Where do I start?<P>I think you're all going to be shocked, and very disappointed in me.<P>I found out today that ex-h's new girlfriend is someone I worked with 10 years ago. A very voluptuous, chesty, loudmouthed, rough around the edges type of girl.<P>His comment about her 10 years ago was "god, she just oozes sex appeal, but she's a bit sl***ty". (I've never forgotten that comment) I got on with her ok at work, but was never friends with her. She used to make us laugh because she was so 'over the top'.<P>I cannot stand the thought of her with my children. This type of woman is the type that we always said we never wanted our children to be friends with their children because they were so different from us....<BR>different attitudes, different morals, different everything. And now he is with someone exactly like that, someone who is having so much to do with my children.<P>Well, I'm ashamed to say that everything I have read, learnt, and been through amounts to nothing. Went straight out the window.<P>I went BALLISTIC.......screamed, shouted, even smacked him in the face. HARD. About 3 times. I'm not proud of myself.<P>I called her all the names under the sun, and told him that he'd realise what she is, and she would realise what he is. I told him that this was worse than the initial affair, I know why that happened and have forgiven that. But this is just another "let's rub your face in it Jo". I told him he had no guts, and was the lowest of the low. He said that she had changed in 10 years, so he obviously knew what I meant. He said to me that this attitude from me would happen no matter who he went with. I told him it wouldn't happen if he had someone decent. He told me to get out of his house.<P>I can't believe I said what I said and did what I did.<P>Now to why I did it. Why did I behave that way?<P>1. honesty issues again, why couldn;t he have told me himself, instead of me having to find out from a third party.<P>2. jealousy, because she obviously still oozes sex appeal, and my sex appeal quota wouldn't attract an ant at the moment!<P>3. this was someone I knew. How could he?<P>4. jealous<P>5. jealous<P>6. jealous<P>I have since talked to my s, and sil, and both have helped me put it in perspective. Even if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. My sister said that at least she treats my children nice, and it's better the devil you know....<P>Yep, I get all that, but where is the honesty. Oh I keep forgetting, he's the product of 'living by the affair' and he has forgotten honesty. What it means, even what it is. Although as my sister said, he's scared to tell me anything because he knows how I'm going to react. And stupid me, I just played straight into that one again. Yep, I reacted big time.<P>He will never speak to me again. He told me to get out of his house. I did try to ring to apologise for hitting him, he said he didn't want to speak to me and hung up. Well, I sort of expected that. I deserved it.<P>It seems every time we are getting on great, another curve ball comes from somewhere and knocks me in the stomach. I'm sick to the back teeth of it.<P>I was doing so well. Now I feel like dirt again, worth absolutely nothing. Why does he still keep making me feel this way?<BR>Do I still love him, and want him back?<BR>Or is it just my ego?<P>I don't think it's my ego as I had planned this year with no partners, bf's etc and I was so comfortable with that.<P>Why does this always happen just when things are starting to go ok. When we can have a chat, have a laugh, be friends again.<P>this is just too much. I almost hope he does never speak to me again. would make it so much easier.<P>What was my post the other day, something like "I'll feel this good until he does or says something to upset me"...........<P>How do I fix this? Or do I even bother? I'm tired of being roped in by proxy in his sordid little life. (by way of my children)<P>My only concern throughout all this mess has been my two girls. He refuses to see that. Just says that i'm being difficult and not accepting his life.<P>Is he right?

