H,<P>first of all, can I say how very sorry I am. Deeply sorry. There was no way that my behaviour was warranted, or called for. You do not deserve that from me.<P>I am disgusted with myself for my actions. And for my actions in front of our children.<P>As far as J**** goes, I am sorry for what I said. I did not dislike her when I knew her so long ago, and I don't dislike her now. I don't know her now. She also did not deserve what I said. The girls like her, and that should be my only concern. You did not need to hear my private thoughts on the matter. Again, I'm so sorry.<P>I have taken a good hard look at myself, and decided that I don't like myself very much. I obviously have some issues that I need to deal with, and deal with them I will.<P>I hope that one day you will forgive me.<P>How does something like that sound.<BR>I admit it's the first draft, and it's the first thing off my head this morning. After a very fitful, almost sleepless night. I still can't believe I reacted so stupidly. You're all right, he DOES NOT have to tell me what he is doing, or with whom. I think, with hindsight, maybe I HAVE been trying to control him, and using the most disgusting method to do that. By using the children. But I honestly didn't think I was. Why did someone not get that lump of wood and hit me!!!!!!!!! Someone wrote she's not an axe murderer - that's so true. The girls like her, she's nice to them. That should be my ONLY concern. Nothing else about the situation is my concern.<P>Thank you all so much for your support. And for helping me try to fix what I have stupidly done. <P>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>I have taken a good hard look at myself, and decided that I don't like myself very much.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My key edits:<P>I have taken a good hard look at myself, and decided that I don't want to lose control that way, especially in front of the children.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You did not need to hear my private thoughts on the matter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You did not need to hear my unthinking initial reaction on the matter.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't like myself very much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is something that should not be true, and that is also an issue for you to work on. But he needn't hear it.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 26, 2001).]

Hi Sisyphus,<P>you're still here for me. Thank you.<BR>I will re-type that, thanks. It's a better way of saying it.<P>I do like myself, but I'm very ashamed of myself at the moment. Ashamed and disgusted. He did not deserve that attack.<P>I think I'm basically ok, I don't hate the essential me.<P>thank you so much for helping me with this. I appreciate it so much.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>I do like myself, but I'm very ashamed of myself at the moment. Ashamed and disgusted. He did not deserve that attack.<P>I think I'm basically ok, I don't hate the essential me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You *love* yourself. That's the more important of the two. But would you *like* someone who did the stuff you did? -- if not, it means there's some cleanup work to do. Relax. It can be done.<P>

I would keep it short and sweet:<P>I apologize for my actions. Nothing like that will ever happen again."<P>You don't want to give him any more ammunition to use against you.<P>And then avoid him as much as possible. You need to be civil because of your children but you and he should not be having any conversations about your personal lives unless it pertains to your children

Oooooookay,<P>I don't *like* myself. And no, I wouldn't *like* anyone doing that to me. You're right.<P>I certainly have more issues to clean up than what I thought I had.<P>I seem to tie everything in to the honesty issue. Everything. Rational or not.<BR>I'm so sick of the lies. Even 2 years down the track. Someone wrote of expectations. They were right. If I don't expect anything from him, including honesty, this won't happen again.<P>You know, he had so many opportunities to say that this was someone I knew.<P>He has expectations of me. That I be friendly, respectful and civil, paint him in a good light to the children, let him get on with his life, give him no conflict......<P>What I sometimes wonder is when does a bit of that come my way? I did have a relationship with a guy for a while, and he said to me that my relationship with *R* was more damaging to the children than his relationship with *J*. We were not living together, and I wouldn't let him spend *family* time with the girls as I didn't want them to be confused. But he know expects me to do exactly that.<P>What does that mean?. My relationship wasn't ok, but his is?

I am curious where does he get off having expectations of you? I mean you two are divorced there are no more expectations for either of you. The only tie between you is your children. Both of you need to thinking of doing what's best for them.<P> You are expecting a liar and a cheat to be honest with you and treat you civilly? Expect nothing from him and you will not be disappointed. Treat as you would one of your customers. Polite but detached. <P> <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TMD:<BR><B>I mean you two are divorced there are no more expectations for either of you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Some author's very trenchant observation was that people divorce each other over certain disagreements, then continue those disagreements as ex-spouses. Huh? Well, that's what people do. Especially where children mean that contact is inevitable.<P>So folks (on soapbox here, but not for bonnet, who already knows ), if you haven't learned conflict resolution skills before, start learning them now. And learn to let go a little, too.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>You know, he had so many opportunities to say that this was someone I knew.<P>What does that mean?. My relationship wasn't ok, but his is?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have many, many opportunities to crash my car into things. But I know it would hurt, so I don't try it. Sure, he could have dropped a note; but unfortunately men don't think that way, nor are they necessarily aware when and how they are applying double standards. <P>

Bonnet,<P>I am always very careful about what I put in writing to my x. Be careful. I would tend to agree with TMD, keep it short and simple.<P>As far as your rage goes, it sounds deeper than jealousy, and more like a tigress defending her cubs.<P>I understand the feelings of jealousy and indignation, finding that a spouse can destroy a marriage for a tart. Believe me - I was aghast at my husband's choice, and I did things I was not proud of. But I have the luxury of time on my side, to lessen the raw emotion, my self-doubts and insecurities, so I can be more objective about my actions. <P>Don't let your apology for a violent reaction cloud the fact, that your husband is providing an inappropriate role model for developing young girls. In a way, its worse if they like her - they will try to emulate the excitement and sexiness they see their father desire. He may find her "over the edge" behavior exciting in a girlfriend, but I don't think he'll be so pleased seeing it in a teenage daughter...<P>Forgive yourself a bit for the outburst, perhaps a private slap upside your husband's head while telling him to grow up was a more appropriate reaction to his new girlfriend, but don't doubt that he is out of line here too.<P>And, I expect deep down, he knows his choice in girlfriends right now is innapropriate, or he probably would have mentioned to you that he was seeing an acquaintance. If not for you, then out of respect for her - not for approval, but as a courtesy, so that a chance meeting would not prove awkward.<P>I have informed my x of many things that were none of his business - not for his approval, but so he would not be surprised by things, or hurt hearing things that were not his business, but affected his children. <P>His first responsibility is to your children, not to his sexlife, or his funtimes. I have this mental picture of Belle, from Gone with the Wind. I would always be kind, friendly and polite but, I don't care how good a heart she has, I wouldn't want her as an influence on my budding young girls during such critical development years either.<P>Take care. You really aren't an ogre!<BR>

