Why is it that the person who leaves the marriage is considered mentally ill or fatally flawed? Alot of us here, me included, talk about our exes in such negative terms. Maybe that is what is required in order for us to fall out of love with them, especially those of us who haven't chosen divorce.<P>How do I reconcile the fact that I still love my ex, even though he decided to divorce me? Shouldn't I hate him for abandoning me? Why should I consider him mentally ill for the simple fact that he doesn't love me any more. How condescending is that? "He doesn't love me, therefore he must be sick". <P>The only thing I find to be really mad it him for is his failure to keep trying. I can't be mad at him for not loving me. Hurt yes, mad no.

Student,<P>I saw recently on these boards where somebody said of their WS:<P>"I love her, but I don't like her"<P>That really kind of summed up my situation.<P>Jay

You ask a good question.<BR> <BR>There are so many forms of mental abnormalities that it's easy to see signs of one or another of them in almost any person.<P>I think part of the reason that we hang those labels on xs or stbxs is for self-defense. We need to see them as more flawed than ourselves. Sometimes the ones who want to leave have legitimate reasons and sometimes they don't but everyone needs to value him or herself. And you've been threatened in terms of self-esteem by this person so you need to deflate them.<P>I know my x is sane. But he is less than rational where I am concerned - not my opinion but that of our counselor who saw a lot there, so he told me, that x just would not deal with. Wouldn't deal with any of it except the fact that he was unhappy and if he got rid of me he had a chance to be happy even though this chance might not come about as he dreamed. And it didn't.<P>But I saw rage. I saw hints of violence aimed at me. I saw a man who called me several times when I knew that he was calling to be rescued from near-suicidal depression. But did he work with the psychologist or psychiatrist. Saw them, yes, but didn't lay his heart open.<P>I digress - part of it is our need to see them as more flawed. But part of it is our hopefulness and willingness to work toward a solution and our observation of their weakness. Maybe those of us here do see the bigger picture. <P>I don't know the answer unless it is:<P>"Because it is."

Hey TS:<P>Just wanted you to know that I do not feel the way you described about my x. I actually have a good relationship now with my x husband. If we got along as well in our marriage as we do now, we may have been able to make it work. We both still have our angry moments but for the most part we have a very amicable relationship. We will probably always be friends. We have known each other for 18 years and that is not something that will be lost even through all the pain and turmoil of divorce. We both hope that each of us will find happiness in ourselves. Unfortunately, in our marriage, we looked to each other for happiness instead of ourselves. I think that is the problem with many marriages these days. <P>My x made a choice that hurt me deeply but I understand why he made that choice. I still wish that we could have figured out how to make our marriage work. That is no longer an option. So, I have moved on. But, I do still care for him deeply. I don't really know what love means anymore. That is something I am trying to figure out now. <P>Jennifer

TS,<P>For a while, I thought my ex was mentally ill or bi polar or something. It was my way of rationalizing what he did. I was so hurt that he abandon me, I think I had to find a reason why. It took months of counseling, reading lots of books and many new friends to realize that, he just wanted to take a different path in life without me. I still blame him and OW for more devastation then was needed but that was out of my control.<P>I still love my ex too. Not the way I did when I fell in love with him. But I'll always care about him in some way even though there are times when I just want to strangle him. There are also times when that small part of him I fell in love with comes out and I start having those doubts. For me, they don't last long.<P>Its hard to fall out of love with someone, is it even possible?? I am not sure. I too , am struggling now with what love really is.<P>I think we talk in negative terms more when we are hurt or very tired. Most of us, including you, have our good days and we are more ourselves on those days. When we are depressed and down, I think thats where the negativity comes in.<P>The pain of this whole mess will follow us forever. <P>Prayers, Dana<BR>

It's not that they are "mentally ill." I believe they are perhaps "temporarily" mental in the fact that they avoid the problems in the marriage.<P>A mentally healthy person will deal with problems. Sure it's still gonna hurt, but the understanding or at least the will to understand, is what makes the difference.<P>Personally, the feelings I have for my wife now are the same feelings I have for anyone walking down the street. I don't hate/love her, I don't like/dislike her.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Well <deep breath>...<P>I chose divorce and I don't think I'm mentally ill, nor did I ignore the problems, nor do I bad mouth my ex. So... <P>Just as Jay said above, and I agree, I love my stbx, but I no longer like him. But is that a reason to divorce? Nope. So there is more, is there not? Yep. I do not see a way to navigate the stream that has become a raging river... my analogy for this marriage. Too much bad water under the bridge.<P>So, I chose to use my oars, row upstream (because it is the hard way!) and begin my life again. <P>I will miss my stbx. I will always have a love for him. I wish him well. <P>But we can't be together any more. <P>If that makes me mentally ill, then so be it. <P>Sheryl<P>

