My W said that one night, she snapped, and has decided without warning, that she wants out, (early Feb)and she told me my Plan A'ing won't change her mind, it is made up.<P>After long conversations (mostly one sided, I might add,) she is just minutely beginning to understand how she has contributed. Any time before it was all my fault, and sarcastically told me she accepts 50% responsibility. <BR>She also considers harley's HNHN book sexist, and she didn't agree with some of it.<P>So I would like to hear from any W who has snapped and made the D decision suddenly and without consideration of marriage counseling, and unable to consider any other option.<P>What were the reasons why and why not consider any mc?<P>thanks for the insight in advance.<P>thl

OK, I do not fit your desired respondent .<P>But, FWIW, I think the person who snaps and does not want to try counseling is generally without hope that things can get better. Why try & maybe get hurt again, when you KNOW it won't help. I think that what a good PlanA does is give the other a view of a new, improved you...reason to hope again. The less hope they start out with, the longer and more flawless your Plan A will have to be to see results.<P>Just my 2 cents...will be interested to see what "snappees" say...

Well, I'm not the W who snapped. It was my H who snapped and I'm the victim. I think that the reason he is refusing counsoling is simply because he so caught up in the present that he can't envision the future. So I put him on Plan B. No contact unless necessary. My hope is that isolating him might show him what he is missing, and meanwhile, it will prepare me for his departure from my life if he chooses to continue our separation and eventual divorce.<P>But I think the other reason spouse's refuse counsoling is that intimacy in the relationship has broken down to the point where one spouse cannot bear to express their feelings to their spouse. I know that my H doesn't want to talk to me because he can't deal with the pain he is giving to me and I can't talk to him because I can't deal with the pain he is giving me. So until each of us can work through our pain and each recognize the reasons why we should continue our marriage, I think that it is best that we remain separated, living in different cities, and only communicating when necessary and we can do it without hurting each other.<P>Karel

Your situation sounds so familiar. My W says that she "realized" in Jan that she just didn't have any hope for our marriage to thrive - that we could continue in a "business" partnership of working out daily logistics but that she didn't believe it would ever be more than that. Consequently, she now wants no more than that. Found OM as an "excuse" to break up our marriage. Zero hope on her part. <P>Likewise unwilling to consider any contributions that she made to our relationship reaching the state it was in - only willing to look, through a powerful microscope and with full recall of every negative incident in our ten year history, at my contributions (which admittedly are substantial). Similarly W unwilling to look at any counseling or options other than divorce.<P>Ironic that the only respondents to date are spouses of W who "snapped." I guess the snapped ones aren't present on this board? That premise seems to be consistent with their lack of any willingness to look at rebuilding the marriage - maybe that's why we are here and they are not.<P>My response is to continue to 1) Plan A to the best of my ability and 2) pray for strength, committment, and wisdom for myself and an opening of my wife's eyes to see the potential that our relationship holds. What else has hope of restoring our marriage?<P>Remember to "trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not on you own understanding. In all they ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct all your paths." What direction those paths will take is not our concern. Our concern is to trust in and act in accordance with His will.<P>You are in my thoughts and prayers.<BR>

Also, "unable to consider any other option" should read "unwilling to consider any other option. I firmly believe that love and relationships are about volitional decisions, not fuzzy feelings. The romantic love in a relationship will of necessity ebb and flow, what holds people together is a committment and a will to do so.<P>I think that is part of the biggest struggle I face in dealing effectively with my wife right now. How can a mature, rational, semi-sane individual willfully make the contempably selfish decision that to h*ll with their family, responsibilities, and obligations; how can that individual decide that short-term fulfillment overshadows all other concerns in life? This is particularly hard for me as my wife states she wants to "do what is best for the children" but is unwilling to even consider working toward rebuilding a stable, loving, household including both of their parents. <P>I want to be able to look in the mirror every day for the rest of my life and KNOW, beyond a doubt, that I did everything within my power to try and rebuild our marriage at this time of crisis.

