least of all the two who are commiting the adultery. Our justice system should consider it harshly, but, thanks to no-fault divorce accountability for peoples actions never has to take place. The betrayers can go and trash people and not face responsibility. It sucks. <BR>I as a woman, have to agree with Nellie. My standard of living will drop substantially. I gave up my career to stay home with our son. He will marry this whore with her income and what she gets out of her husband and have a dandy little life. While I spend the next two years going to school and trying to start out all over again. My H has quit his job with his brothers company and started his own consulting business. That way he can hide all his assets and not have to be garnished. Just destroy our family and run off with this b@tch. Maybe for woman who were smart and didn't give up their careers to raise the family dont have it as bad. But, for us stay at home Moms it is a long road ahead starting completely over. Like I said before, it isn't the money that hurts the most its the smashing of your heart that is the killer.<BR>I keep praying to God that he will open his heart back up to me and rebuild our marriage. But, it seems hopeless. He has shut me completely out and only cares about some other mans wife. He told me he is going to marry her. They are both still married. Its insane!!!! Sorry to vent. It's getting to be too much to bear.<BR>If you are dumped by someone you love, you lose. Man or woman.<P><BR>Izzy,Fight for custody of you D. You will no doubt get joint custody. That seems to be the way the courts are leaning these days. Here in Arizona that is a given. <BR>I wish for the best for all the betrayed spouses here.<P>

Nellie,<BR> <BR>You are correct, I mistated my case. Its the betrayed parent who gets screwed both emotionaly and financially.<P>I guess old stereotypes die hard, we men still hear war stories how the x wife is living it up on the settlement while the husband is living in his car.<P>Somehow I think that's what would have happened to me if I had left the house and the kids to my x. I would have been paying her child support and alimony.<P>

Izzy,<P>I came very close to getting divorced from my Walk Away Wife, and willingly agreed to let her have the kids based upon my having unlimited access. There was a huge amount of trust required to do that, but I also felt that the youngest (5) really did need to be with mom.... who works out of the house. Then it was a matter of not wanting to split up all three kids (others are 12 & 15). I spent a lot of night crying over that decision, but I still think it was the best one for the kids.<P>A big part my beoing able to do that was that my W and I really do trust each other and she was very fair in the legal aspects of her planned departure. Interestingly, she just called it all off (once the details started to become real) and intends to stay, which is really great news!<P>That's my 2 cents...

Chuck,<P>That is great news about your w wanting to stay. I was beginning to wonder if that reality stuff really worked.<P>My x has been gone since 7-99 and we have been divorced since 2-00 and she still is in dream land.<P>As for trust, I no longer have any for mine. Twice I have done things behind her back based on finances because I did not trust her. The one time I came clean because my concious was bothering me and she caught on. The other hasn't bothered me a bit.<P>I think she may have agreed with me(it had to do with taxes and her claiming a kid for 99) and what I did, but all I could hear her saying(in my head) was give me that money,its mine, so I neglected something that was written in a divorce decree.<P>Bob

okay betrayed men who were primary earners get shafted !! and yes betrayed women who were at home moms, and now need to go out and work for more money get somewhat shafted !!<P>Just got back from another lawyer consult. I will now get triple shafted. Lose my wife, lose primary custody of child, send 20% of my net take home pay to stbx, and still pay 50% of childcare for when stbx works. So let's see, my wife works 4 days a week right now, and if whe wants to work one more day she can make money and have me pay half of the chilcare. Or, she could cut back to 3 days a week (because she can afford to with child support) and have it be like before except she can do what she wants about her boyfriend or her social life because I don't have any say. Lovely, kick us while were down =(<BR>Sorry just had to vent !<BR>My lawyer reasserted, that unless my wive has proven to be unfit (and no morality does not count, unless it can be proven my child has been detrimentally affected by it all, (next to impossible for short term effects) the court will grant her sole custody or joint custody residential parent. Either way I'm out money, out time with my daughter, out my wife (yeah, I still want(ed) her back), and probably out of the house, since I probably can't afford to keep it after it's all done (unless I want to be house poor). <BR>He was actually pretty reasonable and gave good advise. He said I had to be reasonable, and civil in any of the proceedings if I wanted to maintain any future civility (ugh, I know he's right). If I go in with guns blazing, calling her names (like I want to call her behavior), and put her on the defensive she basically holds all the cards. So yeah more plan A just to get a fair deal in court. And a fair deal even at 50% of assets put's her in a better place to go along with her now found "love". Better go and vent outside !!<P>i will respond to you all, but give me some time to vent this all out<p>[This message has been edited by izzy (edited May 01, 2000).]

I agree with your lawyer that it is bad strategy for you to go in and call her a bunch of names. Now I really don't know how it is in Ill., but I would think that if you stay in the house and can document that you have been with the children more, you stand a good chance of getting custody.<P>I would suggest that you look at the Fathers Rights to Custody homepage. Lots of good resources to help you, including lawyers that are sympathetic to equal parenting time for fathers. The URL is <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody." TARGET=_blank>www.deltabravo.net/custody.</A> <P>I got lots of good information there. Hopefully you can, too.

I recommend checking the laws in your jurisdiction as they vary in different states and countries. In Canada, where I live, a recent Supreme Court ruling set a precident awarding lifelong support for a spouse if he/she was supported during the marriage. That means in my case I will be on the hook for supporting my wife for the rest of her life, since she is a self-employed artist (income almost nil) and stay-at-home mother. This is over and above child support payments for or 5 year old D. The amount of support awarded is adjusted if her income increases (not likely). If she remarries support can be cut off.<P>And here, as in the US, morals don't count.<P>Cheers

How long would you have to pay alimony/support to your wife? I know it varies from state to state but it seems like the support for life payments are going except in Canada.<P>I guess if you both refuse to leave the house, you will have to sell it and split the proceeds and then you both will be house poor. I guess that would be the way to go if punishment is in your mind. But it doesn't seem fair for you to have to support her if it is above her means. She needs to take a step back in housing.<P>God Bless<P>Bob

I know in my case, Major League shaft. I have been the breadwinner (low 60s salary) while my W will contribute about $5K annually. Well, after D-Day and a quick try at recovery, my W got sick of my withdrawal and wants a divorce. At first glance, to support her and my three kids, I will provide her with $436 a week cash for the next 15 years, lose the house, but will probably receive a promissary note for around $60K + interest (and receive it 15 years later), lose all deductions in income taxes, with possibly the exception of dependents (which is negotiable), pay alimony, reduce my opportunities to work a second job (she may fight for 50% of that), lose half of my 401K ($140K), half of my pension ($30K). I will never own another house or a new car. I have no where to take my kids when I have them, no money to spend on them. Last week I was suicidal, this week I am pissed. How can I survive on this pittance and be a good Dad at the same time. No wonder why guys flip out and beat on their spouse, commit suicide, or just plain run away. I hate to think that I will do this, but my only Ace is the fact I can make the kids pay by never seeing them. Make her doing all the caring, be two and three places at once. If that's what she wants, that's what she'll get. What a terrible thought. But if I have no money, no home, no nothing, what am I going to do? Take them in my sh_tbox and eat day-old donuts? Unbelievable. My marriage s_cked, but it surely is "cheaper to keep her" and simply masturbate.