Yesterday I exploded! My ex had been allowing the ow to pick up my son from daycare (during his summer visitation with ex). According to the divorce he cannot make this sort of decision regarding the children as I am primary custodian. I lost it and exchanged some words with ex. He said some very nasty things to me. <P>Well, several hours later he calls whining about how he doesn't have any money and probably won't be taking the kids on their next visitation. He can't afford them. Of course, I'm thinking "So, whos fault is that?", but I kept my mouth shut. <P>Anyway, this seems to have become a pattern with him. He'll say all sort of nasty things when he screws up then later he is nice or at least civil. <P>I also spoke with ow's h. He said all she does is call him wanting to come home and saying she screwed up. He won't take her back as this is not the first time she has taken off with another man out of state. <P>Both ow and my ex are devastated financially. Ow has two jobs. And my ex never has any money. He said he couldn't take the kids to their gym class because he couldn't afford the gas. <P>It sounds to me like they have to stick together because they have gotten themselves in such a bind. Especially since she is wanting her H back. Ow's H told me she will be gone as soon as she finds someone better (with money). She always thinks the grass is greener. Has anyone read any statistics on such behavior? Is this normal?

Hey Tulip,<BR> How are you doing?<BR> Better than yesterday?<BR> <BR>I think some people are always looking for the BBD(bigger and better deal).I don't know any statistics,but I have known some people like this.<BR> <BR>Whether it's a new job,more money,a new car,a different spouse,they're always looking for something better.<P> Wouldn't it be nice if people could just appreciate what they have??? <BR> <BR> Define"normal" <P> ~~Murph

Hey Murph,<P>Yep, I'm doing a lot better than yesterday <BR>Hmmm... Normal...let's see now. Nope, don't think I can define it! Maybe I should have chosen a different word or phrase. I guess nothing is normal is this mess, is it?<P>Personally, I'd like to ship all of these self-centered pieces of crap off to an island so the rest of us could lead "normal" (sorry, couldn't resist) lives. Oh well, I guess I'm dreaming too much now Take care.<P>Tulip

I guess I'd be one of the self-centered pieces of cr*p you'd send to the island too. And people wonder why I'm celibate...

Hey Student,<BR> <BR> Why? Do you think you're self-centered?<BR> Don't be so hard on yourself.<P> I wish I was a little more self-centered,so I had a little more self-esteem!<BR> <BR> Well,I guess when you're as humble as I am........<P> ~~Murph

Hi Student,<P>Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to hurt any feelings here. Just really frustrated, I guess. Sorry.<P>Tulip

Tulip,<P>Hi, its been a while since I saw you on.<P>The question you are asking, I've never seen any statistics on it. Something tells me possibly thl might know about it. (when I find time)<P>ALthough, my ex is similar to yours. He and OW are in a world of financial doo doo . (As if I'm not since they stold my tax refund and dumped all the bills on me for six months).<P>He too, constantly complains of being broke, makes reference to never knowing how easy he had it with me. Oh well, that is the consequence of the affair. Financial devestation for most of us.<P>My ex and his OW are STUCK together too. I know they still have some good times and yet the bad times are increasing. He now has to pay me steadily (which he is) and took his debt with him, AND OW quit her job so he supports her. Oh ya, the resentment is building there. <P>I agree with Murphy, some people are always looking for something better in life. It equates to them not being happy with themselves. This may not only include a betrayer, but with anyone . <P>I would suspect, if they have to stay together, than they have to. Now the fantasy is surely crashing though and welcome to the real world.<P>Do I think they'll make it for the long run, any of the betrayers in those situations, I don't think so and it hasn't happened with some people that I know personally.<P>Glad to say hi again,<BR>Dana (lonelymom)<BR>

Tulip, <P>Don't you know the "grass is always greener on the other side"??? Just being facious I guess....<BR>They may have to now stick it out, at least for a while as they having nothing else. No repect, no support from others, and as Dana said, the fantasy is crashing. <BR>Here is the one thing we don't mention enough here. How do these people ever trust each other after what they did to their own spouses?? I would always have that in the back of my mind. Here they had a marriage, kids, ect and still strayed...how would I not know they would do that to me???<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Hi Dana,<P>I haven't been around too much lately as I started back to school this summer and that has been keeping me pretty busy. It is nice to have a goal to look forward to rather than dwelling on the past. Of course, my ex has to start something periodically and get that rollercoaster moving again.<P>Your ex does sound a whole lot like mine. I guess a part of me enjoys the fact that he is suffering financially. I know that sounds terrible but it is hard not to enjoy it just a little I'm not much better off financially, but I'm pretty good at budgeting. All my ex seems to do is bounce checks all over the place (according to him). Like you said, that is the consequences of the affair. <P>I hope you are doing good and things are going well for you. Thanks for droping in and saying Hi. Take care.<P>Sue,<P>I couldn't agree more about the trust issue. I asked my ex how they could trust each other and got no response. Well, he still won't even admit they are having an affair. I guess it is not considered an affair anymore, huh? <P> I also recently told my ex that as much as he and ow lie to everyone else, I'd be willing to bet they lie to one another as well. Again no response. I guess there is not much to say when you know it is the truth. Still, it amazes me that they seem to think they are different and won't be deceived. <P>Tulip

