My not soon enough X has become the master of avoidance. Despite the past 1 yr and a half of lies and cheating, etc. He moved last Nov with the premise he would be home in a couple of weeks...(he took a job 3000 miles away) and would come home every weekend. I have not seen him since. We did have one conversation where I asked him what we should do about his not wanting to come home..he said he wanted a divorce...and that was the last he has said of it. <BR>I have filed, he hasn't been served yet, but it is coming up soon. I am the one who is packing his stuff, paying the bills, (he gives me a little money each month) and will be filing our taxes. I have my own career and am financially secure.<BR>He called 2 weeks ago after receiving his b-day card crying...said he would come out this weekend. Yesterday I learned that he was maybe thinking of coming next weekend...<BR>not asking me if that weekend was OK, after he said he was coming this weekend. <P>I am at the point where I am tired...I am tired of the roller coaster. Hell even saying yes let's get a divorce is not motivating him...I am at a loss. <P>It is hard enough the sh*t he has put me through and now he has just run...he won't file for divorce...it's kinda like we are breaking up...no compassion or reverance for what remains and my need to move on.<P>I am pretty upset with him for this...<P><BR>Am I crazy? Shouldn't he want to come back and get his things? <P>

(((cpickel)))<P>I know a little of what you are going through, and what I put my XW through. <P>I was the avoidant one. Now the tables are turned and now she is the avoidant one. <P>There may be no objective reason why he is doing this, and hardly any subjective reason. He may not allow himself to (or even be able to) feel what is going on inside him. The result is paralysis.<P>I know it is <I>impossible</I> not to take this personally. I hope you can understand that no more than about 5% is <I>you</I>, the rest is <I>him</I>. Compassion for him is hard to find right now, but I hope you will find it. <P>We, here, have compassion for you, and what he is putting you through.<P>Please, tell him how you need decency from him now, and explain to him what that decency would be. Give him at least the opportunity to be decent, communicated without lovebusters and in unambiguous terms, with the request that if he <I>can't</I> meet something, for <I>whatever reason</I>, he let you know. <P>You may not get anything back. But at least you will know you've tried your best.<P>___________________________________________<P>My shrink said once "You can't <I>not</I> communicate." Silence is a communication, but of course it's ambiguous.<P>My XW has unfinished business she was eager to finish with me, but since I revealed her family secret (as minimally as possible, and only to someone who <I>needed</I> to know, and without even naming myself or her)--or rather, after I told her I wanted to work with her on finding a way to out it; she has gone silent (well, there was one e-mail from her after the request, but it was not on that subject--since I went ahead and <I>did</I> it, only silence). E-mails go unanswered, as does her cell phone. I will <I>not</I> harass her. My communication attempts will be extremely limited in frequency, and will never be unfriendly or demanding in tone. But I <I>will</I> keep reaching out.

Thanks Sisyphus.<BR>I understand the paralysis. I have had it for a couple of weeks now...I do feel compassion for him...but I am also upset with him.<P>I understand that he knows what he is throwing away. It is him that is doing it. I may be filing and packing his stuff, cancelling credit cards etc. But it is he who crossed the line then ran...<P>Funny I still get these polite e-mails from him like we are good friends. He signs them with pet names etc. He hasn't told his family...my niece from his side called me to help her with a report. she is clueless about our separation. she said that her mom has our pictures all over the house...I just don't get it.<BR>But it isn't for me to get or not. He has made his choices. And like you said, quoted, silence is communication. <P>I am tired of being the one to bring up the topic...remember that movie where they whisper "cancer" I feel like that is what he is doing...but he can't even say the word<BR>He has only said divorce once...<P>I was thinking of getting a storage bin and putting his things in that, then sending him the key. This way I am moving on...<P>I need to move on...and I feel that his lack of participation and being 3000 miles away and statements of next week I will come,,,no next week or 2 weeks or ...forget it...who needs it...?<P>I used to feel love for him...I feel nothing...I am numb when I see pictures of us. I don't even recognize him as having been my husband...is this normal?<BR>Is this a phase?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cpickel:<BR><B>Funny I still get these polite e-mails from him like we are good friends. He signs them with pet names etc.<P>I used to feel love for him...I feel nothing...I am numb when I see pictures of us. I don't even recognize him as having been my husband...is this normal?<BR>Is this a phase? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You have "rewritten your marital history". And I know how his seeming cheer and use of "pet names" stings. My XW did this <I>in person</I> after we were locked into divorce. It seemed she felt free to take a friendly attitude again. Believe me, it stung. I felt it was so <I>mocking</I> ... I still feel mocked by her calling my condo a "killer bachelor pad". Perhaps it is <I>intentional, vicious mockery</I> ... but we have to be willing to give the other side the benefit of the doubt, however hard that may be. I see my wife as having employed whatever desperate psychological mechanisms she could in order to shield herself from the pain she must have known she was cauing me. <P>I think your STBXH is doing the same. The question is: how do <I>we</I> respond to that? Do we project back what will to them be inexplicable anger? Or do we understand it for what it is and act like reasonable people. I know just how tough the choice is now, believe me. I think you will be a better person for looking inside yourself to see that what you are feeling about him is coloring how you view what he <I>does</I> manage to do, which is evidently all he <I>can</I> do right now. <P>After the divorce, I quickly reached a point where I could communicate in e-mail, but calls were too painful. She could only catch me by just showing up and going to the concierge--when the conceirge appeared on my <I>Caller ID</I>, I would pick up, and of course she would be downstairs. Ready to come up. Ready to undertake what I saw as a disrespectful inspection of my apartment. Ready to pick through the boxes I had prepared for her and <I>take only what she wanted</I>, leaving me to decide what to do with the rest of it. I'd keep it ... because the next time she would take a little more, and I didn't want her to be disappointed by me having thrown something away. I've put them down in my storage unit now. <P>We know so little about each other's lives now. When at one time we <I>were</I> each other's lives. It's hard to take, I know.

