Hi Everyone,<P>I usually hang out on Gen Questions II board but just recently found out H filed (Tuesday, Dec 5th - my BDay).<P>He said he would wait until aft the Holidays but I guess OW pressured him into doing it now. She's extremely jealous and hates me. She seeks revenge on me. If you need my story (very very sorted) it's on Gen Questions II.<P>I'm really hurting and need some help thru this, especailly right now ... the Holidays are going to be extra hard. Has anyone else out there had their WS file during the Holidays??? How did you get thru it?<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

Hi Jo,<P>Let me be the first to say, I'm sorry to see you here.<P>The first holiday season in this mess is tough, I'm there myself. My solution is making new traditions with my son. Decorations, meals anything to put a new imprint on this time of year.<P>There are some very wise and compassionate people in here, and they will help you through this. They have helped me immensely.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Thanks for responding cOOker.<P>It's 4:00a here in WA and I can't really sleep. I think I'm still in shock from the latest news, thoughts and constant images keep going thru my mind trying to sort this all out.<P>I had tried my best to make this an amicable deal with my H, but all my efforts failed. He has pretty much made this as hurtful as it could get. He was basically clueless when I asked him why he couldn't wait until at least aft the Holidays, said "there's always going to be Holidays" and "no one time is better than another". What is that anyway ... denial, blatant meaness, fog ... WHAT?<P>When I found out he filed on my BDay all I could think was "He's a Monster", just so cruel. <P>Dissapointment doesn't nearly describe how I feel right now. Disbelief is a good start tho.<P>Jo

Disbelief is a pretty good description of where I am now.<P>Amazing, incredulous....<P>There is something about that "new" thing that is so intoxicating, that it transcends all rational thought on their part. And there is NOTHING we can do can about it.<P>My signature is how it has been for me...<P><BR>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Jo,<P>I've been reading your threads on the GQ forum. I'm really sorry!<P>My stbx left 2 days before Christmas last year. Talk about an [censored]!! <P>It is very hard to get thru them and somedays you think you won't, but you do! I talked to my best friend everyday. And I spent A LOT of time here!! If I wasn't posting, I was reading. I didn't sleep, (I see you are experiencing this) and didn't eat for 9 days. It's pure hell but YOU CAN DO IT!!<P>Remember Jo, we've all been there and we can help you thru this!<P>((((((((((JO)))))))))),<BR>Mitzi

Jo.....<P>I'm so sorry this stuff had to happen to you. My heart and prayers go out to you.<P>You, Jo, are one of the good "guys"!<P>Lou

Jo,<BR> I'm so sorry you're in this place. I wanted to let you know I'm also in WA..Last Holiday season was indescibable for me and what I went through, as everyone here will say about their own situations. I guess there is a reason some of us just get numb...the pain would physically kill us. It amazes me what we live through. At this time though, with it being so raw, at least for me the last year, it didn't help ease my pain to hear it does get better. If I may, though, just offer a suggestion that I wish I'd done, and I finally did, helped IMMENSELY!! and that was to start "journaling". Get a theme book, and just write, write, write. There is tremendous healing in getting all that ugliness that is inside out on paper. Let all those raw emotions out on paper. The beauty of a journal, is you can be honest, and not have to worry about "how you come across" to who you might be talking to. You can rant and rave, and just let it ALL out.<BR>I want to leave this quote from So Tired 2000, from Oct 28, I think.<BR>I wrote this in my prayer journal...<BR>"...I truly believe that God does in fact answer our prayers, but as you found out, He usually answers them quietly in His own time. When you begin to believe in that and have "faith" in the above, you begin to realize that your present situation is only temporary and THIS TOO SHALL PASS, that all we need to do is to focus on the light at the end of the tunnel-not so much the distance to that light, BUT RATHER THE LIGHT ITSELF. By doing that, before we know it, we will be out of the tunnel while not even thinking about the darkness we are travelling through..."<BR>For me this was very powerful. Thanks ST200.<BR>JDQ

