I'm still new here - 2nd post. Last week I posted about going through a divorce while still living with the stbx and only got one response. Well, hopefully more will have an opinion on this child custody arrangement question...<P>I proposed to my stbx that I have our 6 year old son every week on Weds. & Thurs. nights with alternating weekends. However, with this scenario, Thurs. mornings and Friday mornings, I would have to wake up my son at 5:45am, put him in the car and drive him to his mom's so she can get him ready for school, etc. I want 50% custody, but my hours at work are not flexible to accomodate this morning routine. STBX refuses to agree saying that waking him up out of a sound sleep for the sole purpose of obtaining 50% custody is not in his best interest. Our son presently does not even get up until after 7am and she gets him to school in the mornings. STBX has counter proposed that we should keep things as familiar as possible to him, the least distruption - she wants son to be with her overnite during the weekdays, and alternating weekends. She also has offered to let me pick him up everyday after school and keep him until she gets home from work or later if I want. I would also get him overnight every Friday nite.<P>I seem to be stuck in this wanting to have my son 2 nites per week and alternating weekends even though his routine would be quite altered. Am I being stubborn and selfish?<P>Please let me know what you all think would be in our 6 year olds best interests...<P>Thanks.

First off, none of it should be about what you want. It should be what is best for your child. I agree with your stbx on this one, getting him up that early stinks! It only gets harder as they get older too. It sounds like she's making a huge effort to make sure that you are able to see your son a lot. Offering you the opportunity to pick him up after work most nights is above and beyond anything most courts would give you. Unfortunately the standard is every other weekend and maybe one night per week if you leave it up to the court system.

<BR>I'm really torn on this one. My own view is that 50% custody is best for the children, but your inflexible schedule makes this difficult to arrange, obviously. Compounding matters is the unfairly high child support awards being meted out these days - once a custodial parent gets on that gravy train they never want to get off. Have you considered changing jobs to get a more flexible schedule?<P>Bystander

Sounds to me like you are not living in the same town as kids/mom. If you want 50/50, and you should, you need to live very close so that it is workable for all. When my kids are with me during the week, they catch the bus from my house.

Thanks for your opinions. STBX is living in the same town as I. In fact, still in the same house although once the D is final I will move into an apartment closeby. <P>ChocChip - It would be great if my son could hop a bus to take to school, but daycare is not available until 7AM and I have to be at work at the same time. In order for me to have my son overnight during the week, I would have to be able to drive him to his mothers on those two mornings and get him there by 6:15 am to be able to still be at work on time. This would require me to wake him up very early. (read the details in my original post) <P>Bystander - I am not being required to pay that much in child support as my stbx wife and I earn relatively close to the same amount of money. She is very opposed to my having to wake up our son 2 hours earlier than he now gets up so that I could keep him overnight during the week. She believes the courts will agree with her citing that I would be completely altering his routine just so I could say I have him overnight 2 nights per week.<P>Bonnie Sept - Your response is exactly what my stbx wife sounds like. But I believe that this custody thing is all about what I want and believe is in our son's best interests. Why shouldn't I be able to keep him overnight during the week? I was the one who chose not to work on this marriage, but I feel this is her way of punishing me. The divorce in itself will already alter his lifestyle. Isn't this custody thing just another thing he'll have to get use to?

I kinda like the every afternoon thing. My stbx and I di the midweek thing. She had them on Wed nights. She lived 25 miles from his school and had to get him up at 5:30 to get him to school by 7:30 (L.A. traffic, you know). He would come home after school and go right to sleep.<P>I don't like 50-50, expecially when the other party is living with the one that broke up the marriage. My feeling is that you decided to leave, you take the consequences. One of those is that you lose custody. But I digress.<P>Good Luck to you.