Well Jo,<P>I'm not shocked or disappointed in you. I can understand you being upset. Hitting him was probably over the line, though. It sounds like something in you just "snapped". It happens sometimes.<P>I'm sure you were shocked to find out he was involved with her after his previous comments about her and you feelings about her as a person. I understand your concern for your kids being around someone ou do not approve of too.<P>I sure wish I had some advice on how to handle this. If it were me, I'd probably initiate a complete plan B. <P>I know how much this must have hurt you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hi c00ker,<P>my thoughts exactly. Plan B.<P>This is just way too much. To now be with someone I knew and worked with just takes it to the limit.<P>I spoke to someone today who had also worked with her 10 years ago, and interviewed her for another job (with the big red rat!!) and their response was "no way". She tossed her hair, laughed too loud, battered her eyelashes etc etc etc....... It's all "Me me me" with her.<P>I guess my only option is now to back completly away and leave him to it. Leave him to her. she was always selfish and needed to be the center of attention....<P>Great, he doesn't have the time for that. Or the money!!<P>I'm still so angry at finding out this way. My issue is not with her as such, but that he still can't find it in himself to be honest with me.<P>thanks for caring about me. I'll get through this one too.........<P>Hope you're well and big hugs for you<P>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>my thoughts exactly. Plan B.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, bonnet, I'm going to be *tough* on you now (but not *too tough* I hope). His reason for not telling you is explained perfectly by the reaction he got when you found out.<P>It doesn't mean that you're wrong for thinking he's a complete jerk, moron, loser, weasel, snake (BTW, Happy Chinese New Year, it's the year of the snake!), bum, etc. What it does mean is that you have a problem controlling the impulse to an angry outburst, at least in your love life. If you could only apply some of the professionalism you have in the air to your personal life, you would be all set.<P>This weakness did not serve you well in marriage (it built resistance in him toward telling you the truth), and it will not serve you well should you ever get back in the dating pool. Nor does it teach the right things to your children. <P>((((bonnet))) I have no idea how shrinks help you fix this, but fix it you must.<P>What's done is done. But make amends if you can. If you can bring yourself to write a sincere and detailed letter of apology, I think it would go a long way toward helping you come to grips with this, and it would do a lot for your relationship with him. I'm not talking about the two of you getting back together. What I'm talking about is working with each other for the children's sake. <P>((((bonnet)))) I know this isn't easy at all.

thanks Sisyphus.<P>I didn't think I had an anger management problem. Maybe I do.<P>I do know what I did was so wrong. I didn't hit him during our marriage, nor he me - never. But maybe the way I did react to things during our marriage did push him away. He was never good at telling the truth, even about the stupid little things. It used to drive me 'insane'. And it's this that now seems to push my buttons. To me its a respect thing. If he respected me, he would be honest with me.<BR>And yes, if I respected him, I would never have done what I did yesterday.<P>I think what set me off was the following. Please bear in mind that when I saw him yesterday I had no intention of bringing her up. I had found out her surname but it could have been a *coincidence*....<BR>He asked me in for a cup of tea. We chatted. I asked if he was going to a bbq at some friends yesterday (Fri). I would have asked him to pass something along to the wife if he was. He said no, that's tomorrow (Sat). Have you been invited? I said no. He "laughed", and said he was a little uncomfortable about that - that I hadn't been invited. These are my friends from 20 years ago, even before I knew him. Yep, he was so uncomfortable he laughed. It was his laughing at me that upset me. Or what I perceived to be his laughing at me. So I asked him what her surname was, and when he told me what it was, I asked if it was the same girl I knew 10 years ago. And it went from there. When I read this back to myself, I think "what the heck does one have to do with the other.?" BBQ - to her. No connection at all, other than she was going. WHY did I question him. I know that any question is a lb. I was doing so well.<P>I have tried so hard to be understanding through all this. To be his friend. To give, without wanting anything in return. And this is how he helps me deal with all this.<P>To me, it honestly seems that no matter how much I give, how much I try to remain friends, he does something (dishonest and deceitful) to hurt me even further. Yes, I feel that him not telling me who she is is dishonest. There was a far better way for him to handle this. If he is so sure that this new path is the right path for him, he would have told me. Why wouldn't he have just said "jo, I'm dating *****, there's no discussion about the subject, that's the way it is.."<P>Do you agree that he should have told me he was dating this girl.? Someone that I knew. This industry is so small over here, and we both (she and I) know so many people within it. I've probably run into or seen people that have known about this before me.<P>The have been together quite some time - I have tried not to ask questions about her so I didn't even know her surname. Didn't want to lb. What a joke that has turned out to be, on me. I only knew that she was 33, never married, (was engaged longterm) and no children. That's it. No more. I tried to respect the fact that he was free to date who he likes. And I STILL believe that. But I do believe he should have told me this.<P>I can remember the day he gave me those details. He must have been laughing so hard at me. No "well, Jo, you actually know her". No honour or honesty about the situation, or about him.<P>However, I still feel sick at what I have done. And to have done it in front of the children. I am horrified at myself.<BR>Both the girls said to my sister tonight that they had never seen mummy so mad. But that does not excuse the fact they saw mummy slap daddy across the face. And this is all 3 days before my d starts school - something we were all so looking forward to.<P>I guess it just feels like the initial betrayal all over again. <P>Would you help me costruct the letter? I will give things a couple of days to hopefully settle a little, for both of us and then start trying to write it.<P>My mind is swirling, like at the beginning of this whole mess almost 2 years ago. For 2 years now, he has kicked me when I've been down, and every time I start getting back on track something happens to knock me down again.<P>It must be me. It can't be him, he is free to do what he likes. However he chooses to do it. This situation is never going to get better for me unless I find a way around it.<BR>I would love to know how he would react if I started dating a tattood, bald, bike-riding surfie......<BR>That's about the equivalent in the unsuitability stakes. Where the children are concerned.<P>Sisyphus - I feel sick. At myself. What have I done?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>I would love to know how he would react if I started dating a tattood, bald, bike-riding surfie......<P>That's about the equivalent in the unsuitability stakes. Where the children are concerned.<P>Sisyphus - I feel sick. At myself. What have I done? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I honestly can't blame him for not telling you. And believe it or not, part of what he did was likely out of concern for its effect on <I>you</I>. If I omitted to tell my XW something to keep her from being upset, it wasn't because I couldn't stand her anger ... I just didn't want <I>her</I> to go through it when I felt it wasn't necessary. I'm a big boy, and I can take the heat ... but giving off the heat wasn't good for her health. Believe me, by the time she did find out some things they were non-issues except for the fact that I handn't told her, but of course that nonetheless was highly destructive (I'm talking here about things like a $25 campaign contribution to John McCain, or having my [one person] business loan us $1,000 short-term so that we could do something we wanted to do comfortably).<P>If that was who you were wanting to be with, what would it matter what he thought? And we've got guys like that over here who are multimillionaire internet honchos (year before last they were multibillionaires, but you get my drift). <P>The person's heart is the key. And you don't know what hers is like now. <P>I'm really, really sorry the kids saw that. <P>(((((bonnet)))) This is a wake-up call. You've heard it. You don't need to beat yourself up about it. Just realize that it's something that you are going to have to start trying to fix. By various means, because it's not likely that the first thing you try will turn the trick. <P>We'll all be around to help you with that letter. I know it's going to be a toughie.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 26, 2001).]