I am the snapee in my marriage. Though, I gave the decision a lot of thought, my H would say it came out of the blue. My marriage was pretty much one sided for many years. I did everything and waited on my H like he was the lord and master. I was unhappy and would often tell him I was lonely, unhappy, etc. He denounced my revelations as nagging. As time went on things got uglier and I became more resentful. I work in a program for divorced and separated and know quite a bit about family law, etc. Knowing what I did, I did not want a divorce, but wanted to work things out. And then....I did something completely stupid; I had an EA via the internet. I told myself we were just pen pals and it wasn't a big deal. Deep down I knew I was playing a dangerous game, so I went to H again and told him I was lonely, could we talk, etc. Again, he told me to stop being over emotional and ignored me. Fast forward to January; H discovers the EA and goes absolutely insane. I told him point blank things either change or we are done. Again, knowing what I know, I asked two marriage counselors I work with how successful counseling is. Their prognosis wasn't very optomistic, but I decided to give it a go anyhow. Fast forward to May, my H was served papers last week. Even now, he claims he was happy and had no idea I wasn't. I don't know how he could not know it. Aside from taking a bull horn and announcing it across the state, I know I was vocal on the subject. <P>Anyway, everyone is different, but it often seems that the person on the recieving end of the snap, doesn't know what happened. I'm sure it seems that way, but the decision to divorce usually doesn't happen suddenly. I know I had thought about it off and on for the last five years. <BR>

Hi, I'm Lor, both snapper & snappee (gee, the things you think you'd never get to say). I had an affair 10 years ago, when the time came to "snap" I wanted my marriage, but if the OM hadn't been such a scoundrel...he wanted just me, not my, at that time, preschool children. Anyway, I turned my back to the OM & directed my whole attention to the marriage, I thought recovery went great. I never strayed again.<P>2 years ago my H began an affair, a few months later, he "snapped", he felt I wasn't meeting his needs, I wasn't who he wanted anymore, etc. Even not knowing about MB, I was Plan A behavior, afterall, I KNEW a betrayer could be brought around. When my H left me for the 7th time this past Jan., I "snapped". And then all my Plan A kicked in on my H, he then wanted the marriage. I couldn't see trusting him again and there was a man who was sooo nice.<P>But like the others have said, I didn't believe my H could or would meet my needs, I didn't trust him, he had betrayed me (and there are lots of kinds of betrayal in marriage besides infidelity). He had felt those same things about me. I went at first to counseling without him, then we went together, then I went, then together (repeat the cycle I think 2-3 times), then he went alone, now I've agreed to go again, after refusing for almost 3 months.<P>WIFTT--An empty lovebank hurts. She doesn't know that your Plan A won't change things, she hasn't experienced it longterm. I can tell you from being both the giver and the receiver, Plan A is powerful stuff. It is hard to get through to the spouse when there is an OP involved, but it still registers as love, but a few lovebusters can wipe away tons of Plan A. That's why you stay away from LBs. Nothing stays the same, especially the circumstances of an affair.<P>I'd encourage you to continue with Plan A, through separations, through whatever for 6 months as Dr. Harly recommends, THEN you will know you did your best and can make a better decision to go on from there (more Plan A, Plan B...)<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi,<P>I have snapped on several occations. It never gets to the point where Tony leaves. A couple of times I really wished he would have. I really need the space from all the pain he has given me. <P>We are working hard on rebuilding. I think he is also working on fixing himself. He has apologized over and over for his actions. I am not getting my hope up because everytime I do he lets me down again. I am just working on me. And I hope he is doing the same. <P>If I "snap" again because of his affairs that is it. I can not live through this pain anymore. It is too hard to keep being pulled back down after all the exhausting rebuilding. I constantly worry about Tony cheating again. This stress is a killing me. He has a three year long history of cheating on me off and on again. So at a certain point we just give up.