Starting Over,<P>I admit to being biased with this response because I had suggested a similar arrangement with my H (which he disagreed to BTW).<P>In our situation H is already out of the home (residing with OW in an apt in the same town) since we are in the process of the Big D. Currently arrangement is 2 nights during week and alternating weekends.<P>H's work hrs are earlier than mine. When we were together it worked out fairly well that I would drop child off to walk child onto campus like the other Moms; Dad would pick child up and do Father-Child things in the afternoon.<P>Dad is insistent that child have consistency & structure so wants me to change my work hours so that I can adhere to the schedule Dad is using. Child is 8 and is to be in bed by 8 p.m. (while same-age friends go to bed at 9 p.m.) so child may be awakened at 6 a.m. (vs. 7 a.m.) to get ready for before-school care on Dad's days. On Mom's days child is generally last child or nearly last child in after-school care since Mom isn't willing to change hours to match Dad's (Mom is salaried so even if I arrive at work earlier there is no guarantee that I'm able to leave earlier ).<P>My proposal was for child to be picked up in the afternoons by Dad and continue Father-child activities including sports, homework, and dinner then Mom would pick child up from apt (by 7 p.m.) for homework review and bedtime routine (at 9 p.m.) then taken to school in the morning (without using the before-school care).<P>Child would be sleeping in same bed during weeknights and interacting with both parents on a nearly daily basis (alternating weekends to continue); from my perception sleeping time would not impact the 50/50 arrangement that we have, esp since our agreement states that we have the leeway to change the arrangment as long as both parties are agreeable.<P>The reason H disagreeable to suggestion is it cuts into date nights with OW (per him) and views situation as me trying to put child between him & OW. So much for best interest of the child in this situation.<P>You know yourself, your stbx, and child best...what is the reason motivating you to try your suggested schedule compared to her suggested schedule. From your post, it appears your stbx is being accomodating under the circumstances having suggested that you get to pick up child daily after school and spend time with child as long as you want.<P>As you've already acknowledged, the D is already altering child's lifestyle. Best Wishes and hopefully you'll make a decision that will benfit your child during this transition .

Hi again,<P>I can appreciate your responses but feel you are all agreeing (or at least it appears that way) with the stbx wife.<P>If I am willing to pick up son everyday after school to accomodate her later work schedule, why can't she accomodate me on the two mornings I would have to drop off our son to accomdate my schedule? Seems she is getting what she wants. <P>Okay, I have to agree that waking him up at 5:45am seems an ungodly hour for a 6 year old, but if it means I can keep him overnite, that's really what I want.<P>STBX says she wants the court to decide if this is really in his best interest. If the judge rules in my favor with the arrangement I want, she won't like it, but will have to go along with it. She's so convinced no judge will agree with my proposal she's willing to take that chance. I'm just afraid the court will decide her position of changing what our son is accustomed to will win out over mine. <P>Any other comments?

I am sorry, but I have to agree. This doesn't sound like a very stable situation for a small child. It may give you shared custody, but the price to the child is too high. <P>This situation also keeps you in so much contact with the ex. I think it's better for everyone to find a different answer.

Starting,<P>I am in almost the same boat as you. I have a 3yr old D, and since our separation last August we have done the 50/50 thing. Now my stbx wife is pushing for an 8/6 or 9/5 split in the two weeks (every other weekend still) in her favor. I am fighting her on it.<P>We are just about getting ready for a mediator (she finally wants to meet with one, now I don't after offering in March). My case is a little different, in that I feel it is in the best interests of my child she be with me at least 50% of the time. Why? Well, I may be self-righteous but I don't want my daughter being primarily raised in a home where stbx is still having her affair (not shacking up,though), and her lack of morals and values concern me. <BR>In talking to my lawyer, I am getting ready to file for primary residential under joint custody option. It's my best shot, even though the odds are still against me. <BR>In your case, I think the courts would not consider waking your son up in his best interests. You have to make sure all your decisions are for him, not you or ex. Someone else suggested trying to get a more flexible job. I am for that, as a matter of fact I am considering it for myself depending on the Divorce proceedings. I have to be careful cuz my ex, has two weekdays off and if she wins primary and child support because of more time with child, she basically gets it all (her cake, her lover, her child, and money). Yeah, I am a little biased about that, but mostly the lack of values has driven to want the custody situation more in my favor for my daughter. Good luck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can appreciate your responses but feel you are all agreeing (or at least it appears that way) with the stbx wife.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Uhhh...no. What we are giving you is our opinion of what is best for your son. That's what you asked for in your original post, remember?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Please let me know what you all think would be in our 6 year olds best interests...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So now that we think that your plan is not in your son's best interest, we are agreeing with the stbx. No. Your ideas are not always the right ones (I know, I have this tendency, too). Get as much time as you can, but inconvenience yourself, not your child.<P>[This message has been edited by grandpabri2 (edited July 11, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by grandpabri2 (edited July 11, 2000).]