Hi, my friend....got your message.<P>My, my, my, you did have a big day, didn't you? I can almost relate. When Robert first met PT, she and something she said came up in his conversation about the day.."little piece of trash" was the word he used to describe her and her behavior. Can you imagine how I felt almost a year later when I found out who he was leaving me for????????? By then she was "a little rough around the edges, with potential...it wasn't her fault"!<P>I'm with Sisyphus on this one and I think the letter is a wonderful idea. Not so sure about the Plan B thing. I'll be honest with you, with kids, I've never been convinced that it's great, but that's a personal decision. Kristin's biological father and I are on very good terms since our divorce...we felt it was important for her to see that we could remain close. He just mentioned while he was here for Christmas that his other friends are amazed that the three of us (me, him and Robert) can be close friends. it's been good for Kristin, too. course it doesn't hurt that we only see him a couple of times a year!! LOL<P>But...if you can't hold on to yourself, you may need that. Quite honestly, Honey, you may be expecting too much. He doesn't HAVE to tell you anything, or be honest with you. Even with the good stuff, you're not at that point yet. Maybe your reaction wouldn't be so severe if you weren't expecting too much.<P>As far as what's best for your kids, well, she's not an ax-murderer. If his influence is acceptable (not that it totally is) after all that he's done, someone who at least treats them decently is not all that bad a deal. They'll get what they need from you, don't you worry about that. A little "different" exposure now and again isn't gonna make them morally bankrupt! <P>It's jealousy, you know. A natural emotion, but somewhat counter-productive and pretty unhealthy. <P>All in all, don't beat yourself up anymore. Look at all that you've done right all this time. You had a bad moment. Not great, but doesn't brand you as a monster. Do what's right to set things as right as possible for the moment and then take some good looks at the possible root of the behavior. Once you're honest about that, bet it won't happen again. We all screw up here and there. It'll be ok. You know I have faith in you. You just had a bad time.<P>You know where I am if you need me, dear friend.<P>Luv ya!'<P>Lori<P>

