I have a very long story to tell. I will try to sum up the main points in this post. <BR>I have been married for fourteen years. My H is a very devoted and faithful man. He believes the sun rises and sets on being faithful. I on the other hand, am a repeat cheater. It has taken me many years to finally come to terms with myself and the reasons behind my always seeking affairs. I am in couseling and have been for over three months. <BR>Here's the heart of my story. I no longer love my H. I like him just fine as a person and yes I do care about him...how can I not after all these years of marriage? But I can't stay in this relationship. I feel so stifled and unhappy. We have been having tremendous marital discord for the past four years. No communication, no trust (my fault due to my affairs), no intimacy (I have great difficulty just thinking about being with my husband in a sexual way...this understandably frustrates him very much). I came to terms with my lack of love for him last year. However, as much as I tried to tell him of my lack of feelings, I felt it was always taken lightly. He thought everything was just fine and dandy....I don't know how he could have been thinking this! Maybe because my H is the kind of man that refuses to believe anything unless it jumps up and slaps him in the face (figuratively speaking). Also, whenever we would hit a 'speedbump' in our relationship, he was usually the one that would take charge and try to 'fix' the problem. I, having a low self esteem would just sit back and plod on...and usually the problem would get swept under the rug only to resurface once again down the road.<BR>The reason I am seeing a counselor is because I realize I need to rethink my idea of love. What it is to me, what it really means to me. I have never been able to let anyone get close to me (including my H) as I have built walls all around myself. It's a protection thing....it all stems from the example that was set before me when I was young. My parents had a rotten marriage. My father was a cheat and he never was there for me...he was a rather cold, uncaring person. All I saw was how much he hurt my mom and this translated over into my present way of thinking. I grew up lacking a stable male role model. What was there to base my future relationships on?? Nothing. I find it ironic that I have followed in my fathers footsteps. I am seriously working to change that! You cannot know how much I have struggled with this issue---it's very hard to admit I am a repeat offender (cheater). I know how frowned upon we are. But for me, whenever I found my H starting to break down those 'walls' of mine, I would protect myself by falling into an affair. See, growing up I was only shown that MEN LEAVE. Therefore I vowed deep inside to never let anyone get too close to me. That way it wouldn't hurt when they did leave. I fully expected my affairs would make my H leave...but he never did. So I would move on to the next affair trying to GIVE him a reason to leave (after all, I expected him to leave eventually, just like my father always did). Sounds contradictory but believe me it's true. I always considered myself to be a fairly level-headed person...discovering this awful pattern about myself really took the cake. I still have a lot of unresolved anger towards my father for this. I am learning to move beyond that now, it just takes a lot of time and patience. It has taken me over 14 years to finally be able to admit all this to myself!<BR>One more very important thing I need to say. There is a OM in the picture. This man came into the picture AFTER I realized how I truly felt about my marriage. Months after. I find him very personable and I know he cares for me although he is very wise in that he says he cannot have a relationship with me until I end my marriage (if that's what I decide to do). I know this looks really bad....I do not want this man out of my life. I certainly don't want to jump into a serious relationship with him! I couldn't even if I wanted to...I am still married, and I have so many issues to resolve within myself still. If a deep relationship was to happen, it would be many months from now. I have so many things to learn about love and commitment still. This OM knows this about me. I am only saying I do not want to give up his friendship. <BR>Now, I know this story sounds like so many others posted here. My H understandably blames OM for breaking up our marriage...this is not true. I know it's easier to blame someONE than to blame someTHING. The truth is, I no longer want my marriage. With or without the OM being anywhere in the scene. I am not happy here...I need to 'find' the real me, the part that is able to COMMIT to love, to value a relationship the way it should be valued. I cannot in all honesty, at this point do that. I know now that I should have gotten out of my marriage before striking up a friendship with the OM....but I can't go back and change it all now.<BR>My H and I have talked about this issue for months. He agreed with my needing to resolve past issues. He's all for that! However, he refuses to believe I no longer want our marriage. He thinks I am just blinded right now. Maybe I am...but I need to find that out for myself. If I stay in our marriage it has to be because I WANT to, not because he says that's just how it should be, you know, that I'll 'come around'. I am my OWN person...not his property. I am worthy of making my own conscious decisions! I take responsibility for all my actions. I'd need to love him again and to have the desire to work on our relationship.....I have no desire to work on it at all.<BR>I have much more to say and I will continue the rest of my story later. BUT, is there anyone out there that can relate to what I am saying? We (my H and I) have been going over and over all of this for the past 8 months and there are times when I feel like I need to just scream as I get so frustrated. I need space from my H but he seems only to cling tighter. I don't want to hurt him anymore than I have already.<BR>Please, if you have any insight that may possibly help....post it. Thanks so much....I know I can't be alone out here.<P>~naomi<P>