bonnet,<P>I agree with honey.west. You are being way to hard on yourself. You have legitimate reasons for not wanted her around your kids. Being nice to them means nothing if she is a terrible role model. And I don't understand why you said that you didn't dislike her - it sure sounded from your previous post like you did, and with good reason.<P>Much as some people may want it to, the relationship between two people who have children together will never be just a business relationship. You still have certain moral obligations to each other and to the children. Anything that affects the children IS your business.<P>

{{{{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I like the basic premise of your letter...and the edits the others have made...Me personaly get stuck in sorryitis...That is why when I apologise I state that I would like to make amends, by eliminating that behavior, and expressing my self in the future in less judgemental way towards you, if you can, please forgive me for my actions...<P>Just my 2 cents...<P>Love Ya,<P>Bill

I like the letter with the edits suggested.. I think it takes a good person to realize they made a mistake then admit to it.. <P>arm6868@yahoo.com

Your letter is good - very apologetic, maybe even too much so. It's true, you did over react and do and say things that now, you wish you hadn't. Things that probably were not fair.<P>His choice in this woman, should not impact on you. Really, who it is should not be an issue, the real issue is that there is a woman that he is involved with. There is always something (Probably almost everything) that we can hate about the person that our spouse has become involved in - but that should not make us feel any less about ourselves. We need to put some blame where it is due - on the spouse that did the cheating. I do kind of get a little bit tired of the victim in an affair shouldering much of the blame for some one else's selfishness.<P>Having said all that - I am sure you wouldn't like anyone that your H was involved with. I am sure I would hate anyone my wife might be involved with. The fact that the kids like her, to me is a real positive. Just because she is a sl-t, and a b-----, does not mean she can not be kind and gentle with the children. If they like her, chances are she is treating them very well, and as a parent that should be our primary concern - although I do certainly understand how you feel.<P>Don't be too hard on yourself - you had a right to vent your frustrations. I understand where you were coming from.<P>richard

I would appeal to his sense of compassion (which he may have). Admit that it was a shock but that you would like him to understand your reaction was not a judgement of him or her, but a reaction to what you consider to be a betrayal. Don't deny your feelings on the matter; just apologize for your reaction only.

Can you please explain to me why you need to apologies for your actions.<P>Has he apologised for his to you and really meant them. NO because he has no idea of how or what you are feeling.<P>I never apologised I just never mentioned it again and have email contact about D.<P>I would seriously consider putting anything in writing, especially as it may come back one day and be used against you

rjs,<P>I think Jo is wanting to be spiritual about things...I can understand that myself....I have some bitterness inside me but I fefuse to show it...I want to be the better person about things...make sense??<P>Bill

I think you should send him the short version of the letter. I think the longer letter was therapuetic for you to write. But, all he needs to receive is the short version.<P>I agree that it is important to make amends in life especially since you do have the kids. So, I would definitely send him letter or if there is a reason you shouldn't have something in writing right now, maybe try calling him again rather than sending the letter.

That's alright but I'd take out the effusiveness, e.g. Deeply sorry, disgusted etc.<P>You're divorced? Keep it civil and professional, If your kids are alright you shouldn't care and neither should he.<P>If you want to go further state specific actions you belive are needed. Probably not warranted though.<P>Just trying to contribute.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonnet:<BR><B>H,<P>first of all, can I say how very sorry I am. Deeply sorry. There was no way that my behaviour was warranted, or called for. You do not deserve that from me.<P>I am disgusted with myself for my actions. And for my actions in front of our children.<P>As far as J**** goes, I am sorry for what I said. I did not dislike her when I knew her so long ago, and I don't dislike her now. I don't know her now. She also did not deserve what I said. The girls like her, and that should be my only concern. You did not need to hear my private thoughts on the matter. Again, I'm so sorry.<P>I have taken a good hard look at myself, and decided that I don't like myself very much. I obviously have some issues that I need to deal with, and deal with them I will.<P>I hope that one day you will forgive me.<P>How does something like that sound.<BR>I admit it's the first draft, and it's the first thing off my head this morning. After a very fitful, almost sleepless night. I still can't believe I reacted so stupidly. You're all right, he DOES NOT have to tell me what he is doing, or with whom. I think, with hindsight, maybe I HAVE been trying to control him, and using the most disgusting method to do that. By using the children. But I honestly didn't think I was. Why did someone not get that lump of wood and hit me!!!!!!!!! Someone wrote she's not an axe murderer - that's so true. The girls like her, she's nice to them. That should be my ONLY concern. Nothing else about the situation is my concern.<P>Thank you all so much for your support. And for helping me try to fix what I have stupidly done. <P>Jo</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Bill and others I do understand now why a letter may be sent. I agree with others keep is simple and keep out a lot of the emotion. writing the letter is theraputic for you, as my threapist would say now burn it he doesnt need to see it.<P>If you put something in writing make it professional and non emotional.<P>Next time you want to abuse him and OW write a letter then burn it