I would not like my girls woke up that early....heck, I don't even like to get up that early.<P>Bystander.......you need to check out child support now adays.....you are wrong. My ex clears over 5,000.00 a month.....but our girls only receive 700.00 a month. Does that sound like "too much" money to raise 2 girls to you?<P>I'm sorry...Starting Over...needed to get that out.<P>Anyway......I wish that these children never had to go through this....their lives are torn apart so much now.....they don't need all of this added stress.<P>Maybe you can have overnights on vacation days....more than every other weekend.....maybe every Sunday night so he only has to get up one day a week so early......heck I don't know.....not used to a father wanting to see his children.<P>Nancy<P>

I have a divorced female neighbor with three boys - ages 4, 8 and 11.<P><BR>Her exhusband is a great dad. They have 50/50 custody, they alternate weeks.<P>It is destroying the kids. The oldest has real psychological problems, the middle has developed a stutter, and the baby is always crying. They have no place to call home, its like they live out of a suitcase, they have no real friends. My heart goes out to them, that these parents don't see what they are doing to them. <P>What is the solution? Divorce is horrible.

<BR>MENTAL,<P>One of the problems of child support calculation is that its based on an erroneous, one-size-fits-all cost model that is "presumptively correct." You ask is $700 "too much" to raise two daughters, but without looking at the *actual* (not presumptive) cost structure the question is unanswerable. Certainly there are CPs who receive less and are doing fine; imagine your husband's CS award if you netted $150,000 a year yourself and owned your home outright. Further, until we begin using actual costs instead of presumtptive costs, child support awards are many times (IMO, the majority of times) a form of veiled alimony, which is illegal.<P>As for checking out child support laws, this is in fact what I've been doing. And the more I research this, the more I'm convinced the system need a major overhaul. Generally speaking, the presumptive cost model has lead to excessive CS awards. The exception is the case of very-low income single mothers (i.e., annual income in the $8,000 range). In this class of cases, the absence of a self-support reserve in most states' legislation leads to a situation in which the CP is unable to provide for themself, let alone the children.<P>I realize this issue is inflammatory, but if we're going to threaten people with debtor's prison (can you believe we still run debtor's prisons? Jean Val Jean, grab your loaf of bread!), I think it behooves us as a society to at least get the CS numbers right. Assuming that every divorcing couple spends *exactly* the same amount on their children is prima facie ludicrous.<P>Bystander

I have to disagree with you about the child support guidelines - they are much more in line with the costs of raising children. It is very expensive. Here, they take the combined income, have the grid for income vs. # of children, and a dollar amount. the percentage each parent contributed to that amount is determined by salary. In my case, it was about a 60/40 split. I am very comfortable with the amount, and if he were to have custody, would not have a problem paying him the share I would be required to pay.<P>There are just to many cases of injustice from the past where cases were decided by who had the better lawyer, or what way the judge leaned.<P>And when you start adding all the extras in that I pay as the custodial parent, even with the greater amount of money I have every month, he still has more "disposal" income than I. My monthly expenses are much higher than his, taking care of a family, vs. one person.<P>Another thing I have to prepare for is college. He as adamant that he would not be responsible for any of those expenses. When my boys turn 18, I am it. What child doesn't need support during college? <P>I see the guidelines as the first step toward an equitable division of cost. What I see, as an inequity, is the mother getting custody all the time. Not the support payments.

<BR>h.w.,<P>The custody issue is a whole 'nother discussion.<P>As far as costs, again, you are basing your view solely on your situation. I suspect that if challenged, you could actually document that your CS award is in line with actual costs. That's great. But why do you support laws that don't require an accounting of actual costs, rather than support laws that occaisionally stumble into a fair award, as is your case? Certainly there are many cases where a CP is being paid far too much, and these are a direct result of the bogus cost structure in the current system. As an example, I know of a woman who gets so much in CS that she has hired a nanny to watch her children, yet refuses to increase the NCP's time with the children because it would mean lower CS payments, which she is obviously using to raise her personal standard of living. Rather than get to see his kids, he gets to pay a nanny to raise them so his ex-wife can spend all her time on her hobbies. This system is just sick, IMO.<P>Bystander<BR>