Naomi,<P>I may not be the person to answer you, and I will say to you this......take what you can use, and leave the rest.<P>However, your words ripped open a fresh wound in me, and I have to say, that I am answering from what is probably your husbands point of view.<P>I am going through something simular......tho my stbx wife is behaving very badly right now. For my story you can go back and read my threads.<P>I think you AND your husband first need to read this website. Your husband is acting the way he is because he is in agony......and probably denial.<P>I feel that some women in your shoes do not seem to understand, that the husband stays because of his deep love for his wife. He tries because of this deep love. He faulters because he is human.<P>"I am in couseling and have been for over three months."<BR>If you have only been in counseling for 3 months, you have not spent enough time yet to truly understand everything. TAKE LONGER!<BR>"<BR>I no longer love my H. I like him just fine as a person and yes I do care about him...how can I not after all these years of marriage? But I can't stay in this relationship. I feel so stifled and unhappy."<P>You probably feel this way because the emotional needs in this relationship havent been met in a long time. IF you truly care about your husband, then take time, read this WHOLE site thoroughly and try to apply some of the philosophies before throwing in the towel<BR> "I came to terms with my lack of love for him last year. However, as much as I tried to tell him of my lack of feelings, I felt it was always taken lightly. He thought everything was just fine and dandy....I don't know how he could have been thinking this! Maybe because my H is the kind of man that refuses to believe anything unless it jumps up and slaps him in the face"<P>It might be that your husband loves you and cannot fathom that you no longer love him.....the pain and anguish I felt from my wife's lying to me (and I didnt even know she was cheating on me the entire marriage till we seperated), AND the pain of being rejected over and over and over and over caused me to withdraw from her, and not meet her emotional needs any better than mine were being met.<P>"But for me, whenever I found my H starting to break down those 'walls' of mine, I would protect myself by falling into an affair."<P>My wife used her childhood as an instrument to torture and abuse everyone who tried to get close to her. Almost everyone has a dysfunctional childhood anymore...but using it as an excuse, is just that. The past does not rule your life, anymore than you let it!......My stepfather beat my mother on a daily basis......so I should be a wife beater right.....WRONG......personal choice......I will not hit another human being........because I know it is wrong, and I will not allow that to ruin my life<P><BR>"I am learning to move beyond that now, it just takes a lot of time and patience. It has taken me over 14 years to finally be able to admit all this to myself!"<P>Ok, this might sound like a bitter husband who just got crapped all over, but WHERE does this leave the man that stood with you over those 14 years? who DID take you back affair after affair? IS THIS REALY FAIR TO HIM? What did he do to deserve this? Sounds like you are pretty much admitting he is an innocent bystander of YOUR behavior problems. SO>>>>>>>ARE YOU REALLY DEALING WITH THIS>>>>>>OR RUNNING?<P>AS FOR THE OM.......If you need to learn about you, why don't you concentrate on you in therapy, and forget about anyone else right now then? It sounds like you would just do the same with him, that you have done with your husband until you have healed.<P>"The truth is, I no longer want my marriage."<P>OK.....here is the rage of a bitter husband.<BR>Happiness is found within.....not without. Please read this site.......I am sorry, but I FEEL for your husband......In my case, I did everything I could to help my wife get better, find happiness, be supportive, stood by her, and now, even tho she left for the OM......she is alone now, probably homeless......I dont know where, but because of my love, my life is in holding.......thinking she might come back....and my god what do I do if she does?<BR> <BR>"If I stay in our marriage it has to be because I WANT to, not because he says that's just how it should be, you know, that I'll 'come around'. I am my OWN person...not his property. I am worthy of making my own conscious decisions! I take responsibility for all my actions. I'd need to love him again and to have the desire to work on our relationship.....I have no desire to work on it at all."<P>I guess I think you wouldnt have come here if there were any doubts in your mind. READ THE SITE.......GO TO COUNSELING with and WITHOUT your husband...........TRY TO HEAL this marriage, then if you both try, and you fail or succeed, 10 years from now you can look back and have no regrets. And if you succeed you can look back and know that this was the turning point to a more fullfilling, loving, trust filled relationship than you could have ever possibly known. YOUR HUSBAND LOVES YOU, he has been with you this long despite the pain you have inflicted upon him.........Give both yourselves the chance to heal and heal this marriage.<P>DOESNT ANYONE TAKE THE VOWS SERIOUSLY ANYMORE>>>>>>??????????<P>"I need space from my H but he seems only to cling tighter. I don't want to hurt him anymore than I have already."<P>This is because he is petrified of loosing you........he is scared, and is trying to hold you tighter to keep you from leaving. You BOTH need counseling......Please get it together!<BR>Please, if you have any insight that may possibly help....post it. Thanks so much....I know I can't be alone out here.<P>You may think me a jerk, I may have not given you answers you wanted to hear, and there are others here that will say things to you in a much more loving and understanding way. I probably shouldnt have replied, but it struck me so deep that I could not NOT have. <P>I know from personal experience........your husband has allowed his love for you to transform him into what he feels is a doormat and he probably feels some resentment. Of course there are going to be trust issues, but it wont be any better with an OM. In fact, it could be much worse as my wife found out. This OM she moved out to be with whom she had known for 2 weeks vs our 7 years together lived with her behaviors for 1 month before tossing her out like yesterdays garbage. He had nothing vested in her, and did not truly love her.<P>Please think about it........read this site......<P>Ben (10021997)<P>

