Has anyone had the spouse get a dose of reality when the papers were served?<P>My STBX e-mails me and is friendly, he has not told his parents...I got a valentines card from the yesterday...<P>just wondering...not hoping...it just seems he is way out there...deep in the fog...<P>

I <I>felt</I> like I had just gotten a big dose of <I>unreality</I> when the papers were served on me. Denial is a natural first reaction.<BR>

If you feel like they would be "a dose of reality" and there's something he could do to make you stop, then I think it's too early to file them in the first place. <P>He doesn't feel safe being near you or communicating with you about anything "heavy". That can change. Not easily, not overnight, not without his willingness to make a commitment to hang in there even when he's uncomfortable.<P>Physiologically, he is less equipped to handle "heavy" subjects than you are. If his "fight or flight" response is aroused, he is not as capable as you are of calming himself without having taken decisive action. This is an evolutionary holdover from the male's role as hunter and protector. You are more capable of self-soothing. This is a holdover from the female's role as caregiver--unless you're calmed down, your milk won't flow for a baby.<P>My point would be, his avoidance is natural, even if it isn't the best thing for the relationship (the other alternative may be for him to blow up, and my guess is he hates to do that). If you would like him to straighten up and fly right, you need to learn this stuff and how to get around it. And couples do learn how to get around it by taking half-hour breaks when one or the other starts to flood like that--Gottman says you're not being heard by the other person anyway if their heart rate has exceeded 95 beats per minute. <P>At one moment, you say you are done, and the next moment it seems quite clear that you have a point to make. And a person doesn't care about making a point to someone they are done with. <P>I would think that a message of love and acceptance might get a positive response. It's Valentines Day.

Well you did make me laugh about the milk flowing. I understand about the running etc. I do, but I just can't deal with his avoidance anymore...his bills are stacking up...he is now incurring more work for me...hell he won't even committ to getting his stuff. It is blatant avoidance... I am done...it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt. It hurts to know the person you loved can hurt you and then abandon you then leave you to clean up the mess...with all the memories all around ... <BR>I think that people can do things to others that while you can forgive them you just can't go down that road again...<BR>I am not hopeful of anything with regards to my H. In fact the only expectation I have is that he will continue to run...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cpickel:<BR><B>In fact the only expectation I have is that he will continue to run...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why not form the expectation that he will do just 1% better than that. Treat him as though that expectation will be met. See what happens. Maybe nothing. Maybe something. Hell, I don't know. <P>Maybe treat this as a lost marriage, but see if you can treat it as an experiment in improving your relationships with difficult people in general.<P>It's easy to do what people expect of us when their expectations aren't that high. And gradualism is how any habit, good or bad, is built.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cpickel:<BR><B>Well you did make me laugh about the milk flowing.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The specific mechanism is the release of a soothing brain hormone called oxytocin.<P>

You are good at playing devils advocate...you know I have had higher expectations...like when he said he was coming out last weekend to pick up his stuff. I thought I would have the D papers here rather than serving him...and then he said he wasn't sure about coming out. Maybe this weekend. Then I find he is still shopping on my credit cards, which we had a verbal agreement he would not use. I had every intention of cancelling his usage just hadn't gotten to that part of the list...and whamo...this isn't fog this is disregard for me...while I do fine financially, things are tight now and all is left for me to do...taxes, divorce, etc. how can I have higher expectations. He has not shown me that he is capable of living up to anything he says that comes across his lips. <P>Guess it's a good thing I am not breast feeding <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cpickel:<BR><B>Then I find he is still shopping on my credit cards, which we had a verbal agreement he would not use. I had every intention of cancelling his usage just hadn't gotten to that part of the list.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yuck. I would chastise you for letting that happen, but my XW is still on one of my cards, and I still use it even if she doesn't. Then again, I am still on her car loan, and she hasn't gotten me off the hook either. <P>Do a favor for both of you and give him notice you're canceling the cards when you do it. And ask <I>nicely</I> for the money. It can't hurt!<P>