In my H's case, although he has no job (as in indirect consequence of the affair since he quit his job that was near us to take another from which he was laid off) and lots of debt, one of the "consequences" of the affair is that he doesn't have to worry about not having a roof over his head, or food to eat. He can still afford to go away on vacation. As long as his affair partner is willing to continue subsidizing him, for him, it is financially beneficial to stay with her.

Hi again ladies,<P>I have never cheated on anyone, I suppose some people say its possible, and never say never, but I do have a strong willpower, if something is important enough to me, and to me being faithful is important. <P>I can answer to the comment about how do they trust each other after what they've done to their families?? Well, my ex recently commented to me, about that similar topic. He and OW both had to quit their jobs because the people they worked with were not happy . Ex's affair was very open and those that knew me there were disgusted. Even people in OW's office outcast her and they didn't know me. Married women don't look highly on the woman who is that OW. <P>Ex took his old job back where he continues to take grief there because it is totally a male environment, and many of the guys there adored me. Apparently a few asked about me and if I was dating, and he told them to stay away. Like its his choice right? However, the only good thing about ex now is that he pays me first. OW quit her job and ex doesn't trust her at all. He recently said, well if she was so great how come her longest relationship was 6 months?? <P>OW doesn't trust him either as she tries to be my new best friend, calling me about MY children. I tolerate her while she is in the picture, but I will meet her in person when they are totally thru and tell her exactly what I think of her. The only reason I deal with her is that my children are there every other weekend.<P>Its normal to enjoy watching them suffer just a little bit. They did ask for this. We told them this is how it would be. I know what you mean tulip, I'm not doing all that great, but I can budget really well so I do good enough on my own.<P>To Nellie, I read all of your posts, I don't always reply but I read them. In the beginning, the OW supported my H to an extent. Til she got him trapped to where he is STUCK with her then she quit and he is now struggling with her. I see him regretting his decision and he knows he can't blame that suffering on me. Know that ultimately, that affair will end, one of them will walk away or cheat on the other, look at Sue's husband, it took a few years, but it happens.<P>Prayers to you all,Dana<BR>

I think my x is stuck with her om. After all she has given up everything for him, her kids, her family, her friends, her religion and now even her job. The job she couldn't/wouldn't give up for me when we tried to reconcile. She told me it was because she couldn't get full time even though she was only one day short of full time.<P>She told the kids it was because the people she worked with were weird, when she had told me before, no one there would talk to her.<P>As for the om, I don't know what his story is. He always seems to have money. I think his mother supports him. She gave them a cruise and a week at her place in Tampa.<BR>He got fired from the hospital where he and x had worked/met. He got another job, 40 miles away and reportedly travels alot.<P>X has told the kids she is taking them to Nags Head, NC next summer. They still do their long weekends too so they can't be hurting too badly. Though she has started complaining about the child support again.<P>So I guess misery loves company. I think the guilt is strong that they decide they must stay togther, until one of them discovers it is not what they thought their new life was going to be about.

Tulip,<BR>Sorry. You hit a nerve. I cheated on my ex. I confessed, blah, blah. Lots here (even my hero, K) tell me I did all the "right" things, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what my ex did to me before my affair, or after my confession. As long as I live now, there will be someone who wants to nail me to the wall, make an example out of me, and call it "consequences". Among many other reasons, this is one big reason why I'm celibate now. <P>Every thread I read like this only confirms my growing desire to just lie about what happened in my marriage, just like I probably should not have confessed.