Bonnet:<P>Boy can I relate! My stbx is involved with OW still, is buying our house, and is planning on living there with her once I move out. This from the man who refused to allow my brother and his live-in of 3 years to spend the night at our house in the same bedroom because they weren't married and it would send the wrong message to our kids.<P>I absolutely HATE her...some of it is the complete contempt and disrespect she has shown me in her efforts to "steal him" from me, a lot is jealousy because I still have strong feelings for my stbx despite his dumping me, and lastly it completely grates on me to have her have influence on my children as they play "family" in my old house, with my ex-husband (I can hear the country music starting now...).<P>I have had my moments of calling it like it is with my stbx as well - and calling her what she is. What I have learned (and why I just bite my tongue now - sometimes so hard I'm sure it will bleed), is that much of what stbx does is play "reverse psychology" games with me in an effort to show me that I can't control him any longer. So, if I disapprove of Nurse Ratchet, or cause any scenes...he will stay with her out of spite. In effect, I will contribute to my own misery when it comes to her. <P>I would like to say I'm ready to take the really high road and even say a fake but friendly hello to the both of them if I see them together...but I'm not there. I have decided to deal with her by pretending she doesn't exist - my home is a "Nurse Ratchet Free Zone" where neither I or my kids have to deal with her existence. If I see her around town, I completely ignore her...look right through her even. If they are all together with my kids, I say hello to my ex, hug my kids and walk away. If that rubs her wrong...all the better. It's not really Plan B...I call it Plan I (for Ignore)...and it helps my sanity. <P>I keep hoping they'll break up...I can deal with stbx dating an innocent party...even be friendly to that person...just not the OW! - ugh.<P>I feel for you Bonnet! Jealousy is a wildly horrible emotion that can send the most rational person over the top at times.<P>((((((Bonnet))))))))<P>Lisa

Dont worry I have done exactly the same thing. Every now and again it just all builds up and we forget and let it all go and take it out on our partners.<P>Isnt it funny how both of our partners have gone for someone we would never have mixed with socially because they dont have the same values as us. My H wont introduce D to OW because I have asked or is it because he doesnt care that muc for OW<P>Dont be ashamed of your anger, I am glad I am not the only one to have a go sometimes. <P>Take care and have a big hug

{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}<P>It is understandable how you reacted. But you have to look at it realistically. He is not going to ask your permission on whom he may date. And no matter what you say or do, he will continue to date/live with who ever he wants too.<P>I went through the same thing when my x first moved out and was living with om and I was driving myself crazy. My minister pointed out that there was nothing I could do about it, and there wasn't. He also pointed out that the kids deep down know this isn't right and will see the confusion/disfunction in the ws life. They will see the how we, the BS, lives our life and that is how we impact their life.<P>Our ranting and raving probably has more of an effect on the kids than the WS lifestyle unless it is abusive. IT keeps the kids unsettled, and unsure of themselves.<P>I know it isn't easy and I would suggest Plan B also.<P>A friend of mine said her x is always picking up their kids with a different girlfriend and often leaves them with them. My friend isn't happy about it but the kids have adapted to it. She said it is actually funny in that a lot of times the woman are young and end up taking the girls shopping and buying them up to date clothes, makeup, something their father would never do.<P>I too asked my x how she would feel if I had a drugged up stripper move in with me. She reponded maybe I should. How's that for a parental advice????<P>Also watch those remarks about bald guys!!!

Just a little add on. I have now started grief and anger counselling and it is really really helpful. They make you understand things why you feel this way.<P>It really is in your subconscious and they help to bring it out, so that you can understand your feelings.<P>He** I thought I was going crazy because I couldnt handle the anger and grief. It is just part of the process.<P>Email me if you want more info<P>rosem66@xtra.co.nz