I haven't told him that I have filed for divorce. <P>It does sting. I wish it didn't but it does. About the only real feeling I feel towards him. <P>I honestly believe I will never see him again. This stings too. I feel as if his inability to deal with this and drop it onto me is more selfish than the affair and lies. I guess I am back in that angry stage...<P>It has to stop...my mental well being is at stake...this isn't because he loves me this is his inability to deal with his actions...<P>I am planning a vacation in a few weeks hopefully this will help me clear my head...<P>What is sad is this is his MO...a repeated pattern in his life...he returns years later to attempt to deal...but he can't so he runs...I was naive...I never thought he would do this to me...he loved me right? <BR>Funny...someone told me that the universe gives you signs...and unless you read and listen to them it will continue to give you signs...until finally it will get thrown in your face if need be...apparently it is in my face.<BR>I am not sure why I am wavering about this. These are his decisions...I should just pack his stuff and ship it off to a storage unit...this way he gets to continue with this MO in tact and I get to move on. <BR>Sad how someone you loved to the core of your being...can hurt you to the core of your being...I just feel it is time for me to start healing.

Why have you kept the filing a secret?<P>You are robbing yourself of peace by not telling him what you did and why you did it. You are prolonging your pain, and delaying his <I>wake up call</I>. The universe will throw things in our faces ... and knowing that you have filed will be the universe throwing it in <I>his face</I> that things have got to be dealt with. <P>Left in the dark, they mushroom to unmanageable proportions. <I>You</I> are doing it too. It's what you wanted to do, and you did it ... but you can't communicate that you have done it? C'mon. No matter what you're telling yourself, what it's really doing is delaying your ability to start healing. <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 07, 2001).]

Most Excellent point Sis...!!

I have grapled with this myself...the fact that I haven't told him...<P>I have my reasons for not telling him...but I am ready to tell him now. <P>I am thinking about calling him tonight. Funny in our last conversation he told me that it can be as friendly or as ugly as I want it to be...<P>thanks for validating what I have been thinking..I just needed to do this in my time...

What are you <I>actually</I> communicating to our husband? You haven't told him that you filed for divorce, have you told him how you <I>feel</I>?<P>I think you should be honest with him about your intentions and your needs. If that means packing his stuff into a storage bin, fine. If that means taking some initiative and going to see him where <I>he</I> is, fine. (He can run, but can he hide?) Figure out what you need, and do it. Just do it openly and honestly.<P>But it doesn't sound to me like divorce is a wise move for either of you. Obviously, your husband is feeling conflicted. <I>Part</I> of this may be because he doesn't know where he stands with you. And as for you, you say that you once loved him but now you feel numb. Yes, that's a phase, and it's a very bad time to be making life-altering decisions such as divorce.<P>Are you getting counseling? I don't think you should pursue this divorce until you understand your own feelings and your own mind. Perhaps serving your husband with the papers could be a useful wakeup call (or perhaps not - who can know?). But by all means get some help before you do anything rash!<BR>

I'm dropping out of this thread. Not because of anything wrong with <I>cpickel</I> or what she's doing or not doing. It's just too close to situations I have faced (or refused to face), and it is frankly shaking me up. <P>Best wishes to you, <I>cpickel</I>. I hope you and your STBXH can do better than I and mine have done.

