Hey Gang,<P>Just an update from the old Zipmeister. Well, Val called me this afternoon to tell me she got the final decree. She wondered if I checked the mail yet.<P>She started crying and it broke my heart. Said she never thought we would ever D. Asked if it was ok if she still called me. Said I should call over there too, Brian wouldn't mind. [She moved in with him about 6-7 weeks ago]. I don't see myself calling that number. This phone must have called it many times in the past.<P>She didn't sound very happy and her sister tells me that she has been very quiet lately. I kind of adopted her cats [sisters] and Stef calls to see how they are doing. She volunteers information, I don't ask or usually respond to it.<P>I had to go because our patient was ready. Val told me she still loves me and started crying again. I hate hearing her cry, never meant to hurt her.<P>I'm not looking for sympathy. Just letting my buds know what is going on. It has been 22 months from d day and Dr. H's plan A/B has worked pretty well for me.<P>I am a survivor. The M didn't make it, but, I did.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

Hey Tim,<P>Long time, no hear! Yeah, it's rough, but life goes on.<P>Ya' know, my wife called a few weeks ago. She was bawling like a baby because she thought the girls didn't love her and such (DUH!) The do but they don't like her. Anyway, it didn't bother me she was bawling. Perhaps it will do her some good.<P>Once things are over with the marriage is when you get a chance to look back in Rretrospect over what happened.<P>The WS has the months/years of emotionally leaving the marriage before actually leaving it. When they do, we get the big dump and say "I never knew we had any problems!"<P>Now that we have had the time to adjust without them, a divorce is not such a big deal. They get the chance to look back and mull over what happened.<P>Seems as if Plan A/B worked as advertised. Didn't save the marriage, but you came out of it without being an emotional wreck.<P>Live & learn Tim.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hey Zippy,<P>I'm sorry. For a while there your posts sounded quite positive. It still sounds as tho she's not quite sure, doesn't it.<BR>Would you, or have you, left the door open a smidge??<BR>Just wondering, coz I'm trying to slam mine shut, but something keeps getting in the way.<P>I will email you soon, and have a big long chat. We need to talk about some things, some 'housey' things. Like, can you PLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE put the toilet seat down!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>I will think of you tonight, and Val too. What a mess they make....<P>take care of you<P>Jo

Hi Tim...<P>Just to let you know...<BR>...for me it will be anytime now in the next 2 months (judge's gavel that is).<P>We're survivors...<BR>...and really better for it!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

It amazes me how so many people go on about how the WS had years to mull over the end of the marriage, then the WS springs the news on the unsuspecting spouse, and merrily goes on his/her way. When the WS shows remorse as in crying, etc...the ex sees this as they are having regrets.<P>If you have been married a long time, unless you are completely heartless, of course, you are going to be sad. A failed marriage is just that...something that failed...both people are responsible for the end. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but over and over I hear every possible excuse known to man kind what the WS is thinking if they are crying or they call, etc.<P>I perpetuated the divorce in my 16 year marriage. I know first hand that I gave it everything I had and then some. I communicated my concerns, my unhappiness, my dissatisfaction to my H. I tried everything, but tie him to the chair and scream my distress at him through a bull horn. Yet, when he found out about an EA I had, he claimed he didn't know I was unhappy. <P>Before, someone jumps on me about the EA...I have fully admitted my wrong doing there...it never went further than a few emails...and contact stopped immediately after discovery. The marriage still wasn't working. Things progressively got worse and worse. The marriage was over. Yes, I have cried buckets over this divorce. Yes, I wish more than anything the marriage could have worked. It is difficult to dismiss a person who I had two children with, who I have been with my entire adult life, but I can't live with him anymore. It is very difficult when you have been married for a long period of time not to fall into comfortable patterns of behavior with each other. That doesn't mean that a reconciliation is in the works. It just takes time for both parties to learn to adjust as separate, single individuals...I think that is why so many relationships fail when either party gets involved too quickly after a divorce. No matter who perpetuated the split, you both need time.<BR>It takes time to go from a "we" to a "me."<BR>