I just can’t believe it. For the past day I have been extremely strong had have really started to feel that I have come to grips with my situation. I read your post and the tears started flowing L<P>Most of the posts out here are one sided and perhaps skewed by our own points of view. Unfortunately, the pictures we tend to draw of our ex’s out here do usually come across as negative. My wife is a wonderful person and I love her deeply. If she wasn’t and I didn’t, then I wouldn’t have married her in the first place. She made the comment last night that everyone we know is making her out to be the villain and the bad guy in this situation. I have often felt that my wife has a screw loose for leaving me, but I don’t consider her to be a villain or a bad person. As I explained to her last night, I think she has just made some very poor decisions about herself and about our relationship dating back a few years. I am very hurt and very angry that she never once tried to talk to me about her feelings of unhappiness during the relationship. Granted, I haven’t always been the most open person with her and I know that I wasn’t perfect, but she never gave me a chance. She let things fester in her mind to the point where the only way she could see things as getting better was to just walk away.<P>This was an extremely selfish act on her part and it is something I can never forgive. I will be able to get past it eventually, but I’ll never forgive it. If she is not “in love” with me anymore then fine. I’ll get over that, but I know that she still does love me and a part of her always will, as will a part of me that will always have a place in my heart for her. <P>I believe that is the way it should always be.<BR><P>------------------<BR>JH93

Hi everyone,<BR>When I read all of your posts, I see something in common. Basically, that all of our exes, for whatever reason, did not have the will to work on themselves or the marriage enough to save the marriage. That is probably a no-brainer. <P>I tend to agree with Chris123. A healthy person doesn't run away from problems. We all have aspects to our personalities that some might consider "unhealthy" though. <P>One path I never want to go down is the "it's ok to divorce as long as you're happy" road. All of us felt that we could be happy in our marriages and fully expected to work out whatever came along. I don't see divorce as a legitimate path to self-fulfillment at all. Just the opposite, really. The people who leave marriages are just postponing the inevitable introspection and work required to grow as a human being. Cutting off family ties and abandoning vows isn't the way to do that. <P>Sheryl,<BR>David left your marriage many,many times before you made the decision to divorce. My ex probably figures that I left my marriage when I cheated, and I did for that time. I just hoped he could have given me a second chance (like you did with David). Lots of people don't think I deserve a second chance, but *I* know I was a good wife to him before this happened and could have been an even better wife given what I learned from this situation. In any case, I will never forget that one "oh, sh*t" can erase a zillion "atta, boys". <P>711,<BR>Given your improved relationship with your ex, do you ever see possibly getting remarried? I know that it doesn't seem like an option now, because you might still be very hurt. However, I know I couldn't pass up an opportunity to have my family back intact if it became available. <P>DanaB,<BR>Same question for you...<P>Chris123,<BR>I think I know what your answer will be. You are a ROCK!! Hope everything is going well with you and the kids. The last update I read sounded like your kids were, if not overjoyed, but at least pragmatic about what is happening. Breaks my heart.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited September 29, 2000).]

TheStudent,<P>Knowing that my H is suffering from depression certainly doesn't make me fall out of love with him. I don't think it is negative term. Even if I believed that people really "fall out of love" after a quarter of a century, a formerly devoted father who was mentally healthy would not tell his children they could only visit once a month. A mentally healthy person would not suddenly lose interest in everything that he was interested in, everything he was passionate about. A mentally healthy person's personality would not completely change almost overnight.

TS:<P>I don't think there is a chance for us to ever get back together. I used to think that might happen one day, that he would regret his decision (like everyone in the world told me he would) and want to come back. But, he has never showed any signs of any second thoughts. I gave up on that hope some time ago.<P>It is also hard when you have moved on and see the potential for better relationships, to go back to one in which only one person ever really tried, even though they failed to save it. <P>Jennifer

At the risk of getting blasted off this board for good, I'd like to comment on something Jennifer alluded to:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the potential for better relationships<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have a friend who was in a bad relationship and has been married to a new man for six years. She was married to her prior H for about 10 years. She said to me, about six months ago, the following...<P>She was driving to work one morning and it suddenly occured to her, "Oh my god" she thought, "THIS is what a good relationship fells like". She suggested that the same would happen with me, when the right man came along. You know, I never thought it would be possible, and the end result, of course, is yet to be seen, BUT... already I see that the pain had to stop. I couldn't keep going like that.<P>By the way Nellie, I am sorry for your continued pain. There has to be some point, somewhere, ANYwhere, when you can SOMEhow begin to heal. I worry so much about you.<BR>

NB,<BR>You are right, you couldn't keep going with David continuing to have affairs and not invest in your marriage. I wouldn't expect my ex to keep putting up with continued affairs either. I would not have put up with his anger, degradation, and condescending hypocrisy forever either. <P>For some stupid reason, though, I still hold out a little glimmer of hope. Maybe because someone new has not come into my life. Problem is, I DO know what a good relationship feels like. Me and my ex had that for quite awhile before I came up to school. Of course, it was not perfect, but if you get to know someone long enough, there will inevitably be things you don't like. Alot of you are still in the early stages, and you know that. To me, it is all the same. I'd rather just figure it out with one person than keep starting over, and over, and over.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think I know what your answer will be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Can I at least get divorced before I have to answer a question like thit?<P>Get remarried? You have to go out with someone for a while, discover them & like what you see before you're (usually) ready to get married. As I feel right now, no, it won't happen. Dating, talking on the phone, going over to dinner with the kids just ain't gonna happen.<P>This is what Plan B (which I haven't been doing, but she has) is supposed to accomplish. You fall out of love and don't have all the bad feelings. I don't love her and now a divorce would merely be a formality for me BUT I'm still married UNTIL I'm divorced (meaning no dating or relationships!)<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

