What a roller coaster weekend so far!!! <P>Guess in a nutshell-since my last post:<BR>Went to a new counselor (like him a lot)- switched to a man in the hopes that he could explain some of H's actions- New counselor says "Darned if I know"- Anyway, that was Wednesday. Thanksgiving- H calls and asks if I want to see him. (Of course I do.) I figure it is really to cancel out on his coming by Friday to pick up some more things that he left at the house, but.... ITS NOT!!. We have a pleasant conversation for about an hour about nothing in general. Says he will see me Friday!!! Ok, so I am now trying not to get too excited. This is the same man who 2 weeks ago was so uncomforatable around me and did NOT want to have anything to do with me. Friday morning comes around- we spend about 2 hours together (very pleasant no relationship questions), I help him load up his fish tank and he leaves... I hear from him later on that night. Same general conversation... OK, so now it's Saturday- He calls me this afternoon and asks if I want to do dinner! I say ok... Anyway, we spent about an hour together, discussed again nothing about this situation, but everything seems pretty smooth. <BR>I am trying not to read anything into all of the above. One day he wants basically nothing to do with me, and now I have seen him 3 days in a row??? Does this have meaning. He even cancelled a job Monday so that he would be able to take me to the airport. I am so confused. Right when I start to get on with my life and back off (almost completely) he is suddenly here. Please understand that there isn't much I wouldn't do to restore this marriage, but at the same time, I am confused as to what he wants. I always get an "I love you" from him, a kiss when we greet or leave, and a hug. It seems like as long as we avoid this whole "issue" (aka discuss the relationship) everything is great. I don't want to fall into the same pit that we were in, but I also dont want to scare him away. I think I am being very patient and intend to continue to be so, but how do I file this all away without getting my hopes up??? I feel like a 16 year old kid going out on a first date every time I see him. For you guys and gals who might have experienced some of this out there, any read on this???<BR>arm6868@yahoo.com

You intuitively are doing the right things that I only just now discovered on the divorce busters website. That is to NOT TALK about the RELATIONSHIP at all. Simply enjoy whatever pleasurable experiences you are able to have with your spouse, string enough of them together in a sequence, and rebuild the relationship WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP. <BR>The keys are in your own words:<BR>"We have a pleasant conversation for about an hour about nothing in general"<BR>"we spend about 2 hours together (very pleasant no relationship questions"<BR>"It seems like as long as we avoid this whole "issue" (aka discuss the relationship) everything is great."<P>You're doing great, just keep it up. And no talk about OR (Our Relationship) - that will come with time.

Thanks True North... Needed to hear some reassurement!!! What I am really doing is just taking everything involving "us" one day at a time and have stopped having expectations. Whatever happens, happens and I know now that I will be "ok" with it. I know that if this doesn't work out I will hurt for a long time, but eventually it will ease and I will be able to see a future again. For me the key right now is just staying busy and having backup plans in the event that he cancels on me or it just doesn't feel "right". <BR>

blindsided123,<P>Just my $.02 - <P>You may want to work on your inner strength as well. Be as strong on the outside as you can, even though you may be weak-kneed on the inside. Inner strength I think is a powerful attractive force. What is so hard about the situations we are in is to regain the strength of character we once had. <P>Maybe that is why so many wayward spouses come back around just when we are "putting our lives back together". Maybe it is as simple as that we no longer appear weak to them and unable to deal with the situation. Once they see strength return in us, maybe that in itself helps "lift the fog they are in"...<P>Mike

Mike has a valid point, which is echoed over on the Divorce Busters site. I suspect the betrayed spouse regaining their independence, strength and dignity makes them more attractive to the wandering spouse, and that around that same time frame the wandering spouse starts noticing that Mr/Ms right is not that magical, wonderful, dream person.<P>The key is how long can we wait? In my exit session with Jennifer, she suggested a year minimum, which falls in line with Harleys life of an affair. Certainly more time is required in some cases, less in others, but mans (or womans) social nature can make this time frame untennable (we all get lonely). <P>Beats me....<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Well, my year is officially up the first week in February, and I see no change, indication, twinkle, flicker so I am planning on the moving on, although I don't like that saying, i prefer, I am making significant progress towards my goal of being happier, healthier, of being a better person that i ever was, and of showing the kids what a stronger parent I am without always getting disagreed with and fought about.<P>tom<P>

