My W is convinced she just doesnt want to be married anymore. She still loves me she says as a friend and a father, not as a husband. Specific Questions about our Marriage would be helpful.<BR>The only thing W has said since our seperation is that when D was born My life went on as normal and her and D sat in background. Also gave me the I dont love you as a husband BS. Had problems intamitly about 3 years ago she said something is just wrong I dont know what it is... I know what it was it was me not doing the little loving things to make her feel loved as a spouse. We were busy working on our first house and really turned into just a friend alot. We both work an awful lot. I have not been the best husband I am the first to admit, but W never said she like to see anything change, she thought it was just something she was going through. I know what I have done wrong in this relationship now...I just want a chance to correct it. She told a friend of hers once at the start she was going to take me back but decided against it, as she started seeing counslor. she also told SIL that she did have remorse about not giving me a second chance. The other night she told SIL and a friend, that things will be fine with us once my husband finds a new wife and she finds a new husband, that hurt. This was right after she asked SIL if she had seen me lately and how good i looked after losing a bunch of weight. (40lbs) to be exact. enough I hope to get you guys started, I will answer any more questions anyone has. I need my W back..<BR>

Plan A. Don't push in person or on the phone, but let Hallmark and FTD be your friends whenever the moment seems right. Do get to a counselor who can be a "backchannel" to the other counselor and to your STBXW. <P>Don't let anger or hurt overtake you. Do suspect that there was at least a lurking EA--usually <I>something</I> causes a teetering spouse to tip over. If it wasn't <I>you</I>, it was <I>them</I>. <P>Allow yourself to breathe deeply, and remember patience is a virtue. Don't do what I did and rush for a replacement. No matter how good the new, you'll be nostalgic for the old unless your heart is really stone. Since you're here, I'm assuming it's flesh-and-blood.<P>If something makes you happy, do it. If something seems unfair, make your case, but don't let it consume you. Remember that an enemy is often just a friend who wants you to do something their way and not yours. Especially remember it when <I>she</I> seems to view <I>you</I> as the enemy and you're on the verge of buckling regarding something important to you. If you buckle, it'll be a long time before you'll really swallow it. If you're just beaten--you can move on.<P>Remember that reconciliation works best when neither spouse can look back and feel they were dealt with unfairly.<P>Finally, surround yourself with good friends, comfort and cleanliness, and activities that you can pursue with buddies or alone. If you think you might need an antidepressant, go get it before the need becomes glaring.<P>This could be merely a speed bump. It could be the start of a long, bumpy, rutted section of road. But it is not a dead end.

Daveyboy:<P>You have admitted that you knew you were being the best of Husbands...if you knew that why did you continue? <P>My H also knew he wasn't being H of the year, and he figured oh well. My H told me, he did all his romancing and charming during the dating period. Once I said, "I do." He didn't feel he needed to do more. I could go on and on. <P>If you never gave your W flowers much during the marriage; doing so now will only cause resentment. I know. I always loved flowers, but H never gave them to me. When I told him I wanted a divorce, he started bringing me home dozens of roses every week. It didn't make me change my mind; it made me angry. All the times, I would have loved roses, he wouldn't do it. I looked at those roses as a bribe...too little too late. <P>I would try my best to be man she fell in love with in the first place. Any complete personality changes...and she will be suspect. This will take time and more patience than you ever thought you had...but it's worth a try.<P>

It took me to get it with the Bomb of seperation to realize that i had been a Bad Husband. Yes this is good I need more ideas on things to do and how to handle situations. I am thinking about entering a program for single parenting. My fear is Wife will look at this as a good thing. That i am getting along with my life and she can get along with hers. This is the way she is thinking now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>If you never gave your W flowers much during the marriage; doing so now will only cause resentment. I know. I always loved flowers, but H never gave them to me. When I told him I wanted a divorce, he started bringing me home dozens of roses every week. It didn't make me change my mind; it made me angry. All the times, I would have loved roses, he wouldn't do it. I looked at those roses as a bribe...too little too late.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Each individual is different. And Daveyboy ought to try and defuse that <B><I>double bind</I></B> (damned if you do and damned if you don't) thinking by including an acknowledgement that the cards, flowers, etc. should have come sooner, if only he had realized what was at stake. <P>You will not <I>cause</I> any additional resentment by timely and sincere expressions, only bring it to the surface where it can dissipate. Eventually, your attentions will get through to her if you are sincere and if you do not become exhausted.<P>Let Lonelysoul's statement be a warning: sincerity will triumph where lavishness founders.

any comments on my last post?<P>Daveyboy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daveyboy:<BR><B>My fear is Wife will look at this as a good thing.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Anything you do that your wife views as <I>good</I> is something you <I>should</I> do. Not everything she <I>says</I> she would view as good (like you going and finding someone else) would actually be viewed that way. <P>If you go to a single-parenting class, she will see that as a reasonable and responsible choice for you to make, given the way things now stand. It is always beneficial to have her view you as reasonable and responsible. It will also cause twinges in her to see you acknowledging openly that you believe the marriage is over. <P>As long as you are clingy, it merely heightens her desire to get away from you, so those cards and flowers shouldn't reflect any aspect of <I>clinginess</I>. If you're not sure, then have someone else vet anything you're preparing to send.<P>The point is to always appear forward-looking and fully cognizant of the situation as it actually stands. And not to appear to be in denial of her choice to leave, nor nostalgic for the relationship that existed before (a relationship that she obviously thought was inadequate). You may, however, refer back to places where you believe you were <I>wrong</I> if you are concrete about how you would correct those errors.