Loneysoul,<P>I can not speak for your marriage, but my H DID NOT tell me anything was wrong. Even after he left, when I asked him why he was thinking of undertaking a major building project 6 months before the affair started, he admitted that at that time he had no plans to leave. Approximately 14 hours before he announced he wanted a divorce, we called a realtor to make an offer on a house. <P>He told me and the therapist that he tried to hide his feelings. He has never claimed that he made any attempt whatsoever to address any problems. <P>Chris said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now that we have had the time to adjust without them, a divorce is not such a big deal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Divorce IS a big deal. I do not feel any differently about it today than I did two years ago. I love my H just as much today as I did then. The children are more unhappy about it today as they were when he left, because when he first left he saw them often.

Nellie1:<P>I agree divorce is a big deal. It is probably one of the most traumatic experiences we will ever go through. But, I realize to some, it is't a big deal. If there are kids involved, it is a big deal no matter how you cut it.<P>I am sure that there are situations when the betrayed spouse didn't see things coming. I have no doubt your H blindsided you with his news. My point is that often times, when you are married a long time there are ups and downs in the marriage. A hint...a sign can easily be overlooked. Sometimes. <P>No offense to the guys out there, but I think men are probably not as intuned to the suttle hints women will give them when they are not happy. I think with most men you have to get in their face and tell them point blank that you are unhappy and do it right there and then when you are feeling it. Most women don't do that...we have a tendency to leave little hints that usually go right over our H's head.<P>I can only speak for myself and what my perceptions was.<P>

Monsieur Le Zip,<P>Your post made me hurt a little for you. You know that sometimes when folks really got to see what's on the other side of the fence, forsaking everything they have on this side, they lock the gate and can't get back in. That hurts like hell. Then they realize that the door doesn't really swing both ways. That hurts even worse.<P>Whatever happens, I hope that you remain friends with her. She was a big part of your life for a long time, and I am sure there are plenty of good memories to relfect upon. And now she understands what she did to throw them all away. You can forgive, even if there is too much water under the bridge to ever be with her again.<P>Well, anyways, cheer up, Monsieur Le Zip!!

So sorry it came to this. So glad, however, that you are among the survivors!<P>I would guess Val's tears have several meanings. She is probably sorry, on some level, that the marriage is over. She is probably glad, on some level, that the marriage is over. She is probably sorry she did what she did. She is probably sorry she caused you pain. <P>Tears of joy and sorrow? Well, maybe joy is the wrong word. Does the meaning of her tears matter terribly.<P>For me the actual obtaining of the divorce was anticlimactic. It was the betrayal and the pain that preceeded it that was the bigger deal. I feel like divorce is abhored by God but it isn't the legal process He abhores so much. It is the violation of the marriage covenant.<P>Would that mine had never happened. But I am happier with my life without him than I was with him - I think. I had no clue how he treated me until he left. And for the cessation of that I shall ever be grateful.<P><BR>Anyway, congratulations on your survival. Not on the divorce. <P>((((((((((Zippy))))))))_<P>

Hey Medic,<BR>I haven't been posting here in a very long time. I just started dropping back in to see how things are for everyone. Well, not too good I see. I am sorry to hear that this has happened to you. I was so hoping that you would be one of the lucky ones to work things out. <P>------------------<BR>God Bless you and yours,<P><BR>Sheryl W.<P><BR>www.widesmiles.org/gallery/britanie

Hey Sandman, thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here. If the D has given you peace my friend then I'm over-joyed for you. After this weekend I wish I knew of some way of fast forwarding to the day myself.<P>I agree with some that tears and those emotions can be mixed signals, perhaps regret, sadness, perhaps being lonely. Perhaps it's just relief, whatever the reason...doesn't really matter.<P>I hope you stick around here bud. It's my turn on the ferris wheel and I'm riding, ready or not. <P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

