Does anyone have any advice for my seemingly hopeless situation?<P>Married 12 years. Two kids. W files for divorce 2 mo's ago. Didn't discuss it with me first, although she's been unhappy for a long time, years I guess (and admittedly did suggest divorce years ago). She's no longer in love with me. We didn't communicate well for a long time (until after the divorce filing). We didn't know how to fix our problems, and I guess I ignored them. "Little" things like a lack of compliments and of public displays of affection came to fester within her until a lack of self-esteem developed, along with many other problems. Now we're communicating better, but she's obstinate and stubborn, won't even consider trying to "fix" us, because there is no "us," since I lost her years ago, and she says she's just now been able to build up the strength to end it. She's dug herself out of the hole she was in, and won't consider going back, even though I've told her that I don't want us to go back to the way we were, that I want to fix us and to fix myself, so that we can do it right. We've talked to Steve, she filled out the questionaires, and she even agreed to attend the MB seminar, but she's becoming increasingly belligerant and cold. She's talking now about not going to the seminar, about not talking with Steve any more, and about one of us moving out. Says she only agreed to talk with Steve to help me come to accept the situation and so that I will be all right. She says that she knows her feelings won't change, and she's angered by the fact that Steve and I are suggesting that they could. Just as I didn't listen to her for years, she thinks that I'm not listening now, that I'm not respecting her feelings, and that Steve is full of sh__. She's angry that I won't just accept this, move on, and let her move on with her life. She views me as a "friend" at best, and the thought of again having a relationship with me as a H makes her sick. I really don't know how things got to this point. For me, divorce was never an option, and I truly want to fix this, not only for me and the kids, but for her too. Yet she'll have nothing of it. I guess I've hurt her too deeply over the years, unintentionally, and even though much of the hurt was based on misunderstandings and false assumptions about my feelings toward her. Now she doesn't trust anything I say, and has no desire to try to get back any feelings or to have a H/W relationship with me. Is all really lost? Do I just give up? Is there anything I can do to reach her and to change the situation?

Sorry to hear about your situation. I really understand how you feel. I am new to this situation so I dont have a lot of advice except to look on this board. I have found a wealth of comfort and compassion from everyone in here. I still can't come to terms with the idea of divorce as it was never an option to me either. All I can do is offer you a sympathetic ear. <BR>arm6868@yahoo.com

I'm so sorry to hear of your being in this very seemingly dark season. I was just having a hard moment, when I came to the site and read your post. You were writing about me, in the last 3 years. I was married 17 years, and 2 kids. I guess I would let you know to give her the space she needs. I assume she was a homemaker all these years? Don't tell her "see, I'm changing." Just do the work on yourself. It has been building up in her for years, and she came to a place where it had to come out, because it became a fight for "survival" of what little left she has. All you wrote, I said to my X. Almost word for word. I told my X that I would go to counseling not to save our marriage, but for him. He had been going to a counselor not because he felt he needed help, but to get "his" marriage back. When he saw that I was being "obstinate and stubborn" he quit going. So much for his working on himself, although, I can understand the "why bother?" to change if it isn't going to "save my marriage". We have to come to a place of healing for ourselves, becoming a whole person, whether the marriage will be saved or not. The Lord cares more about the person than the marriage. He is in the "business" of healing us as individuals, not healing marriages. If in the process the marriage is healed, all the more "glory". My marriage wasn't saved. Yes, I was the one that filed, but I know that the Lord will never take a man's will from him. My X, after all he "did" in "changing", is more who was before than ever. So much for "this time it's real. I will never go back". I had in my gut the feeling that all he was doing was for saving "his" family. I didn't want him to "sacrifice" who he was for me, because in time, he would resent it, if he kept it up, but I will never know. We had been through so many of these "changes", only to go back to the same old. Usually, less than a month. I just couldn't do it anymore. Yes, I'm lonely. I don't like not having another adult here, or the financial strain. <BR> This is going to be a very hard "growing" period for you, while you go through the "waiting" and uncerntainty(sp?). Take care, and just keep posting here. You will find alot of compassion, grace, and "advice" from those who going through the same. It helps TREMENDOUSLY knowing you're not the only one.