Hi Jo,<P>I'm so very sorry you're here, but know that we are all here for you.<P>Dec 5th will always be the worst day of my life too, that's when our divorce was finalised.<BR>I never ever thought he would let it get to that.<P>Dec 5th will be awful for you for a while, how COULD he do that on your bday. However, as cooker says, time does heal. And Dec 5th WILL become your day again. As it should be.<P>One thing I have tried to hold on to throughout this mess of mine, is that my <BR>ex-h really isn't a bad person. Yes he has made some big mistakes (is that an understatement or what??) and yes, I think he will live to regret his choices, but deepdown this behaviour is not him.<BR>I guess that's the beauty of knowing someone, really knowing them. These OP don't know our spouses, it takes years to get to know someone like we know our spouses. It's probably not really your H either.<P>Your H sounds like mine was a year ago, it was 'everything' for this other person, and very little for us. Even his children. He tried where his children were concerned, but didn't succeed for quite some time.<P>Eventually this op wore my H out. She was also jealous and possessive, and that's what ruined their relationship.<P>I still haven't found my H - he's gone, but one day I believe he will come back. Maybe not to me, but the real person will be back.<P>I know it's hard, but let this other trollop do her stuff. Let her drive him away. If you have faith in what you had with your H, he will know and realise that what she is saying and doing is wrong. Hopefully he will see the light before it's too late. <P>I still sometimes scream (inside my head) why, or what, went wrong. Just know that you probably didn't do anything wrong. You don't deserve this, and you didn't choose this. He did. This is something that they have to go through, and we can only stand by and watch. And hopefully be the one that they want to help pick up the pieces.<P>One thing that I have always regretted is that I didn't behave like Lostva. She showed her H how much he meant to her. By her actions and her words. Whereas I was so angry and hurt that although I tried to show him that I wanted our marriage to work, I ended up pushing him away. I don't very often deal in "I wish", but in this instance I wish I could have my time over so I could just show him how much he meant to me, and that I could forgive and forget. Read any of Lostva's posts, and you will be inspired. She's a wonderful wonderful person.<P>Please do something nice for yourself. Treat yourself to something, and ALWAYS REMEMBER<BR>you are a decent loving person. You will get through this. We all do. Somehow, someway, we all find our own ways through this mess.<P>I had the weirdest thought this morning. I was thinking about divorce, and ended up thinking about Elizabeth Taylor. She must have gone through divorce, what, 8 times or something. It must have hurt each time, no matter what the circumstances. I wonder if that's why she's the way she is now.!!!! Strange huh.....<P>Remember, we're here for you. Always.<P>big hugs (and squeezes as my d says) for you<P>take care<P>Jo<BR>

My wifes birthday was the 4th, it's when it hit the fan, I found out about the other, much older man (yuck), and basically gave her the papers to fill out on the fifth. I feel like I am about to join you guys here. My story is one of allowing feelings to flow out of a warm place, like smoke, until ony coldness and reproach reside. At any point I could have said, "enough", I had neither the courage nor conviction at the time. Here I sit, in a state of my own doing, watching the Holidays approach. I went to my other home (where she and my son reside), last night and saw 15 years of Christmas decorations that we had gathered over the years. It was very hard to look at the ornaments celebrating, "baby's 1st, 2nd 3rd, Christmas etc.". We got this tacky, huge hollow snow man from my mom about six years ago, there it sits, alit and mocking me from my old front porch. There was the string of lights adorning the bushes I pruned so many times, there were the Stockings my wife so carefully glued our respective names in glitter, there was the silly snow man that sings a christmas rap song that my son gyrated to while still an infant. Oh yeah, the Holidays are well documented with suicides and such, for a good reason, they represent the holiest, family-oriented times we can share. And a spouses ability to celebrate without you is saying, "see, we don't need you". Sorry if I didn't cheer you up, you should read some of my poems!

Resilient,<P>Something to maybe consider: If your H is with OW, and he has some semblence of a conscience, he is probably doing everything in his power to "rationalize" that he is in fact doing the "right thing". Now if he can put you on the offensive, he can then say to himself "see, she is so mean and nasty - she definitely is not the wife I want". It is so unfair and to a point, frightening, that people can think this way, but the power of rationalization is strong.<P>I think, rather I know, that for the past year and a half, my wife has been trying to make "me" file for a divorce; In the things she has said to me, to other people (knowing it would get back to me) and in the things that she has done. The only problem is that I have a daily prayer that I say every morning and that is for God to remove the anger from my heart. <P>And you know what - He has. <P>I do get angry from time to time, but it does not linger - it disappears as quickly as it comes.<P>So when my wife has thrown her "daggers" at me, I am able to dodge them and not sink to her level. Unfortunately the end result with us at this point, does not seem to be a happy one - she was forced to and filed filed the papers herself. But at least I gave her no more ammunition to support her leaving. She knows that the decision is hers and hers alone (as one day she will know what a mistake it was to make).<P>And I will be able to move-on knowing that I took the higher road in this mess and I stuck to my values and beliefs. That I gave her every reason to come back and gave her more chances than I can count to at least try with us one more time.<P>I guess what I am trying to say is "don't let him get to you. Don't sink to his level - for you will only be hurting yourself more".<P>God Bless you in this time of trouble!<P>Mike

Resilient, So sorry you've joined us. But I'm glad we could be here for you.<P>Your story about your birthday is so sad. Yes, this will be a tough holiday season for you, but you can get through it. A lot of people have. I've made it through 5 holiday seasons without WABI x at home. Each year it gets easier. Still can't find a way to get everything done.<P>But you gave me a real shocker. Was I as bad as your husband? I filed on his birthday, too. But he was the one who wanted the divorce. He had already filed and had it dismissed. It had reached the point where I had to have sanity and I had little choice. And there was no gift he'd rather have.