Dear WhenIfind the time:<P>I'm trying NOT to snap, very hard. I waffle and waver, especially when my H does something that goes against my self-respect. I ask myself "If your friend told you her H did or said this thing, or neglected to do or say that thing, and kept doing it, would you tell her to swallow her pride and hang in there? Or would you tell her 'If he doesn't respect you, you've only got one other person in the marriage relationship who can; you've got to have self-respect.'" At that point I can talk myself into a whole fantasy of calling a lawyer, getting a locksmith to change the locks, and getting a set-up for a new household arrangement that would pay the bills, as well as stepping up counseling for our child as support through this difficult transition. Some incidents have happened during the last few years that to my mind are outrageous enough to justify at least a separation. <P>I don't know if there is a straw that could break the camel's back. I look with hope to the fact that H has reluctantly but at least HAS entered mc, with a good degree of passive-aggressive behaviors (forgets to do the homework) but he does come to the mc office.<P>Lonelysoul,<P>I initiated a conversation this past summer with my H, told him this marriage was lonely, hoping to open a dialogue. Instead he revealed that he had no more romantic or sexual feelings for me, hadn't for years, and hoped we could stay together until our son is old enough to go out on his own. BTW he has been in an EA for years, a Big bone of contention between us, and it got worse and worse. Since the Big Conversation I have begun to see this EA as a large symptom of the lack of intimacy, and he sees my intolerance of it as just one more thing on his list of my selfish attitudes and actions. The friendship with this woman is the one thing we argue most hotly about. They only contact each other via phone, e-mail, and he sneaks visits to her office. I hope to outlast this thing through marriage counseling. He refuses after these several years to see that he's in an affair of the heart and that his main emotional and spiritual energy focuses on the OW. He does all the dutiful things with us, but it's clear his heart is not in it.<P>I come here thankfully to vent, to lurk and learn, and to put off snapping.<P>Dear Lor, So the OM didn't want your (then) pre-school age children, and you refused to abandon them? He was a bum, and you're a good mother. Bravo! Nice to meet you!<BR>

i guess you could say i snapped. after 3 years of my H being in love with another woman (from an EA to living with her and everything in between), i could not take the lies anymore. i've been at the end of my rope for a long time. i kicked him a couple times and he had me arrested. i keep threatening to leave, but i have two very young children.<BR>i thought the "snap" would be a 3 day crying jag, as i felt it coming, but no, the lies drove me to violence.<BR>oh well, im not sure if that is wnat you were asking, but the answer was LIES. he lied, lied, lied.<BR>the thought of me having an affair to get back at him, or for any other reason, disgusts me, and i won't even consider it, but he has blamed me of it, nonetheless.<BR>what a mess.<BR>i just wanted the pain to end, you know?<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.go.to/wcu" TARGET=_blank>loveWASblind</A>

Thanks for the response. I am certain that my W snapped because she was unhappy, and a STBXH that "looks tempting" came along, and said, "Lets go tot the gym and work out together."<P>She is in love with muscles and working out with her athletic trainer. He only shows up<BR>a couple of times every other week, and<BR>supposedly is going to Kosovo for 18 months in the army. So now she moves from bulemia to working out 2-4 hours per day. I think moving from one obsessive, compulsive activity to another is a sign that nothing has changed within her, except the activity. But she admits, now she doesn't sleep well, 3-5 hours a night, even after working out. Hmmmm, she doesn't sound too healthy to me. <BR>Could she be having doubts? <P>She has said that she has been unhappy with us for years, and said one night it was ALL my fault, and the HNHN book is sexist, and said, "ending the relationship is FOR ME!"<BR>and that the kids will just have to get used to it.<P>I could go on, but I have to leave work to go home.<P>thanks again,<P>thl<BR>