Bob said, <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He also pointed out that the kids deep down know this isn't right and will see the confusion/disfunction in the ws life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This does not mesh with what I have seen. Kids do not know what is right and wrong by some sort of instinct. They see a person going through their life apparently happily bouncing from sl** to sl**, and that's what they learn is ok.<P>I disagree with those who said he has no responsibility to tell you whom he dates. Maybe that would be true if the person never met your kids, but he does not have the right to hide the fact that the kids are being exposed to someone he knows you would not approve of. He does not have the right to hide any information that relates to the kids that he has reason to believe you would find relevant. Period.<P>One of the major problems with affairs/divorce is that one day you are working as a team to parent; you share a similar value system and child rearing philosophy. The next day your spouse is dead, and replaced by someone who has a completely different value system, but who still not only has the right to do pretty much whatever he wants with the kids while they are in his care, but know does not even feel any responsibility to tell you about it. And not only that, but you are forced to allow someone whom you have never met, or worse yet, have met and know is a bad influence, to spend time with your children. There is no other situation comparable to this. If you think someone in your child's school is a bad influence, you can put them in a different school. If your uncle is a bad influence, you can not let the kids spend time with him.<P>Most people do not have a problem with people putting their kids in religious schools to attempt to limit bad influences on them. I have a friend who is Unitarian who has enrolled her child in a Catholic school. It is not only ok for parents to limit their children's exposure to negative influences - it is their responsibility. Negative influences are NOT broadening - they are simply negative. My son is NOT better off for having been exposed to the OW's children who are allowed/encouraged to spend much of their time alone in their rooms watching tv and playing who knows what on their computers. They are not better off to have learned at a tender age what adultery is, much less to have seen their father living with another woman a matter of weeks after he left us. My son is NOT better off for having experienced the suicide of a classmate - if I could have done anything to have shielded him from it, I would have. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited January 26, 2001).]

Hi Nellie,<P>thank you so much for that. That is exactly what I mean, and have been trying to say.<BR>You said it perfectly when you said if he wasn't introducing the children to her, it is NONE of my business. But when my children are involved, of course it is my business.<P>That just about hits the nail on the head for me.<P>Thank you for making me feel ok about how I feel about all this.<P>hugs to you<BR>Jo<P>ps I'm also sorry your son had/has to go through all this. I wonder if they (WS) would do it all again with the benefit of hindsight??

.<p>[This message has been edited by Trying to move on (edited March 26, 2001).]

Bonnet:<P>I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with such a horrible situation. I can understand why you were so angry!! It is unfortunate that you lost control in front of the kids but you are only human and need to forgive yourself for that. <P>You have received a lot of helpful advice on this so I don't really have anything to add other than possibly, if you haven't already, explaining to the kids exactly what happened the other night. Not the details as to why you were so mad but just talk to them about anger. That it is ok to feel angry at times but it is not ok to act out irrationally because of the anger. That this is an area you need to work on and apologize for what happened. Again, you have probably already done this, but if not, I think it is important. I think anger/grief counseling is a good idea. I am working on this as well.<P>I lost it when my x admitted that the girl he left me for was under 25. He is 39 and I am 37. I just ran out of the room in sobs and called him all kinds of things. Luckily, my kids were not around. But, I was devasted with the news so I can certainly relate to why you lost control. For me, I know that my reaction is based on the underlying hurt caused by his rejection of me. I am starting to finally come to terms with that and know that I am lovable even though my x doesn't love me anymore. It still hurts to think about that but not as much as before.<P>I would stop asking the questions because you are not ready to hear the answers. Hopefully, your x will not hurt your children with the decisions he makes but there is nothing you can really do to stop his actions. That powerlessness over him is one of the hardest things you will have to accept. All you can do is make sure you do the best you can with your children when you are with them. And, if you are religious, pray, pray, pray for help and that God will watch over and protect you and your children each and every day.

I'm sorry to hear that. Don't be too hard on yourself, though. You are dealing with the pain of the divorce and now something new: her. Personally, though, if it were someone else, I imagine you might have reacted strongly too, though maybe toned down a bit. I let my ex know what I thought of him when I found out he was moving to be with the 18 year old he had an EA with during our marriage and spearation. I asked him how he could sleep at night, that he was a __, that she was a child and he was crazy, etc etc. It backfired, too. Now he won't return my calls or letters (probably because he knows what I said is true and the truth hurts). I am more convinced than ever that deep down he has some serious guilt, and knowing that it hurt me that much is too much for him to take. So he avoids me. Maybe that is true for him too.