Welcome <B>naomi</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>I have to cringe at what you've just written...<BR>...it is an amazing repeat of many things my W said to me...<P>First I must say that the counseling you had attended was a complete rip-off...<BR>...and did nothing for you... or your H.<P>[quote]"...but <B>I</B> need to find ... out for <B>myself</B>..."<P>"If <B>I</B> stay in our marriage it has to be because <B>I WANT to</B>, not because he says that's just how it should be..."<P>"<B>I</B> am my <B>OWN</B> person...not his property..."<P>"<B>I</B> am worthy of making <B>my own</B> conscious decisions!"<P>"<B>I</B> take responsibility for all <B>my</B> actions."<P>"<B>I</B>'d need to love him again and to have the desire to work on our relationship..."<P>... from these comments...<BR>... you are clearly not willing to be "married"...<BR>..."...the <B>I</B>'s have it!..."<P>...please don't feel like I am insulting you...<BR>...but your thoughts go completely against what we at MB believe are the skills needed for a successful marriage.<P>If you have no interest in learning these skills...<BR>...consider not getting involved with the OM...<BR>...why drag him down a path (toward a future marriage)... with a woman who doesn't understand <BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The four rules to guide marital recovery/a successful marriage</A> (page 87 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3902_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Protection:</A>Avoid being the cause of <B>your spouse</B>'s unhappiness.<BR><LI><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3901_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Care:</A> Meet <B>your spouse</B>'s most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3904_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Time:</A> Take time to give <B>your spouse</B> undivided attention.<BR><LI><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Honesty:</A> Be totally open and honest with <B>your spouse</B>.<BR></OL><P>You may have noticed the emphasis is not on "...<B>I</B>..."...<BR>...but on "...<B>your spouse</B>..."<P>Even our <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> recommendation seems to be an "<B>I</B>" plan...<BR>...in reality ...it is <B>my marriage/relationship</B> plan!<P>You may not in fact agree with these rules...<BR>...of for that matter care if any "rules" do apply.<P>I'd only ask you to present this information to your OM... (maybe have him check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>) and back then get to you... about your willingness to commit to a plausible marital relationship...<BR>...before you give up completely on some new/different counseling and your H.<P>Be prepared for the occasional "flame" vent against your post...<BR>...feelings run deep here.<P>We sicerely care about you...<BR>...but we care about your marriage too. <P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited August 03, 2000).]

Get in touch with my wife (soon to be ex-wife). You two are of the same mold.

I know my post is mainly about ME....but I only wanted some input. There is more to this story than just what I have previously posted. Let me go on from there.<BR>My H is the controlling type. He thinks he does absolutely nothing wrong...but he fails to see just how demanding he is towards me. When our love life didn't go the way HE thought it should he would pout for days and it would become unbearable here. When he did this (nearly every week) it only served to push me away from him more and more. This is only one example. He is a good person inside but he needs to acknowledge (just as I have) that he is not perfect. Sometimes it seems that my wrongs are worse than his....<BR>We have both read over MB. We even read a book "Surviving the Affair" together. We are no closer to working things out than we were two years ago. Right now I am in couseling alone...I must work on my past issues before I can work on my present ones as they all tie in together. I am not using my rotten childhood as an 'excuse'. In fact since starting my counseling, I am finally able to see where I went wrong towards my H. The problem is within myself. I need to relearn how to love...kind of like a kindergartener having to learn her ABC's. I have faith I can become the person I have always wanted to be!<BR>The problem right now is that I need some space from my marriage. My H wants to start work on our marriage right away...I am not ready for that. It would be like skipping step one to work on step two. He pressures me in subtle ways that he cannot see. I know how much he loves me but his pushing me to recommit when I cannot at this point is only hurting us and doing more damage. I am open and honest with him about everything and we do talk a lot. I am determined that no matter where we end up it will never be as enemies.<BR>Does any of this make any sense?<BR>I have encouraged my H to go to couseling for himself. He says he doesn't need it.<BR>I appreciate everyones input on my situation. Please try to read my words with an open heart...I am in such a complicated postion, but as always I have faith that things will work out for the best for both myself and for my H!<P>~naomi <P>