These posts are hinting at a subject I have been thinking about recently. Physical attractiveness is listed as one of MB's top 10 EN's....but I am wondering why attractiveness is defined only as physical attributes?<P>One of my top 5 EN's is attractiveness, but it is not physical. To me attractiveness is an inside/outside thing, the inside being what is most important to me. The attributes I consider attractive are:<P>good character (moral soundness; responsibility, accountability, honesty, dedication, compassion, humility, courteousness; fairness,) maturity, self confidence, inner strength, masculinity, a strong sense of responsibility to be the provider and protector; humor, playfullness, good manners, appreciation, loyalty, the ablity to apply life’s lessons, positive attitude, and the ability to avoid or turn around a tense situation by finding and sharing something positive or humorous about it.<P>Something to think about?<P>Peace, LLL

Physical attractiveness means specifically that one takes care of their body.<P>meaning, you keep your beard trimmed if you have one, you keep your hair neat, if you have any, you stay within your healthy range of weight for your age, and body size, and<BR>you take care in dressing up, to "look" like whom your H fell in love with, aged appropriately.<P>It does not mean "CHANGING" who you are, it means maintaining who you are, aging gracefully, and dreassing appropriately.<P>As an example, my X was a large woman, large bones, carried extra weight well. It did not bother me, but she refused to dress attractive, therefore she refused to look physically attractive to me.<P>she loved sweats, did not like tight blouses to show off what she did have. she just never looked the part, always dressed weird to me, but that's who she wanted to be, and<BR>she told me that harley's EN that one should be/stay/dress attractive for your spouse was a crock of $hit.<P>although she thought that i should exercise regularly everyday, even though it will only change my weight by about 10 pounds max. to her, physical shape was important, but she did not relate that to Harley's EN oflooking physically attractive.<P>oh well, another locked door.<P>WIFTTy

WIFTT,<P>I guess you're X changed over the years...she dressed in a manner that was attractive to you when you first met, but in later years she changed her style? Or did you not agree with the change of style that resulted as she aged and matured? Just a question, WIFTT, I'm not familiar with your story. : )<P>I noticed SoTired2000's remark about inner strength being a "power attractive force" and thought it related to some of my recent thoughts about what is attractive to me and why attractiveness on the list of top 10 EN's is limited in description to physical attributes. Being that I am attracted to self confidence, a positive attitude, inner strength, etc, I might find my husband less attractive if he lost those attributes. <P>Although I wasn't talking about trying to change people, I will admit I do have some unreconciled thoughts, about some of the MB concepts...that if my H lists an annoying behavior I must try to get rid of it...or if he lists an EN that requires a big change in my behavior I may have to make changes with which I am uncomfortable. I know I must weigh the comfortableness of the change against the ability to meet his EN. But I also feel there is the possibility that some things spouses list as LB's and EN's may be unreasonable. (I guess you can tell at this point we have not yet shared our LB and EN lists.)<P>Oh well, sorry to have butted in and changed the subject.<P>Peace, LLL

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Thanks All}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} <P>Please don't apologize for changing a subject. Makes me think about other things as well. I think everyone has a point. It does seem that since I have been less "pitiful" (since he left) I have been more attractive to him. He came by this morning and took me to the airport. We had a nice conversation and a relatively pleasant goodbye. I didn't beg or even ask him to wait with me until the plane boarded. Just gave a hug and said that I loved him and would see him in a couple of weeks. Much better than the last trip where I ended up teary at the gate. Only succeeded in making both of us feel bad on that one. <BR>As for the physical attractiveness. I do think that we all seem to find a "comfort zone" after being together for awhile and tend to dress for others instead of our spouse. I have to admit... my favorite dress at home is shorts and an old t-shirt. I wore a uniform to work for 13 years and now I dress up for clients... I want to be comfy when I am home. Maybe it is not the best idea, but hey, I dont care what he wears around the house or anywhere for that matter. I have always found him attractive no matter what. As for weight.... I have to admit that I have put on a few pounds since we met, but he never had a negative word to say. He was always supportive. I am now losing weight (not exactly by choice but not complaining either!). I still love the man that I married, not the physical exterior. I could care less if he gained or lost weight as long as he felt good about himself... <BR>Ok, so now I am lonely again and want to go home!!! These next two weeks are going to be rough! <P>Thanks again all! <BR>arm6868@yahoo.com

LLL,<P>no, she stayed the same, I grew up, I was hoping that she would grow up with me.<P>She also has lots of esteem, mental illness issues, so lets just leave it at,<P>there were times when i wished my X would be a little more daring and provocative with her dress, and when i mentioned them, i was shot down. although when she wanted to "date", she spent a ton of money on a new look,<P>I guess the new looks are only for catching, for bait, once you get the man, there's nothing to dress for.<P>WIFTTy<P>