Resilient:<P><BR>I guess you and I are in very similar situations. In my case it was my wife that just dropped the big bombshell on me just last Wednedsay.<P>It feels like the end of the world, my heart has been torn from my chest. After meeting with a psychologist for 2.5 hours and a psychiatrist for anothet 1.5 hours they perscribed clonazepam 0.5mg. One before bed and up to 3 others per day. It has really got me calmed down to the level that I can function throughout the day.<P>I have also called all my closest friends and asked them to call me 1 or 2 times per day. It helps me to have a friendly voice on the other end of the telephone and it really helps to know who your real friends might be.<P>My youngest son came to stay with me for the first few nights and to help me pass the time of day. That really helped. Yesterday, Sunday, we went to early morning Bowling and we had a lot of fun. He's the best.<P>I'm still hanging out on the emotion needs forum in case you might want to look me up, I've collected a good grouping of friends there.<P>Through the urgings of my Lawyer, since he understands that I want our marriage to survive, he suggested a proposed alternative to my wife. Our circumstances are different that yours in that there is no other man or other woman. My wife and I are still very good friends but we just have grown far apart and she is looking for her own space and freedom to grow in her own directions. <P>I will offer to you my proposal in draft and uncompleted form in hopes that it might stimulate an idea for you, here it is:<P>An Alternative Proposal to Divorce<P>Ruth:<P> I very much understand that you need your privacy, space of your own, and the freedom to grow and develop you future life on your own. It has taken me a long time to get through the denial that you have no interest in rebuilding our marriage as it has been, only better. You need your freedom. As you go through this developing stage in your life, I ask, as you often stated in your November first letter to me, to remain your friend.<P>I would like you to carefully consider that you and I get a legal separation and not a divorce. This should give to you all the freedoms that you seek, need, and deserve in your life but will still leave me the one small dignity that I cannot live without; our marriage. I am dedicated to you, until death do we part.<P>We would conduct our lives as if fully divorced by splitting all of our assets and living completely on our own. If you ever cared to be with your friend (me), I would always be there for you. I promise that I will never harass, approach or contact you unless that contact was first initiated by you.<P>If an occasion would ever occur that either of us REALLY needed each other for some tragic event in our lives we would still be "Connected", something that is very important to me. I would hope to be able to call on you at those rare times. I am speaking of events like a death in the family or very serious accident or illness of either of us.<P>I am so sorry that I pushed to hard to bring our marriage back together when what you wanted is freedom. I can't tell you how bad I feel about not being sensitive enough to realize that I was only fooling myself into thinking I could win you back into our marriage as it was, when you really need something new.<P>Please allow me this simple dignity of remaining your husband. If after a year or two or three or four or five years, this arrangement is not working for you, please send me the same divorce papers and I will sign them immediately without argument.<P><BR>Your life partner;<P><BR>Jeff<P><BR>*************************************<P>I am not sure that this fits your situation, but if it gives you any ideas, I hope they work........<P>------------------<BR><B>Jeff</B> <I>the old/young one</I><BR>The one from the frozen tundra of Minnesota<p>[This message has been edited by JCDSenior (edited December 11, 2000).]

Dear Jo,<BR>I really dont have to much to say,only I am sorry you are joining us over here.You have had some good advise,especially the idea of looking for the light at the end of the tunnel.i am so sorry your H is so insensitive at this time.<P> Love and Prayers,beth

JCDSenior,<P>That was a very touching letter. I only hope your wife sees it for the love and caring that went into writing it. Your love and dedication is a strength and example to us all.<P>God Bless you and your wife.<P>Mike