In reply to skamin7906:<P>Where is all your anger coming from? Do you think that everyone sees relationships the same way? What kind of problems did your wife have that you could not seem to grasp as being legitimate? I am so tired of feeling like there are two kinds of people: the good and the bad. I believe in shades of gray! Part of repairing a marriage is acknowledging there is a problem...not living in denial. That is what I have finally done and it feels like I am only receiving condescending posts....I am sorry if my story has hit home for many of you. ife is not a bed of roses for if it was none of us would be here.<P>~naomi<BR>

Naomi:<BR>My anger is not towards you, it is towards my wife.<P>Why am I angry?<BR>- I am angry because she cheated on me - she did not take her vows seriously<BR>- I am angry because she lied to me<BR>- I am angry that she deceived me for so many years - she says that she has not loved me for years.<BR>- I am angry that she betrayed me - she had an affair with somebody that used to be my friend<BR>- I am angry because of the way she proceeded with the divorce - there was no discussion and no opportunity for reconciliation.<BR>- I am angry because she gave up on our sons, on ourselves, on me and on herself<BR>- I am angry that she did not trust me enought to tell me that there was a problem before she just ran away<BR>- I am angry that she quit trying<P>I admit that I might not have been the best husband (we all have shortcomings and many opportunities to improve ourselves).<P>I cannot understand her motivations and her actions. Maybe I am not supposed to understand them.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by naomi:<BR><B>In reply to skamin7906:<P>Where is all your anger coming from? Do you think that everyone sees relationships the same way? What kind of problems did your wife have that you could not seem to grasp as being legitimate? I am so tired of feeling like there are two kinds of people: the good and the bad. I believe in shades of gray! Part of repairing a marriage is acknowledging there is a problem...not living in denial. That is what I have finally done and it feels like I am only receiving condescending posts....I am sorry if my story has hit home for many of you. ife is not a bed of roses for if it was none of us would be here.<P>~naomi</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Dear Naomi, <P>I am glad you came here. Even though the guys have been rough on you, they have all been in difficult situations and have been hurt by the infidelity in their own marriages. <BR>Take some time and look deep to find out what is truly missing in your life. It is sometimes painful to reach deep down and find what we are truly missing that would make us happy. But we quite often find it is within ourselves, and ourselves alone. Going to a good counselor will help you.<BR>Then, look inside you marriage and figure out what needs you have that your H may not be meeting. Express this to him and give him the chance. Quite often the tide can be changed once both of you are truly honest with each other. <BR>Marriage is never easy, but can be rewarding when both of you are helping each other along the way. Just give him the tools and he will work with you to restore your marriage to what you want. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

In reply to Sue and others:<P>I used to think my H was responsible for making me happy. I know much better now. I realize fully that happiness starts within myself. That is why I chose to go to a christian couselor. In talking with her each week, I am beginning to come to terms with myself. I have very low self esteem, but it is slowly rising. At one point in my couseling, I felt very good about myself...but then I found out my H had been taping all phone conversations in our home. This hurt me a lot. <BR>I know I have put him through a lot of pain! I am trying not to hurt him anymore and that is why I need some breathing room from him. He is suffocating me because he wants so badly to fix our marriage. He loves me very much but right now towards him I feel numb. I need to repair my inner self before I can begin to repair our marriage.<BR>This makes sense to me!<P>~naomi

