Hi friends,<P>I am having a problem with my ex regarding visitation. He seems to want visitation when its convenient to him and not on a "schedule". When I ask him where my support check is he claims he's not working. When I ask him about his visitation, he claims he's working. I can't keep up with the lies.<P>He asked for the kids on Thanksgiving and specifically said he wanted a "family meal" , meaning him, OW and MY KIDS. I couldn't help but hope he might choke on a turkey bone, but I graciously agreed and asked what time he'd drop them off on Friday. (Kids staying overnight, hint hint). He said no way and backed out.<P>Now he wants to pick the kids up at 10am on Xmas day and wants to plan his day with his kids around his and OW's other plans. He does this all the time.<P>Am I just being a bitter ex wife, or isn't visitation to be set in writing for a reason. So there's not all this communication each week?? I should know when he is coming and dropping them off. I should know what holiday's he has them and that's it. I would say that he should get NO visitation on xmas since he walked out on xmas last year, thus showing his true feelings on the importance of the day, but again, I appear to be the bad guy.<P>Can you tell me what type of arrangements you have chosen for holidays/visitation so I can get some ideas for when I go back to court on this? <P>What holidays are you rotating as opposed to sharing?? Do you think New Years Eve should be listed as a holiday to share??<P>Thanks for your help,<BR>Dana<BR>

Dana,<P>Man our Xes continue to keep me baffled!<BR>I won't go into what mine is up to but I'm sure you can imagine! LOL<P>She is Taking Abbey to Va tomorrow and will return on Sunday. I have Abbey from Dec23-Jan1. Next year we'll switch.<P>X and I have shared/joint custody. I have A every Monday and Tuesday night. R has her every Wednesday and Thursday nights then we alternate Fri, Sat, and Sunday nights. So far this arrangement is working well, as R lives 3 miles from me and daycare is also in the same 3 mile radius. We do the majority of pick ups at school so there isn't the seperation trauma.<P>As far as your sit. My feeling is you have to choose which holiday. If he wants T-Day then yes I'd say til the next day they stay with him, Then you get X-mas. Then next year reverse. Common sence. If I were in your shoes I'd tell him this IS how it will be. He can't be a dead beat piece of **** dad and then expect you to just say OK to his outrageous ideas. I wouldn't budge on the X-mas deal at all. IMO they loose first X-mas because they booked, not us! Hell He abandoned his family on X-mas last year...well **** him and his sorry self-centered ways. <P>Sorry, I just get pushed outa shape when I hear about these sorry dad out there.<P>Bill

My STBXH have developed a "tentative" visitation schedule but like you he wants to change it whenever it is convenient for him. He lives out-of-state now but comes to town for business from time to time. This summer he often only gave me one day's notice that he was coming and expected that I should oblige him since he is not the custodial parent. He has Thanksgiving this year and I have Christmas week, he has week after Christmas through New Year's (he is getting married to his OW during this week if our divorce is final - actually I wouldn't put it past him to get married even if we are not legally divorced yet - OW says "jump" and he says "how high?". He then has spring break (my daughter is 11) and then has her for 7 weeks during the summer. Next year we will trade - I'll get Thanksgiving, week after Christmas and Spring Break. If I don't really have plans when he calls at the last minute I try and accommodate him - don't want to play games. My daughter went to see him late in October (breaks my heart to put her on an airplane just so she can see her dad) and she really did not want to go but did not have the courage to tell him that she wanted to stay with me and go to some Halloween parties with her friends. Supposedly when she is 12 or 13 she can decided for herself how often and for how long she visits him.