Daveyboy:<P>It's important to listen to what your wife is telling you. You can't argue with how someone feels. It is frustrating when you know how you feel/how you are thinking and someone is telling you that you don't feel that way. <P>You said she claims she and D took a back seat in your life. Were they in the back burner for most of the marriage, or was it only when you were building the house? <P>From what I can gather, your W liked the romance and when that slowed, she fell out of love? I don't know...I'm asking.<P> <P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> Anything you do that your wife views as <I>good</I> is something you <I>should</I> do. Not everything she <I>says</I> she would view as good (like you going and finding someone else) would actually be viewed that way. <P>If you go to a single-parenting class, she will see that as a reasonable and responsible choice for you to make, given the way things now stand. It is always beneficial to have her view you as reasonable and responsible. It will also cause twinges in her to see you acknowledging openly that you believe the marriage is over. <P>As long as you are clingy, it merely heightens her desire to get away from you, so those cards and flowers shouldn't reflect any aspect of <I>clinginess</I>. If you're not sure, then have someone else vet anything you're preparing to send.<P>The point is to always appear forward-looking and fully cognizant of the situation as it actually stands. And not to appear to be in denial of her choice to leave, nor nostalgic for the relationship that existed before (a relationship that she obviously thought was inadequate). You may, however, refer back to places where you believe you were <I>wrong</I> if you are concrete about how you would correct those errors.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I want to correct these errors and no how to, I am a charmer believe me and a lover, I havent forgot how to do these things, I just havent for a while. I could go out right now and charm many women (dont think im being big headed hear please) and win them over.<BR>The only one I want to wim over is my wife and I cannot do this with out her wanting me too. How do I make here believe in me again and want me to win her back, give me the chance to prove to her I know what mistakes i have made and am ready to change. I want us to become a family to the fullest extent. Not run around and play Softball and party etc. My W and D took a back seat after D was born. My activities didnt stop and hers did. you are right W liked romance I did not give her any and she fell out of love with me. Once again . How do I make here believe in me again and want me to win her back<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR>[B]Daveyboy:<P>It's important to listen to what your wife is telling you. You can't argue with how someone feels. It is frustrating when you know how you feel/how you are thinking and someone is telling you that you don't feel that way. <BR>Is there someway or some procedure to change thier mind? <BR>IF so what are the processes?<P>

No, there is no prcedure; unless of course, you know someone who can brainwash. People...spouses, parents, kids, bosses, don't always behave the way we want them too. It would be nice, but it doesn't work that way. You cannot make someone feel warm and fuzzy about you if they don't. You can talk someone into staying with you because they should due to their committment and obligation to the marriage, because of the kids, because of finances, but is that what you want for yourself? <P>

LS<BR>so what are you telling me than, give up theres no hope?, just throw my family away?<BR>I understand theirs still my Daughter, but its just not the same without her mother around.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daveyboy:<BR><B>Is there someway or some procedure to change thier mind? <BR>IF so what are the processes?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There are two kinds of conditioning, <I>Pavlovian</I> and <I>Skinnerian</I>. Pavlovian provides both rewards and punishments. It works only for lower animals. Human beings are typically unmoved by any punishment that hasn't reached an intolerable level (read: torture). <P>Skinnerian involves reward only. Nothing is done by the researcher except to note behavior and <I>immediately</I> provide reward to reinforce <I>correct</I> behavior only. Whenever STBXW does anything that seems positive to you, whether by accident or force of habit, or whatever--you need to provide an immediate reward. You will need to determine what the reward will be. Obviously, something she wants; preferably something she can't get elsewhere. <P>Of course, it helps if the STBXW is still willing to deal with you. Otherwise, there's no basis for which to provide rewards.<P>

No, I'm not saying give up all hope. But, you can't make someone stay married to you if they positively don't want to. <P>

What do you suggest i do?