Karel,<P>My wife has never been able to envision the future. She only has vague ideas of what she wants to do with her life, and the OM has really taken the future away from her. This morning was unbelievably foggy and warm, she went for walk, complained about the humidity and heat, and then went and put a long dress on. I cracked up laughing, and she realized she couldn't even think farther ahead than the current minute.<P>Texan,<P>The anger and the confusion makes them forget the good times. I have been there, both PA and EA, 10 yrs ago. It does a number on the brain, but humans are the different animal, we can think, and that can be dangerous!<P>Plan A does help, but we will see.<P>Lonely Soul, <P>Both of us have thought about it over the last two years, after I got very frustrated with my W. She communicates in B&W with anger and projection. Puts me immediately on the defensive as well as my being over my head in my job for the first two years didn't help.<P>I tried to talk, but got the anger. Wife refuses the mc because this time she knows she would have to change too much, and she hates change. I do point out the LB's she uses all the time after I read the book, and now she says she can't talk to me because she never knows what she will say. Yikes, can you say no communication, no intimacy!<P>Lor<P>You and I are identical, except for the position, I am the H. I had affair 10 years ago also, I thought the recovery went great, but now I hear my W resents the fact that we did everything my way, and now it's her turn.<BR>My wife is in an EA, and I have never strayed PA since, but small EA when turning 40, hardly anything except in my mind, wanting something better when turning 40. The OW never knew!<P>I saw the EA immediately since the stuff she was saying was exactly the stuff I said 10 years ago. I talked to her about it. I stopped cold turkey, even while working with the OW at grad school. I found I couldn't run away from myself I told her about what is happening, and hoped that she would see herself the way I did. You can only change yourself, yadi, yadi, yadi . . .<P>Hopefully Plan A is working, it seems to be and her OM is not around enough. But she has friends that encourage affairs for self gratification, the worst kind of friends. . .<P>Bellevue,<P>it is hard sometimes, as I know a tumultuous relationship is not the best, but we keep trying and hoping things will get better.<P>LWB,<P>that was OK to snap, don't<BR>t worry about that, I would support that.<BR>I would snap long before that. My W can't move out, its her required place of employment, so it is I who must, the non snapee, the non EA.<P>everyone,<P>thanks again, this is a great place to learn about human emotions, reactions and strategies.<P>lots of love to everyone!<P>thl<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B>So I would like to hear from any W who has snapped and made the D decision suddenly and without consideration of marriage counseling, and unable to consider any other option.<P>What were the reasons why and why not consider any mc?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am the betrayed spouse. When I first found out about the affair, I filed for divorce the next day. No discussion. Nothing to talk about. <P>Why? Because I had already been down that painful road with my 1st husband and wasn't about to repeat that scenario. My H knew this and still chose to be with another woman. We'd talked about infidelity before and he knew my intolerance for it. He knew that going there was a one way street to singlehood! We also discussed that if either of us ever began to feel that cheating was an option, we'd discuss our feelings openly with each other and allow the other some dignity and respect. Well, that conversation never happened.<P>I did go to counseling alone, but not for the purpose of reconciling. My H told me I "needed help", so I went to remove any doubt of my sanity. (Therapist said I was completely balanced, but that was before I learned there was a child too! ha!)<P>About three months later, I felt the obligation to explore things and realized that I truly loved this man and could forgive him. Ironically, I asked him to go to counseling, but he wouldn't. Took three more months before he finally did. <P>Anyway, to make a long story short. In our case, we tried. Hasn't made a difference in the outcome. Our divorce will be final soon, but I can leave now knowing I did everything I could.

WIFTT,<P>I am not the one who "snapped" but I am the victim. My ex walked out on xmas, cried to me for a month, he wanted to come home, then 2 weeks later, filed divorce to marry the OW. <P>He snapped cause he thought with the wrong brain. He snapped, because he thought the grass would be greener on the other side. He snapped because he thought he found something better.<P>Almost five months later, he is trying to hold the divorce up, one because I am sure he doesn't want to marry this OW he so desperately loved. Two, because he misses his old life, and three, because he is waking up a little. <P>Its been my experience, that the people who walk from a marriage, without any counseling, trying to save it, guilt that you can see, it is usually because they are having an affair. And to go further, when they wake up, they want their old life back. What you chose to do with it at that point, is entirely up to you. Lor gave you great advice, and she knows what she is talking about.<P>Myself, being the one who got snapped on, will not allow that to happen again. No more chances for him. He can regret it the rest of his life, but I'm moving on to happiness and trust, without him. <P>Plan A and be strong, Dana<BR>