Like most others in here, I am divorced now. She divorced me in June after 11 years as part of a pre-midlife crisis effort to revolutionize her life, but she has since returned mostly to the status quo (job and town), minus me. There was no infidelity, only emotional abuse and consequent withdrawal on my part which she perceived as dishonesty. Since she had moved out of the country, I formed a new relationship. Now she's back in town, and has taken an apartment in the closest building to my business address (this was a building that she had scorned in the past). <P>The holidays are going to be tough for me not because I miss her terribly (which I do), but because I have the means to easily revenge myself upon her in ways that would destroy the cohesiveness of her extended family and her place in it, as well as trash her career. A few keystrokes and a postage stamp would be all it would take. The holidays would be the perfect moment for maximum impact. She doesn't realize what cards I hold, or she would be a nervous wreck ... a couple of things she has evidently forgotten about completely, the other piece of information is one she told me, but she doesn't know how I might use it.<P>She owes me money and signatures to transfer assets, including the one I'm driving. So I have held off. And since getting them clears the last obstacle to an action I'm conflicted about, I haven't pushed for them either. If there weren't third parties who probably *should* know the stuff, I doubt I would want to send it, no matter how angry I am. But that is the case, and it's another aspect of the situation I have to deal with. By not releasing at least one of the secrets, there could be consequences to innocents (from a third party, not her). Meanwhile, I also know that she has self-injury in her past, and has spoken of killing herself.<P>I don't think I'll ever have her back. I don't think I'll ever really be happy again without her. She thinks I'm distant but not hostile. I've even babysat the dog. In what must have been a weak moment for both of us we've even cried and hugged. But I have made no effort to reconnect with her, and she probably feels inhibited because she knows I have a relationship, but I won't discuss its nature or depth with her (it probably will go the distance, unless I somehow make a real mess of it--which any number of scenarios involving [or even not involving] the ex [and/or revenge upon her] could cause).<P>On the one hand I want to do the deed. On the other, I want to hold the stuff I have in perpetuity as a kind of nuclear weapon, and on the third hand I want to send it to her as a Christmas present, perhaps letting her know how close she came to destruction, perhaps not.<P>So many people counsel against revenge, and yet it is so attractive, especially when one feels one has been completely dissed, underappreciated, etc. Doing nothing is probably the safest course, and the one with the best outcome ... but patience is so hard.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited December 12, 2000).]

Res:<P>"He was basically clueless when I asked him why he couldn't wait until at least aft the Holidays, said "there's always going to be Holidays" and "no one time is better than another". What is that anyway ... denial, blatant meaness, fog ... WHAT?"<P>My XW told me at one point just before she filed "I want to do this now while times are good". After all the effort to make times good, that seemed a real slap in the face, and an abandonment of logic as well. <P>So is there a right time to tell a spouse you're filing for divorce? I'm not sure there is, unless they're caught in something blatantly unforgiveable right then and there. <BR>

Hey Sisyphus,<P>My H did not tell me he was filing. My neighbor came running up to my car on Wednesday morning and said "Hey, you're in the paper ... your H and you are in the intent for marriage dissolution. So I call my H and he tells me yes, he did file ... I asked him what day and he says on Dec 5th ... I said my BDay ... he says yeah.<P>So ... Mr. Spineless did not have the nerve to call and tell me ... he was going to let it languish and just let me find out somehow.<P>He also sent me a BDay present and card. What the H&ll was that for???? Guilt????<P>Jeeez!<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 12, 2000).]

Sisyphus,<P>Please be careful with revenge - it really has a way of destroying things and people. I too have some "secrets" that could be shared which would no doubt devastate my wife. But, is it right to hurt her just because she hurt me? I have decided it isn't. My love is my love and I won't let her actions "make" me do something that is not in my nature simply to "get back" at her.<P>Sure we all have those thoughts now and again - to get back at our spouses. But I think if we give into the temptations we are only going to end up lesser people for the action.<P>If your "secret" is best told to save someone else pain and suffering, then maybe it is better for you to hold off until you are SURE that it is not out of revenge for your wife, but rather out of compassion for the person it may help.<P>Think hard and long about revenge - it is a nasty thing. It sounds like you still have a lot of anger in your soul for your wife. While it is a natural reaction to be angry and to hate, remember that the anger is yours and yours alone. It will haunt you for as long as you keep it alive. People often forget that forgiveness is not just for those who offend us, it is a way for us to heal ourselves as well.<P>Mike

Resilient:<P>"My neighbor came running up to my car on Wednesday morning and said "Hey, you're in the paper ... your H and you are in the intent for marriage dissolution. So I call my H and he tells me yes, he did file ... I asked him what day and he says on Dec 5th ... I said my BDay ... he says yeah."<P>I don't mean to judge your neighbor without knowing the whole situation, but that seems a bit insensitive ... meanwhile STBXH might have many reasons for not serving the papers and not saying anything ... not all "spineless" or cruel (perhaps he was still conflicted), although the birthday thing bespeaks spite. Still, I'd be annoyed at the neighbor--unless that kind of surprise was exactly what he intended, it would have been nice to learn his intent without having it short-circuited by third parties.<P>SoTired2000:<P>"My love is my love and I won't let her actions "make" me do something that is not in my nature simply to "get back" at her."<P>I guess I am discovering the fine line between love and hate. Perhaps I can console myself that when and if the evil that my revenge might head off does come to pass, the ex will be wracked with such guilt that anything I could do now will seem piddling by comparison--and while she holds her secret I already know that the threat the evil poses toward the innocents gnaws at her. And she hates her career so I might as well not break those chains for her either. <P>While my revenge might be distressing to her in the short term, the benefits could well outweigh the detriments. This stuff has long had a way of making my head swim.<P>