You know I have been honest with him. Asked him to go to counseling, asked him to go away for the weekend. Told him that I loved him and what I got in response was that he shouldn't be married. He left me with the words of I will see you in a couple of weeks months ago...<P>I have been to counseling. But you know he is the one refusing to come home and work on this, I have been left with a household to run (no kids thank God) social obligations to explain, a hellish commute and only to learn that this was his intention all along...to slip out...he takes no responsibility or ownership of what he has done....kinda like how long do you wait to date after the divorce...well how long do you wait after you are told the spouse wants a divorce before someone does something.<P>So a year a half later...we are still at a stand still. He sends me little notes...and yet cannot look me in the eye It's all passive <P>Rash, maybe I am but I believe I have actually been very patient...<BR>I have been straight with him 100% but it means nothing to him...sure I haven't told him I have filed...but this is me taking care of me no? If I tell him and I break down...this is not good for me...<BR>Meanwhile he is out dating...I don't need this...<BR>So my sin, I haven't told my H that I am the one who filed for the divorce he says he wants...He knows where he stands with me...if he doesn't then he is further into the fog and perhaps the bermuda triangle is involved. <P>My counselor told me to run from this relationship long ago...that it was toxic to me...I am just now getting to the point where I am standing up for myself...not being the doormat...not being accessable...<P>

Your husband sounds like he has very low self-esteem, and I wonder if he <I>really</I> wants a divorce, or whether he just said that (one time!) because he was feeling particularly down. He is obviously avoidant, and obviously immature, and obviously irresponsible, but to me it looks like he <I>wants</I> to get close to you but is <I>afraid</I> to do so. He's too weak to leave and too scared to stay.<P>When your counselor says that the relationship is toxic for you, I'm guessing that she's not quite right. <I>My</I> marriage was toxic for me in the sense that relationship problems triggered depression that I had to fight for years. But you know what? That was <I>my</I> problem. The toxicity was only indirectly caused by my marriage. My real problem was that I was burying <I>my own</I> harmful feelings inside myself, instead of dealing with them in a healthy manner. My wife <I>was not responsible</I> for that.<P>So, you're right, you need to take care of yourself. You can't do anything for your husband unless you can stand emotionally on your own two feet <I>whether you want to or not</I>. Right now, you're separated. Great. That gives you a chance to focus on yourself without the interference of your husband's immature behavior. If you're at your wit's end, go to Plan B. Tell your husband what you need from him, and then leave him alone until he can give it to you or until you don't need it any more. If you need to write all this in a letter because you can't handle telling him directly, then write a letter. Figure out what boundaries you need for now, and enforce them.<P>Personally, I just don't see how divorce is going to help you with any of that.<P>You know, the funny thing about patience is that the only time we have a problem with it is when we feel blocked, prevented from doing something we need or want to do. If we would just get on with what we <I>can</I> do, I don't think we would have nearly so much of a problem with impatience, and <I>sometimes</I> we might even find that by the time we <I>really</I> need what we were impatient for, we don't have to wait any longer.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited February 07, 2001).]

So H and I talked tonight. I told him that I filed for divorce that the papers were final and that I had them...I would be sending them and would appreciate him signing them and sending them back. He was silent when I told him this...but I bulldozed through it. We discussed a bit about what was happening in our lives and then we got off the phone. He made a slip and called me honey during the call. He really stumbled and went silent. I just kept going.<P>We got off the phone and like 2 minutes later he calls me back. Said that a kitty that we once had walked into his apartment. I was confused. Apparently it was a kitty that looked like the one we had that died of a strange disease. H had given her to me when we first met and he was traveling a lot...to keep me company. He started to cry...and kept saying what should I do? He said he didn't know who else to call..I was the first person he thought of.<P>This just is so wrong. You know I read the post where AgoodmaninTexas saw signs...I was a bit synical ( a common mood for me these days). I just am at a loss.<P>He won't make a move... he now knows I mean business...

Talk about signs.... <P>After talking to the STBXW Sunday afternoon I Hit a Porche Boxter. You can't get a bigger sign than that.. <P>Take care of YOU. And let HIM get the signs..

Hey and I drive a Porche Boxster, but mine isn't red