Dana,<BR>Sorry to hear your having these problems. Ask for standard visitation which is every other weekend from Fri evening to Sun Eve and then one evening a week. <P>Ask you lawyer or domestic relations court for a standard visitation schedule. Here in OH., everything is all written out. <P>If you have a fax number I could send you a copy of mine. Again this is for my county in Ohio. <P>My x is off Thanksgiving and hasn't said anything about it. I'm taking the kids to see my mother so we will be away. X has the kids on Sat and Sun.<P>X is working on Xmas and asked if I could bring the kids over Christmas Eve after church. Nothing has been said about New Year's. I imagine she will be working as she started a new job in July.<P>I has problems with my x over the summer doing the same. She would not give me times when she was going to pickup or drop off the kids. I threatened going to the standard visitation whcih would reduce her time and she finally started giving me the time.<P>Lately she has been giving me the "can I pick them up later" or pick them both up at same time when she could have a chance to spend some one on one time. They get dropped off early a lot of times too.<P>Hang in and God Bless,<P>Bob

Yikes Dana! Don't fall into the same trap I did with the ex. Right at first when we divorced he exercised his visitation the way it was written. Then he got to busy with his girlfriend and her family and his weekends were scattered. Then he'd go months without seeing the kids. Instead of taking an entire weekend he'd want a few hours here and there and I always gave them to him. Figured I was doing the kids a favor. Better a few hours with dad instead of none right? Then he'd call and ORDER them for an hour or two and ORDER me to drive them the two miles to his home because he refused to pick them up. Over the past two years it just got out of hand. Finally I told him he exercises his entire visitation and he picks them up or no deal. Well, for the past month he HAS been doing it. They write up a visitation order for the kids too. That way they are "suppose" to know when they can count on their ncp to be there with them. IF you already have a court ordered schedule stick with it. As time goes on and he follows it then I think it's very fair to be flexible and work together as a team but he has to hold up his end first. Geez, I feel for you. Been there, done that. Best of luck!

Also try divorcenet.com. They have state specifics in regards to divorce and they may have something in regards to visitation.<P>

I’m a step-mom and my H has joint-custody of his two kids. We live within two miles of the kids’ mother’s home...which is good logistically, but it means we see her a lot more often than I would like. I know what you mean about too much communication.<P>It is a great arrangement until you consider our privacy...as the kids are likely to come crashing in the door at any time to get something they’ve forgotten.<P>We have the kids Tuedays and Wednesdays and every other weekend. On our days to have the kids, we pick them up at her house after work. We try to get there immediately after work, but she is flexible if something comes up and we are a little late. If she has plans when this happens, the kids will be at a neighbor's house. We, too, are flexible...we are often involved with the kids on days we are not scheduled to have them when scheduling conflicts require us to accompany one of the kids at an after school activity or when we attend their games and such. <P>Although H’s and his X’s decree outlined the standard vacation arrangements and rotating holidays, it is not strictly followed. We don’t get the kids for the scheduled summer vacation, we tend to keep the same routine schedule going and work around scheduled trips, camps and such. We are pretty good about being flexible about holidays, as long as changes are not at the last minute. Scheduling is the key to being sure feathers don’t get ruffled. All holidays rotate, but we’re flexible if a family reunion is scheduled or a trip is desired. When a change to the schedule is not mutually agreeable, the normal schedule wins out.<P>There are some things we do differently, though. We feel it is important the kids remain in their original church home, so even when it is our weekend to have the kids, she picks them up for church and returns them in time for lunch. We also feel it is important for the “tradition” of Christmas that they always wake up and experience Christmas morning in the same place every year...so, no matter who has the kids for Christmas, they spend Christmas Eve with her (we all have dinner together at H’s sister's) and we go over on Christmas morning for the opening of gifts. Then, if its our year to have the kids, they pack up some of their favorite gifts and we head out to celebrate with my family. It is fortunate that we can all behave well enough to do this...I know it would not be possible in all situations.<P>Of course, life is not all roses. The last weekend we had the kids I fixed a huge Sunday lunch. Then I got a call from her while she was on her way back from church saying her daughter was joining the other youth from the church in serving the church lucheon and would be home in a couple of hours. She brought her son back with a take out dinner from church. She had known about it beforehand but had not bothered to tell H or me. Lots of left-overs and one deflated step-mom because lunch did not turn out to be the occasion I had planned. Again, if I had known about it ahead of time, it would not have been an issue.<P>My overall experience is that if a set schedule is generally followed, with both parties being equally flexible to special occasions and emergencies, the kids will have the routine they need and everyone can be comfortable with the results. Always keep the children's best interest in mind.<P>Peace, LLL<P><BR>[This message has been edited by LLL (edited November 21, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by LLL (edited November 22, 2000).]