I haven't posted in many months, but thank you for your support. I'm still riding that roller-coaster of emotions, and am still hanging in there. W and I went to MB seminar last November, but then W would no longer talk with Steve. W still won't see a counselor, or even our minister. W's still intent on ending the marriage. I've tried to apply MB principles, and am amazed at how positive I've been able to stay (most of the time). I'm just trying to persevere, to make changes in myself, and hope that in time it will make a difference. On the positive, side, the kids still don't know, even though W originally said she'd only wait until after Christmas to tell them. But I think she's becoming increasingly frustrated, and thinks I'm stalling the D. Soon, I think, the legal system will push us toward the D, as we're supposed to mediate soon. W has seen changes in me, wonders why I didn't do all that before, when it would have mattered. She still thinks its too late, because she no longer "trusts" me, and no longer has feelings of being "in love" with me. She insists that she cannot get those feelings back, and that it hasn't happened in all these many months (actually, almost a year since the D filing).<P>W has asked: HOW does she get back lost feelings of "love" and HOW can she even "trust" me again. I'm not sure I've seen or heard a good answer to that yet. Any ideas?

As I am sure you know, love is a choice that we make. She is still holding your account overdrawn.<P>Winning this battle is all about maintaining an objective perspective, IMHO. That's why we LB, and fail for the most part. You are taking her words, and actions to heart. That will not help. Denial won't either, but you need to be realistic, and optimistic...a nearly impossible combination. Try to remember that 5% make it back...try to develop a 5% mindset, and resolve, and patience.<P>If she is getting increasingly belligerent, and impatient...then she is moving out of withdrawal, and into conflict. This is good progress, but you don't see it that way, naturally. The trick is to let her vent, but not LB yourself. In other words, do not go there, but don't try to defend yourself, or stop her from venting. I'd avoid Plan B in favor of Plan A. While she vents, make <B>subtle</B> deposits. If you are too obvious, she will get angry all over. Once she vents some more, then you can step it up somewhat, but you have to be very careful.<P>Here is something you can try that should establish some rapport if you are successful, and won't hurt in any case. People view the world largely through a favored sense...sight, sound, touch, taste or smell. You can tell which one by listening to them talk. For example, my XW uses touch/taste primarily...so her talk is largely qualified by words and phrases that use those 'sensory modalities'...i.e. she 'smells a rat', or 'has a bad feeling about something'. By matching the other person's modality, you establish rapport. It will improve your communications remarkably. You can practice it with anyone. Match their posture, amount of eye contact, space, etc. <I>without</I> just mimicking them...if you are too obvious, you will offend them. I practice it at work, and I am getting pretty good at making people very comfortable about discussing things with me that they would not ordinarily discuss. Its amazing at what they are offering up without me even asking them!<P>She is doing the stalling here...it really does not matter when you tell the kids...after this Christmas is before next Christmas, ad infinitum. Plus, she actually asked you how she is supposed to get those feelings back...which is encouraging.<P>What is the answer? Well, I can't say that I know, but I do know that time, and a lot of patience and change on your part is a big part of it. When you talk about how much you love her, etc....do her eyes move side to side a lot? I noticed this in my XW, it was always when I would tell her how I would make the changes, and that she should just give me the chance to show her. I wondered what the hell was up with that for a long time. Then I read it in a book. It is a sign of internal dialog...she was engaged in self-talk at the time, and trying to ignore what I was saying. Unfortunately, now I know...too late. What I should have done then and there was to file the separation paperwork, and leave her alone...and <B>show</B> her, not <B>tell</B> her. Plus, I should've let her start the PA, and not point out the EA. What I ended up doing was let her get the D with no separation, and start the PA in a way that she has been able to justify. Not the worst scenario, but not the best, either.<P>I feel for you, friend...but understand that all is not lost. There are ways to get back to good, but <I>none</I> of them involve her actions/reactions at all...only yours. It is all too easy to justify doing the exact wrong thing. For example, I had a friend stay here last week who needs to be in Plan B. I told him all about it. Then I told him that my XW started an EA before the divorce. BIG MISTAKE, because he called his W right then, and there to tell her about my W...bad for him, and ME. Today, he told me that he told her not to talk to my XW...great, he's really helping both of us there! He thinks he is doing the right thing, but he's not. I talked to his W yesterday, and I told her that I told him to leave her alone, and let her sort things out for a while...she thanked me...then he started bugging her again. Arrrrggghhh!<P>I think that you are needing some more patience...this might go to a divorce...be prepared for that. The question you need to answer is how committed to HER are you? Committed enough to let the marraige end? Committed enough to let her have the space that she needs right now? This will get tougher before it gets better, that much is evident.<P>You have done all the bad and good necessary to her. How you handle the next stage is important. My friend thinks that everything is telling him to put the pursuit into overdrive. He will drive her away with that so fast...it will make his head spin!<P>Become an expert communicator of feelings...not just words about feelings. Most people use visual, or auditory modalities...become more aware of this, and try to match them. Once you get comfortable with it, start using it with her. Establish rapport...that is what leads to trust.<P>Take care...I am praying for you! God bless. -Mike