{{{{{{TIM}}}}}}}<P>You hung in there for a LONG time! Your dedication is something I admire. <P>I have been divorced almost 4 months now. My ex still tells me (and our kids) that he loves me. It kind of hurts doesn't it? To have gone thru ALL of this pain and then when its all over, you hear that tiny little part of the old person you once loved. <P>I found that when I was where you are today, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I wasn't ecstatic about divorce, I just finally excepted it and started looking at the relationship a little differently than I had before. I still have good days and bad days, but less and less of the bad ones.<P>The roller coaster isn't quite over yet. I hope you'll stick around and keep posting.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Hey Medic, I consider you one of the originals; I started posting in April 2000 and always enjoyed your humor and insight. I haven't posted since the end of October, as my divorce was final on 10/4/00 (no excuses here).<BR> I feel fortunate now to have gotten from point A to point B (datewise, that would be March 19, 2000-October 4, 2000) in a short time-span, let alone coming out of it with residential custody of my two daughters and child support from the ex-W. I hate to see anyone have it dragged it for so long due to remorseful/guilty feelings from the WS, court technicalities, etc., but the big D is at least some sort of closure, no matter what sort of timeline it takes to arrive at it.<BR> Good luck and I'm sure the best is yet to come (that's what I keep hearing anyway ).<P>take care,<BR>theo<P>

<B>Medic,</B><P>Hi. Just wanted to pop in and offer...<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Medic}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>You have done well and you know how proud I am off you. Time to move forward. You have survived for sure. Now it's your time to thrive.<P>Love ya sugar,<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited January 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>I am sure that there are situations when the betrayed spouse didn't see things coming. I have no doubt your H blindsided you with his news. My point is that often times, when you are married a long time there are ups and downs in the marriage. A hint...a sign can easily be overlooked. Sometimes. <P>No offense to the guys out there, but I think men are probably not as intuned to the suttle hints women will give them when they are not happy. I think with most men you have to get in their face and tell them point blank that you are unhappy and do it right there and then when you are feeling it. Most women don't do that...we have a tendency to leave little hints that usually go right over our H's head.<P>I can only speak for myself and what my perceptions was.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I too can only speak for myself, but I would agree that subtle hints didn't work well for me. Oh, I knew my wife was unhappy, but I didn't know what she was unhappy <I>about</I>. In truth, I don't believe she knew herself, and that perhaps was why she didn't communicate it. I would <I>beg</I> her to tell me what I could do, what behavior I could change, and she couldn't answer.<P>Those "little hints" don't necessarily go over our heads. They may conflict with other "little hints", leaving us with a paralyzing "damned if I do and damned if I don't" impression. Or those "hints" may be so vague that we really don't know what to do with them.<P>I guess what I'm saying is, find some way to speak directly. It's incumbent on <I>you</I> to figure out what you <I>really</I> need or want, and to ask for it. Don't expect your spouse to be able to figure it out, if you can't figure it out yourself.<P>And, LonelySoul, please don't take these comments as directed toward you specifically. I don't know your situation. I am really just trying to give a bit of advice to anyone listening who might still have the opportunity to make use of it.<BR>

No offense taken. You are right...I think in the beginning I wasn't sure what I was unhappy about...I knew, but I did't know how to verbalize it. I also reasoned that all marriages had their ups and downs and after 15 years I didn't expect to be happy all the time. But as time went on I became much more intuned to other couples...I observed, I listened, I knew I was miserable. I was never happy. I felt lonely and sad. I did finally come right out and say what I was unhappy about, what I wanted...but by then my spouse figured I was just in one of those moods again. He told me I should take anti-D's for my depression. I didn't need medication; I needed my husband to be a part of my life. He ignored it. <P>I got involved in an EA which certainly didn't help matters. Discovery happened one year ago today. It was a horrible night I will never forget. My H knew then I hadn't been in one of my moods when I said I was unhappy. After a weekend of sheer lunacy, he agreed to listen, but by then it was too late and I did't believe he would change.<BR> <BR>Sorry for the long vent. It has been a very hard year and I'm having a bit of trouble today.

Hey Tim,<P>I guess a welcome(?) is in order here. Anywho, I'm glad to hear your are doing well!<P>Bob