Hi Naomi and welcome to MB!!!<P>Just a short (well...short for me, anyway!!!) reply to you for now as I am just popping in.....<P>A couple of suggestions for you...<P>I am very glad that you have found a Christian counselor that has helped with your self-examination so much in such a short amount of time!!! That is wonderful.....GOOD FOR YOU for finally deciding to start on your own "personal recovery"!!!!<P>I would like to suggest that perhaps the reason you feel such a strong need for "space" is that you are very overwhelmed with all that is going on around you...<P>Between this personal healing, your H and his attentions (or clinging as you see it), the OM and others before him, plus whatever else such as work, etc.-<BR>you are being pulled in too many directions!!!<P>You can change that.....but not the way you are looking at doing it!!! <P>If you truly want to improve who you are and what you want your life to be, then you must start by making it as simple as possible for you to be able to function.<P>That means that OM.....and you won't like this.....is a COMPLICATION!!!<BR>One that you absolutely do not need in your life right now!!! If anything was "meant to be" with him....he will be brought back around later. You can not hang on to him now....so let him go!!!<P>He may be something that makes you feel good in a life of uncertainty at this time.....but he is an obstacle to what you are trying to do for yourself. Other things can make you feel just as good, if you let them....which you won't as long as you focus on him.<P>What I would like to suggest is for you to supplement your counseling with a phone call counseling with one of the Harleys.....I say this because they are vastly experienced in these matters and can help you with how to live (and deal) on a day to day basis while you are exploring your past with the other counselor. You see it yourself that you cannot handle all at once.....but you are throwing something away (marriage, husband) when it is not necessary to do so......not yet anyway cuz you are not in a place to make such a huge decision!!<P>And you are close to that decision, so saying that "space" would help you is incorrect. If you keep this mindset, you have already talked yourself into divorce!!! It is evidenced in some of your words and also that you posted on the divorcing board!!!<P>The Harleys will guide you and your husband on HOW best to interact with each other for your situation!!! They will give you specific ideas, etc. about what you both need to do to help the other to grow (therefore, neither of you will feel stifled!) while giving you the time that you need to learn about yourself. <P>If H needs to back-off......they will sure as heck tell him so!!! They will also tell him how and what he should be doing to really help you!!! They will also probably tell you how you can gain a better perspective about this overwhelmed time you are in.<P>I hope that this helps....I really think that this supplementing your personal counseling will allow you (and H also) to feel much less stifled and therefore, happier with the atmosphere around you!!<P>We all have our personal journeys that we need to take.....your H has one too!!<BR>He just needs some direction.....as do you!!!<P>You do not feel 'in love" with H...how could you? There is way too much going on for you to do so.<P>But, in love feelings come and go...they do not last unless we learn how to do this right!!!! That is what you want to do.....so you need not close a door when you just need to open a window for a breath of fresh air!!!! <P>BIG HUGS for you (and H) can surely use some!!!! I know that this is hard...and frustrating as hell!!!! But, whenever we truly want to improve our lives, the hard work is well worth the effort!!!<P>Sheba

Sheba<P>Thanks for your kind and wise words. What you say gives me a lot to think about.<P>I have been having a very stressful day today. This evening when my H came home, he could see that I was at wits end. I told him I have been feeling the weight of a lot of issues all day and I am just so tired of it all. He said "Well, what do you want ME to do?" In other words, he came across as pretty cold and seemingly uncaring about it all. No hug or anything. I should have expected this...he is slowly letting go of me. He said "We are getting a divorce so what can I do for you?". <P>I don't know what will happen with us. There are times when I doubt my decisions, but there are more times that I feel I have been making the right ones all along. <P>I still firmly believe that I do need some space from all this. Neither me nor my H are moving out of the house...I can't for financial reasons, and he won't because it's 'his' house and why should he? So it looks like we will be co-habitating awhile longer (we are in separate ends of the house right now). Maybe I just need a weekend away from it all....did I mention we have children? It's very hard to think straight sometimes with so much going on around me. My H and I talk and interract on a daily basis. I still care for our kids and the house while he's at work everday. We are like two roommates....roommates that will have the occasional argument. We are not intimate and haven't been for quite some time now. <P>As far as the OM goes....I know it was wrong to have started talking to him in the first place but he is a bright area in my life and I need something bright right now! I am not actively pursuing anything with him at this time....I only talk with him from time to time. I know if something were to develop with him that became serious, it would not work. No way am I ready for any of that...the OM knows the type of person I am and he knows of my problems also. He knows I go to counseling every week. He is a friend to me...not a boyfriend or anything more. I should be honest here and say that at times I wish he were more than a friend....but that is clearly out of the question at this time.<P>I go to see my couselor tomorrow. When I get home I will try and post a little more of my story.<P>I appreciate all the feedback I have received. I could write so much more about my situation and will do so later...I need some quiet, thinking time right now.<P>~Naomi<BR>