IMO the states that at least take into consideration BOTH parents income is a bit more reasonable then what we have here in the state of MN. It doesn't matter what the CP makes at all. CS is decided only on the NCP's income. In Mental's case, raising two children here in MN with an ex that has a net salary per month of $5,000 would get her a minimium of $1,500 per mo. That would be BEFORE the judge decided how much he should pay towards daycare costs. And the kicker is that the Judge most likely would only give the NCP minimal visitation (every other weekend). Of course, if the CP is generous and offers more (say even 50% - 70% total time to the NCP) the NCP would STILL have to pay the entire cs costs to the CP that doesn't even have the kids half the time. You could ALSO have a NCP that makes about 20,000 per year paying a CP that makes 100,000 per year child support. Hardly leaves that poor parent that doesn't have custody enough money to house their children when they are in their care! <P>Heck, my ex makes just a little bit less then my husband does. I receive around 700.00 per month for 2 kids and my husband pays out $2,000 per month for 2 kids? How did that happen? I actually had to argue with the courts to have my child support REDUCED because I didn't want my ex to be left with nothing to live on, which is what the courts will do in MN. They never once cared about my income (which is decent). They only cared about how much they could get out of my ex. Then they tried to say that since we were married for 12 years I could get alimony too! Excuse me? I turned that down. Now, my husband's ex makes approximately 50,000 all on her own. She's getting alimony for 6 years when she was married for 5. How screwed up is MN?<P>

I believe the formulas are pretty darn accurate - but you are right, they are accurate here - it isn't just my settlement, but anyone's (who has a decent attorney) in this state. The health insurance, day care, and other types of expenses that do vary greatly are calculated in the monthly expense separately. I was quite impressed with the system. I sat down and figured out all the expenses, and it came to within 100 dollars of the amount on the table. Not bad for accuracy. It is too bad every state doesn't have it. If your state had it, you would be singing its praises, I'm sure.<P>As far as the woman who has the nanny, unless that was an expense she had before, my guess is it isn't a Mary Poppins type nanny that comes to mind, but something more like an au pair. I have one - and believe me, it isn't wonderful it is a real pain. Day care is a terrible thing to subject children to, but I put up with the extra expense (which is totally on me as far as car insurance, food, etc), and irritation of having these girls in my house, and banging up my car, and generating extra work for me for my childrens sake. Believe me, its not a luxury - it is an imposition. I am counting the days till September, when both boys are in school all day, and I'll be able to alter my schedule for them to be in daycare about 2 hours after school. All my vacation leave will be spent taking care of the kids when they are home sick or on school break, but what a relief to have the house to myself again. Oh, and my ex's support payment will go down too, I just am hoping he wants to pitch in with the days off. We'll see.<BR> <BR>

Well, I didn't think I'd get responses about child support money but it is an interesting topic. Here in CA, support is decided on how much income both parties earn and the percentage of time spent with the non custodial parent. Hence the very big desire on my part to get 50% custody.<P>I would like to not pay a dime to the stbx even though I make more money than her, I consider her to be earning a decent living and shouldn't need any of my money. I know that's wishful thinking. I offered to pay 1/2 the cost of private school tuition in lieu of paying her any child support, but she and her lawyer say that private school is totally a voluntary thing and independant of court mandated support. I am required to pay 1/2 of all day care expenses also. <P>I know I was miserable enough to have an affair, but I guess now I can say I would learn to remain miserable in the marriage just not to have to go through all this baloney.

My ex has to cover the health and dental insurance.....I have to pay for all the rest. He covers NO book rental, day care, school clothes, school supplies, both my daughters need braces.....nope...no help there.<P>He gets a reduction...57.00 a week for visitation. Of course......he has them for about 65% of his visitation time.<P>I'm sorry but I was a stay at home mom. He wanted it that way. I scrimped and saved for "our" future. Every extra dollar went to further "his" career. Nice car...clothes....nice home for "entertaining" his clients. I loved him and made sure that the girls and him received everything. I gave up a lot for "my" family.<P>I want the girls to live in a "decent" part of town.<P>I make about 850.00 a month. As of today, he makes 98,000.00 a year. He refuses to pay for anything other than child support. I'm sorry but I see a problem in the system. My rents is 550.00 a month. Utilities are 225.00 ( approx) a month. Phone is approx 100.00 a month. Clothes, food, insurance, gas, toys, entertainment, sports...etc. is very expensive. I love my girls.......wnat everything for them and I will see that they get it. I will provide for them because their father feels 700.00 is just too much anyway. Selfishness....vindictiveness....just plain being mean is his "new" life and he is hurting his children....his own flesh and blood.<P>Nancy