NB, I agree with you 100%. This is my first post on this forum and I'm separated from my husband (5 months). We were only married for 4 years and I'm getting all kinds of pressure to stop the divorce proceedings.<P>NO, I have not been through hell and back a dozen times. Nor have we tried every type of marriage building known to man. We have one child between us (who is still an infant) who is the only reason why I even try to like my husband. I was the giver in the relationship and he was the taker. I didn't communicate my needs to my h in a language that he could understand me. Nor did I communicate my expectations of marriage with him before we got married. (silly me, I thought being employed, drug free, and a nice person was a given!!)<P>Anyway, I think that divorce is devastatingly sad, ESPECIALLY when there are children involved, as in my case. At the same time, I do believe that some us come out better people with empowered with a deeper knowledge of self and a higher understanding of what relationships and marriage are about. Those two things make us very attractive.<P>I can't help but remain optimistic that someday I will remarry (I'm not dating now, nor have I dated anyone other than my husband for the last 8 years). The next time I see myself partnered with a mature, sensible, and loving mate. I simply won't except anything less.

TS,<P>Me personly, I have figured out to a certain degree why I tend to slander my STBX. It is an avenue for me to vent my resentments. I <B>TRY</B> to only do it when I'm with my most intiment friends.<P>The reason I inevitable chose to proceed with my D is I was tired of being a hostage to my feelings of what if...and the only feelings I felt toward her was/are absolute dissapointment. Had she done what you did, which IM ever so HO was the homourable thing, and try to recommit to our marriage I honestly believe we would have recovered. However she was/is caught in the grips pf her addiction and the motivator is avoiding her tab.<P>How do you reconcile your feelings of love toward your ex? IMO you don't, you surrender to the fact that you do love him and not worry about why. eventualy those feelings will pass or at least not effect you emotions to the point that you can move on completly and with out hesitation. This is how it was for me when I stopped using. <B>I LOVE DRUGS</B> However I cannot ever use again. It causes me too much emotional pain. I surrender to the fact that they failed me, instead of taking away my emotional pain they caused more. Make sence? Just because <B>He</B> doesn't love you, mean you are sick. It simply means that for whatever reason, probably his narcisism, he doesn't love you. More than likely he chose to save his face instead of his [censored]. You on the other hand have chosen to save your [censored]. Who's the better? In my oh so judgemental opinion, you are. You owned your mistake and tried to ammend it. You did that for you. When I make ammendments to people I have harmed I accept the fact that they may not accept my amendment. I still do it for my own honour and humility.<P>You are fortunate in that you are aware of your feelings and can express them. A gift that cannot be understated.<P>Take good care.<P>Love Ya,<P>Bill <BR>

.<p>[This message has been edited by Trapped Mom (edited March 21, 2001).]

TS,<P>I am one who says the STBX has mental illness. And she will be one to agree with me. She has OCD, bulemia, BDD, and I say BPD, but she doesn't agree with that one. She doesn't fall into the strick definitions, but shows the characteristics under stress.<P>She is highly functioning, her mother has BDD, her father has OCD, and her mother has BPD I suspect. Now I knew something was wierd, the BPD is weird, and I read a bunch of books, but until i read the one Nellie suggested, could i put my finger on it.<P>The BPD book has exact matches to my STBX's behavior, so how do I defend her?<P>But also, the new research has more accurate definitions of disorders, much better examples and understandings.<P>we know so much more, that more labels are easier.<P><B> so that is why i say she is mentally ill </B><P>thl<BR>

I have been through a phase of labeling my ex as "ill" and also through a phase of labeling myself as "ill". Only recently have I realised that although I may not have been perfect, my ex's problems still exist without me and that my "imperfections" are getting better.<P>I no longer consider her "ill" even though her behavior could be considered proof of such by some. I really don't understand her behavior, which is the only honest answer I can give anyone. I don't love the person she has become, but I do believe that when she stops blaming me for her problems that she will start to "get better".<P>The stress of illicit affairs and complications of divorces are the only reasonable guesses I have for the causes of her irrational actions.

WIFTT,<BR>I wasn't trying to single you out. I was thinking about my self and just a general trend to say "my ex is a such-n-such". I often wonder if I'm mentally ill. Really. I've met a couple of people who are bi-polar and there have been times in my life that I wonder. I was anorexic as a teenager, but I think that had more to do with the fact that my dad was beating the cr*p out of me and my sister every so often and couldn't stay sober more than a couple of days. After I moved out, it stopped within a couple of years (anorexia that is). <P>I also wonder about my ex a bit. He used to have panic attacks for no reason at all. Would just come out of the blue. Then there was always the occasional (like once every 3-6 mo before my affair) screaming he would do at me. I mean, blue in the face, till I started crying. After my affair it turned into every few days, then went to every week or so for about a year. Which book did Nellie tell you about? I'm curious now.