"HEY,STUDENT",<P> Yeah,it's me again to bug ya! <P> You know,my local paper today had an interesting article on women(and men)that have turned to celibacy.It talked about the good points and the bad points.<BR> <BR>Anyway,since this subject has been brought up around here a few times,here's a couple of books that the article mentioned.You might want to take a gander at them.<BR> <BR>One is"Sensual Celibacy"by Donna Marie Williams,and the other is"The Cult of the Born-Again Virgin"(??-I don't write'em,I just read'em!)by Wendy Keller.<BR> <BR> Just thought you might be interested when I came across the article.Take care.<P> ~~Murph

RWD,<BR>"I think the guilt is strong that they decide they must stay togther, until one of them discovers it is not what they thought their new life was going to be about."<P>Maybe the guilt isn't that strong. Maybe they are just settling for whatever they have left and whoever will take them. Unlike me. I won't settle for whatever bottom feeder will take me.<P>Danab,<BR>"Its normal to enjoy watching them suffer just a little bit. They did ask for this."<P>And what did you do to deserve being cheated on? do you honestly believe that every bad thing that happens to them is "deserved" because they hurt you? You enjoy watching them suffer... How sad. someday, someone will enjoy watching you suffer, and you can remember how you did the same to someone else. <P>Murphy,<BR>thanks for the recommendations. I'm not sure if I need a book. All I need to do is keep coming here and remembering the sanctimonious, self-righteous back patting I would have to deal with if I ever did decide to date again (and be honest about my life, that is).

TS,<P>What is wrong? This isn't like you at all. You know you got a lot of support on this board, for the simple reason you were hurting and trying. I don't recall a single post "judging" you. The only person doing that is yourself.<P>So come on post, vent what is really bugging you and we'll listen. You know that. Of course you will get advice. Have you ever known K, me or the many others around here to be short on advice? <P>Seriously, what has you down?<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi JL, old friend,<P>I answered your question on a new topic because I don't want to hog this thread.<P>All I have to say to the others is be careful what misfortune you wish on others. I understand being frustrated, hurt, and angry. However,if your spouses truly have lost everything, it is cruel to wish them further harm.

TS,<P>Maybe you took my comment out of context, however, I stated yes, it is normal to enjoy it a little. Everyone has their right to their feelings.<P>I watch my STBX suffer pretty much several times a week. I don't personally enjoy it as I know all he lost. My ex and I have worked hard this past month to begin our new relationship as friends so that when this divorce becomes final, it won't be such a devastation. He appologized to me, I appologized to him for what I believe would have been my part in this whole thing and we actually have helped each other out more than once.<P>I am proud of the relationship we are maintaining right now after all that's happened in the last six months, and its only that way because I have accepted the divorce, I accept the other woman now (Not that I care to talk to her by phone for an hour, but it happens) and I believe that I simply was too young when I got married. <P>My comment was in reference to understanding that after being hurt, yes a part of us can want to say "I told u so", we didn't say it felt good.<P>What did I do to deserve getting cheated on? Hmm, I don't know, I was faithful for eleven years, gave him 3 beautiful daughters, was a soccer mom, a brownie mom, a devoted wife, cared for him like he was the only man on earth. Cooked dinner for him every night, did all the laundry, dishes, cooking, cleaning, cared for kids, and worked a full time job the whole way through. I had opportunities to cheat and even when times were bad, I would not break my vows.<P>What I did to to cause the affair, was believing that he would be faithful to me as I was him. I also didn't know that it was ok to expect him to meet some of my needs and I didn't have to be Superwoman, he could help out.<P>I asked him what I did to cause the affair. Now that we are friends and we can talk about these things. He said that he doesn't know how we got here, why we're divorcing and that he thinks he wasn't himself. He maintains he'll always love me and does appologize. <P>I take offense to your comment that I would enjoy watching anyone suffer because anyone who truly knows me, knows that is NOT me. The reason I forgave my ex was to put an end to everyone's suffering. It was HARDER to stay mad than it was to forgive. <P>The question was in reference to the WS and OW still living together and wasn't at all to do with the type of situation you are in. <P>I've said it before in my other posts. We're all human, we all make mistakes and we all feel pain. No need to throw harsh words around, especially when their not true.<P>

I have to agree with Sue, once the barrier has been broken and the lying and cheating become habit I find it hard to belive that these actions don't continue. I once propositioned my stbx after many months of abstinance on my part. I mentioned that I realized he had new loyalties and would understand if he chose to ignore my suggestion. He replied that he wasn't as concerned about that as I assumed he would be. We both decided that getting together would be emotional disaster but I was amazed he responded so willingly with no loyalty to her. I can't help but think it will be easier for him the next time temptation appears.<P>------------------<BR>

"I can't help but think it will be easier for him the next time temptation appears."<P>It is this once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater type stuff that I will never live down. That is the main reason I'm celibate, and I would rather die than have some self-righteous *sshole put his hands on me.