I suggest you and your wife sit down and have a talk...a long talk. Communication is key. I don't know what the real issues are, so it is hard for me to say what you should do. You need to really talk to your W...afterall she holds the key to this mystery.<BR>

Daveyboy,<P>Read about Plan A and meeting emotional needs. You have to find out what emotional needs you are neglecting and work on correcting them. <P>There is an emotional needs (EN) questionaire on the web page. You basically have to go back to win your wife's affection the way you did when you first met her.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

<BR>Hi Daveyboy,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daveyboy:<BR><B>What do you suggest i do?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I suggest, first off, that you post on the Emotional Needs board if you want to recover your marriage, there are a lot of people there with recovery plans in action.<P>It is very hard to make progress fast with a totally uncooperative spouse. Progress with MB is based on eliminating lovebusters, and meeting emotional needs. These differ from individual to individual, and are indentified by questionaries that are available here on the site. But if you can't get your w to fill them out, try to fill them out the way you would think she would, with past complaints and arguments fresh in your mind.<P>It is hard to meet many emotional needs when you are in a bad place, but it is easy to eliminate lovebusters, and that is the first step anyway.<P>Like someone else said, when one partner makes such a strong and sudden move, it is very often a sign that they have another potential partner, if not in action perhaps in mind. It is important to assess that so you jknow what you are up against. Any suspicions there?<P>Mike<BR>

_______You say ________________<BR>I want to correct these errors and no how to, I am a charmer believe me and a lover, I havent forgot how to do these things, I just havent for a while. I could go out right now and charm many women <BR>_______________________________<P>This is an interesting statement. You know how to do these yet you got lazy and didn't. That's okay, I think we all fall lax once in a while.<P>Listen, I'm kind of in the same boat as you only I'm the wife... what I found to be helpful is that this process has been immensely revealing to the depth I need to go for healing and transformation in the relationship. You indicate that you're a charmer... that means you can turn it on and yes, your wife knows this... So, it's going to take a sincere approach and introspection for change. She knows this (as does my husband who constantly says, "yeah, those are nice words... but show me over time some consistency." So, though he's not wanting to get back together, I've decided to use two approaches:<BR>a) fill up love tank (avoid love busters)<BR>b) tough love (Dr. Dobson) - where I acknowledge and truly set him free... it has to be real and not a con game though where you say, 'I'm going to let you go' and then break down again later. <P>You really need to be prayerful and introspective as you do this. The key is RESPECT yourself. Dr. Dobson says that if you stand up for yourself and turn slightly away, the partner will automatically turn back and say 'hmmmm'. But, they may try to bait you into your old behavior patterns. This is why before you take this approach you must have thoroughly thought it through and be consistent (have integrity - what you say you mean). Then, YES, you must let her go. Start the Single-parenting classes because you MAY be a single parent. I'm starting a "DivorceCare" class even though we haven't yet separated. He's looking at me wondering why I'm just getting on with my life. Yet, he's also very cautious... is this for real or just an act of manipulation. It has to be real... I may be divorced. And I want to be prepared... if you don't become a single parent, you will have gone through the course and you can certainly be sympathetic to those who are... this is what God calls us to - be compassionate and sometimes (most of the time) it's through our pain that we can show and express the most compassion.<P>So, whether you become single again or not, stand on your own two feet, let your wife go and TRUST God not your circumstances... <P>All the best...

_______You say ________________<BR>I want to correct these errors and no how to, I am a charmer believe me and a lover, I havent forgot how to do these things, I just havent for a while. I could go out right now and charm many women <BR>_______________________________<P>This is an interesting statement. You know how to do these yet you got lazy and didn't. That's okay, I think we all fall lax once in a while.<P>Listen, I'm kind of in the same boat as you only I'm the wife... what I found to be helpful is that this process has been immensely revealing to the depth I need to go for healing and transformation in the relationship. You indicate that you're a charmer... that means you can turn it on and yes, your wife knows this... So, it's going to take a sincere approach and introspection for change. She knows this (as does my husband who constantly says, "yeah, those are nice words... but show me over time some consistency." So, though he's not wanting to get back together, I've decided to use two approaches:<BR>a) fill up love tank (avoid love busters)<BR>b) tough love (Dr. Dobson) - where I acknowledge and truly set him free... it has to be real and not a con game though where you say, 'I'm going to let you go' and then break down again later. <P>You really need to be prayerful and introspective as you do this. The key is RESPECT yourself. Dr. Dobson says that if you stand up for yourself and turn slightly away, the partner will automatically turn back and say 'hmmmm'. But, they may try to bait you into your old behavior patterns. This is why before you take this approach you must have thoroughly thought it through and be consistent (have integrity - what you say you mean). Then, YES, you must let her go. Start the Single-parenting classes because you MAY be a single parent. I'm starting a "DivorceCare" class even though we haven't yet separated. He's looking at me wondering why I'm just getting on with my life. Yet, he's also very cautious... is this for real or just an act of manipulation. It has to be real... I may be divorced. And I want to be prepared... if you don't become a single parent, you will have gone through the course and you can certainly be sympathetic to those who are... this is what God calls us to - be compassionate and sometimes (most of the time) it's through our pain that we can show and express the most compassion.<P>So, whether you become single again or not, stand on your own two feet, let your wife go and TRUST God not your circumstances... <P>All the best...