Dana,<P>I'm in the same boat as Sue was. My stbx wants to see the kids when it's convenient for him, though it hasn't been convenient since July. Even then he didn't stick to the schedule. NOT ANYMORE!!<P>I left him a message stating that this year, according to the visitation schedule, he can have the kids from Friday-Sunday if he chooses to do so. I told him that he would have to take them the entire time or have nothing. So far I haven't heard from him! Guess he thought he was gonna get them for a couple of hours and that would be ok! LOL LOL <P>Stick to the schedule!<P>Mitzi

{{{{{{William, Barrington,Bob,Bonnie,LLL,Mitz}}}}}}<P>Thanks for the replies. <P>To Bob, thanks so much for the offer, hey can I hook my pc up as a fax?? lol<P>LLL - Thank you for the detailed information, I really appreciate it, and I haven't seen you on the board as of yet, so welcome and happy holidays.<P>I think what LLL said about the kids waking up in the same place for xmas every year is very very reasonable. I really am going to think about that one, and also to LLL please email me if possible I'd like to ask you a few other questions some time if you are up for it at MissDMBrown@aol.com . (these concern being a step mom issue that I'm in need of some answers on)<P>I dread going back to court, but I suppose its coming up on a year and I oughtta be able to have this stuff worked out by now, don't you think???<P>The thought of going into court and staring down Ex and OW once again truly disgusts me. I only hope the judge will sympathize with me, and I wonder if I'll get the same one as before. (he sympathized with me)<P>Thanks again friends and I'll watch for more replies on this thread. <P>Hugs,Dana<BR>

Hugs to {{{{{{{DANA}}}}}}}}}<P>I know that this time of year is the worst for you, and I understand why. take your time, go slowly, and carry a big stick to club the X with.<P>Here's a funny for ya, then to seriousness. We went to 8 yo d parent teacher conference tonight. I called ahead and said i would be about 5 minutes late. I told her where I was in town, and what road i was taking, and then we hung up. Next thing i know she calls me back to apologize for questioning my choice of roads. She doesn't want to have any anger in the meeting. yada, yada, yada. . . She then says she thought I might be going to pick her up. I said and I quote, "I'm feeling great! I'm going to be a little sarcastic, but WHY would I want to pick you up?" these X's are out of their minds, pure and simple. she said, "I know, I know, I'm not feeling well."<P>OK, topic at hand, Visitation.<P>We agreed on Thanksgiving and Christmas as a swap, I got Thanksgiving this year, X gets Christmas morning this year. We are splitting christmas day between the two of us, at noon, so the kids have both parents on Christmas day.<P>The other arrangement we have regarding vacations is that I have priority on even years, and X has priority on odd years. or vice versa. That way each has priority in determining vacation schedules with work, etc.<P>X ran into sticky situation last summer, in that if I set up vacation two weeks so that I get both her weekends at the ends, and mine in the middle, she looses out. So we agreed, vacation is 5pm to 5 pm on Fridays.<P>But if you can't be flexible, stick to the schedule. pure and simple, and mediator told X that if it gets bad, you can goto court and get it agreed that if you are more than 30 minutes late, and no arrangement, you lose the weekend.<P>so there are ways to protect yourself from X's, you just gotta be strong, and not put up with much crap. of course, having a body guard helps alot too <P>so that is our arrangement for vacations, but X is very cooperative now. I just found out that she trashed part of her Grand Voyager after a mediation meeting because she was so mad. don't know what at, but she was mad at something! Drove over a parking curb. I asked her tonight what was the big dent from.<P>Now that I am in a good mood, being back to my old perky self, she is very nice, chatty, Plan A if you ask me. I'll take it at face value. Told her about the Internet friend reunion in Nashville, she was so nice, I was dying inside. She just is so timid with stuff like that, she was putting up a good front.<P>I didn't mention that the sole purpose was to get together to trash our X's, and have an orgy! I will next time she asks.<P>Ah well, the strong survive, and so will you Dana. Take alot of suggestions here, and decide which you like best, and go with it.<P>hugs again<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DANA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>tom