Hello honey west,<BR>Maybe i misread/misunderstood something you wrote? <BR>You responded to eric regarding the pregnancy of his ex. In that you stated something that struck me as rather peculiar....and now i changed screens and cannot quote it! <BR>Along the lines of his ex did not opt for abortion therefore lies hope in the 'good person' theory? <BR>cheryl

Hi cl,<P>Maybe a slight misinterpretation, I wouldn't describe it as a good/bad issue, but one of responsiblity. She has two children, she knows exactly what she is in store for having a baby.<P>She didn't think of her kids before when she was fooling around, it seems now, that maybe she is starting to think of other people, and not just herself. What a tough situation to be in - if she were in complete self-centered mode, she could have had an abortion, nobody would have known, and she could have continued on with her playing around. But she isn't. That seems to me like it could be a turning point. But I'm always optimistic.<P>

hi honeywest,<BR>hmmmm, we are on very different wave lengths regarding abortion issues. <BR>Responsibility comes in many forms. I hope she makes a choice she can live with.<BR>

The mere fact that she got pregnant under such circumtances shows she is totally irresponsible. Talk about self=centered a woman that would purposefully bring a child into this world that will never have a father in it's life.<P>My first thought was she got pregnant for financial gain. In some states single women can collect up to 20% of the fathers gross income in child support and she can spend however she wants. If he has money and wants to keep the whole thing quiet she could probably get more out of him. <P>With the birth control available today there is no reason for uplanned pregnancy.

TMD,<P>No birth control method is 100%. And why no wrath toward the father? Nobody put a gun to his head and said "have unprotected sex." He could have taken precautions well. And we don't know, maybe they did?<P>This is a horrible situation which doesn't have a correct answer. It is a sign of the times where sex is cheap, life is cheap, divorce is easy.<P>And who suffers?<P>An innocent baby, and two little children. <BR>

Pregnancy is not a sign of irresponsibility! Nor does it make her a money grubbing, self-centered person. This woman has a lot of problems, but I would be hesitant to label her any of the above.<BR>The only sure thing in life is death....there are no other guarantees. Pregnancy happens under the best and worst of circumstances. <BR>I am so very sorry for the whole family, but have a lot of faith that eric's wife will come around eventually. Maybe this is her wake-up call?

ps Honey west your name just cracks me up!

Hey guys,<P>I'll chime in with a little background. I'll say that I have been here before with my XW. Our first child was brought into the world under the same circumstance. <P>Before anyone gets nervous, I admire her for sticking to her guns, because I too wanted to run and insisted she abort. Because she had the fortitude to stick to her guns, I had the chance to become a man. I will always be thankful to her for that. She held my feet to the fire and made me look at myself, whatever her motivation. With my XW, once I gave her an ultimatum, she wouldn't have anything to do with me despite a sincere change in me. It took many months of me not going away to show her. Frankley, I've never been forgiven for my knee-jerk reaction. It was just buried and not talked about. I wanted to explore the issue and maybe heal those wounds but she never wanted to. <P>I think that TMD is right and that this is another in a long list of being "totally irresponsible", however I don't think it happens to be for financial gain. Though he does want to keep it hush and does have some money. I will say that the abortion thing in XW's case is really mute. It, IMO, doesn't really show any sign of anything. <P>I knew that one day this would come (actually, I felt it would happen w/in 1 year of our seperation, turned out to be 16 months). I knew when it happened, she would have the baby. She had unprotected sex during and ever since our marriage, never birth control either. Why is she like this, I have not a clue. There's definately a dark side of things to her life that I was never able to crack. She's not an all around screw up, if you met her you'd find her warm and get the feeling she'd do antything for you. Which she does. If you got close she'd screw you (pardon me for the blue, dark humor , but I am serious). Ask me, ask her boyfriend(s), ask her family. She doesn't seem to do it on purpose, but it happens just the same.<P>Eric

www<p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited September 25, 2000).]

hi cl, the name fit my mood at the time. I felt kind of silly for awhile, but now I like it...<P>Eric, I really am sorry for everyone. I of course, do have those pollyanna thoughts, where it has a happy ending. You know, I have found that most "loose" women, are very kind hearted. And hurting.<P>Now TMD!!! You are trying to have your cake and eat it too! Everytime a man has sex, he risks pregnancy. If he doesn't want a baby, than he should abstain. There should never be a "how could this happen?" I'll be pounding that lesson into my boys (if I ever let them out of the house!) <BR>

I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. What does that mean? I am a woman by the way if that is what you meant by that comment.<P>IMO since the woman is the one who gets pregnant the responsibility unforutanely falls on her. Is this fair? Nope. Ideally, both men and women should abstain from sex if they don't want to risk unwanted <BR>pregnancy. But since that is usually not the case precautions should be taken.<P>From Eric32 post it seems that behaving irresponsibly is a pattern in his ExW life. It is a very sad situation for everyone involved.<p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited September 25, 2000).]

TMD,<BR>Birth control is not 100%. I got pregnant TWICE while faithfully using birth control (once using a condom, another while on the pill). Call me fertile. Yes, I did have an abortion both times. I was way too young to bring a child into this world. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have carried it to term and put it up for adoption. On the other hand, there are so many good kids who need homes. When I decided that I did not want to give birth, I had my tubes tied. Couldn't handle another abortion.

TMD, I was responding to the post you edited out, and it did make me think you were a man - I apologize if I offended you, it was not intentional.<P>Student, <P>I was prochoice for many years, but now, I too see adoption as the answer. I have no intention of making any political statements to such an explosive subject, I just wish to extend my empathy, for how difficult that must have been, and may still be for you.

Honey.west,<BR>Thanks for your sympathy. Sometimes the best laid plans (no pun intended) to go awry. Those things happened close to 15-20 yrs ago. In a different time, and with a different frame of mind, I might have considered myself blessed to be able to conceive so easily. There are so many who try and cannot. Just one of many reasons why, for me at least, I can't have sex without commitment now. <P>It's funny. I used to think all those church teachings were thought up just to ruin our fun. In many ways, I'm glad I came to my current beliefs through experience instead of just having it handed down. I really do see now why something as intimate as sex is so sacred, for many reasons. One of them being unintended pregnancy. <P>I'm still prochoice, in a sense that it is still up to the individual to decide. I would never want a woman to be FORCED to carry a child. Still, if it were my daughter, neice, or other girl/woman I was close to, I'd do whatever I could to help support her carry it to term.